Advice needed - Pre-Court Settlement offer

[Thortuga]

Hi,

On July 4th I travelled from Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood, on a peak open return, which I bought from the ticket machine that morning.

The outward part of my ticket was collected at Filton on arrival. Over the course of the day I misplaced my wallet, a long with my return ticket.

Since I knew I wouldn't be able to get my wallet back until the next day I travelled to Bristol without it and approached staff at the station to explain my situation. They were very understanding and issued me with an unpaid fine notice, which they assured me I could challenge with my ticket.

Due to other constraints on my time I haven't addressed the unpaid notice as yet and today I received a letter offering pre-court settlement! On top of this, upon closer inspection of the unpaid fare notice, I've noticed it was completed incorrectly and states I was travelling from Bristol to Filton without a ticket, when in fact it is the opposite.

I still have the the return part of my ticket dated the 4th of July, surely this is enough to prove that I have paid my fare and put an end to this.

Any advice people can offer would be greatly appreciated.

 

[najaB]

They were very understanding and issued me with an unpaid fine notice, which they assured me I could challenge with my ticket.

What they issued you was an unpaid fare notice - in effect nothing more than an invoice. There was nothing to challenge as there was no accusation made.

Due to other constraints on my time I haven't addressed the unpaid notice as yet and today I received a letter offering pre-court settlement!

Your fare is still unpaid, so they are offering you the opportunity to pay it plus a portion of costs, rather than have to go through the courts.

On top of this, upon closer inspection of the unpaid fare notice, I've noticed it was completed incorrectly and states I was travelling from Bristol to Filton without a ticket, when in fact it is the opposite.

That doesn't really matter. If this case gets as far as the Court it would be a simple thing for the prosecutor to update the charge on the day.

I still have the the return part of my ticket dated the 4th of July, surely this is enough to prove that I have paid my fare and put an end to this.

It proves you paid a fare, but the fact remains that you didn't have a ticket when you were asked to show it. So, as far as GWR is concerned, you hadn't paid your fare. Possession of a ticket for a journey other that the one you were undertaking is of little import.

Any advice people can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Pay the pre-court settlement amount, and if you still feel aggrieved, raise a complaint with GWR's customer service team.

 

[Thortuga]

Thanks for the advice.

Possession of a ticket for a journey other that the one you were undertaking is of little import.

But I am in possession of the ticket for the journey I was undertaking ...

 

[Hadders]

My advice is to pay it and chalk it up to experience.

It really isn't worth risking a court appearance over something like this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, you should pay and try not to forget if such a thing comes up again.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The only thing to add to whats already been said is that the only thing that has "gone wrong" here is the OP not dealing with the Unpaid Fare Notice.

This has cost him money.

 

[AlterEgo]

OP: Have you, at any point, been asked to give your version of events?

As it stands they're asking you to pay the fare and costs for a journey which you had and showed a valid ticket for - Bristol to Filton Abbey Wood.

 

[Gareth Marston]

OP: Have you, at any point, been asked to give your version of events?

As it stands they're asking you to pay the fare and costs for a journey which you had and showed a valid ticket for - Bristol to Filton Abbey Wood.

He explained to staff who correctly issued him an Unpaid Fare Notice as he had no means to pay and could not produce the ticket purchased earlier. So far so good however when the Unpaid Fare Notice arrived instead of acting on it and sending in the RTN portion and a covering letter explaining the situation he "choose" to not deal with it (reason fairly irrelevant) and its now been escalated.

 

[najaB]

But I am in possession of the ticket for the journey I was undertaking ...

You weren't in possession of it at the time. For all GWR knows you could have picked that ticket up from the floor after speaking to the inspectors. (Not that I'm saying that you did, just that you could have.)

 

[Thortuga]

Thank you everyone for the advice.

Alter Ego - I haven't been asked to give my version of events at any point. In fact, I've had no contact with GWR until they sent this letter.

I've contacted the prosecutions office at GWR to see what my options are, I'll update this thread with the outcome.

 

[AlterEgo]

He explained to staff who correctly issued him an Unpaid Fare Notice as he had no means to pay and could not produce the ticket purchased earlier. So far so good however when the Unpaid Fare Notice arrived instead of acting on it and sending in the RTN portion and a covering letter explaining the situation he "choose" to not deal with it (reason fairly irrelevant) and its now been escalated.

Mhmm. Was this recorded as evidence, in a statement which the OP was asked to sign?

Or was a UFN simply issued, as I suspect? The UFN is simply an invoice and not a contemporaneous record of what was said or what happened.

 

[BestWestern]

The OP has been issued witn a UFN. Not a Penalty Fare, nor an MG11 completed, merely an Unpaid Fare Notice (a PF is a definite possibility arriving at Temple Meads minus a ticket, so discretion has been shown here). The expectation with a UFN is that the recipient will independently make appropriate efforts to pay it. This is detailed, clearly and fully complete with all required information on how to make payment, on the notice itself. The process is not to sit on it and wait for the TOC to ask you for their money. They will make contact only if the notice is outstanding, at which point they are entitled to add costs as they are now having to persue a debt. Much the same as a debt collection agency would do.

The OP stated they were told they could challenge the notice, but then admits that they had other things to do which they deemed more important, and thus failed to either lodge an appeal or to pay the debt. Much as with an ignored parking ticket, the company are now chasing their money. Regretfully the OP is at fault here, it is likely that the chance to appeal has been and gone, and the best advice would probably be to pay the amount and move on.

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP stated they were told they could challenge the notice, but then admits that they had other things to do which they deemed more important, and thus failed to either lodge an appeal or to pay the debt. Much as with an ignored parking ticket, they company are now chasing their money. Regretfully the OP is at fault here, it is likely that the chance to appeal has been and gone, and the best advice would probably be to pay the amount and move on.

Indeed, though the company can't bring a claim for something the OP didn't do. He was asked under the UFN to pay for his fare between Bristol and Filton. He had a ticket and showed it, one assumes, on demand.

I am not sure the company can be sure of its success in court.

 

[island]

You’ve committed a criminal offence when you chose to join the train on your way back without a ticket. The staff exercised their discretion and did not report you for prosecution or issue a Penalty Fare, both of which were options open to them, but took the less serious course of issuing an unpaid fare notice. As you chose not to deal with the unpaid fare notice within the indicated time for doing so, the matter has escalated and is now being considered for prosecution.

You now need to pay the sum now demanded before it escalates further.

 

[najaB]

I am not sure the company can be sure of its success in court.

I'm confident that the error will be corrected before the case reaches the magistrate's desk. AFAIK, no summons has yet been requested.

 

[scrapy]

OP: Have you, at any point, been asked to give your version of events?

As it stands they're asking you to pay the fare and costs for a journey which you had and showed a valid ticket for - Bristol to Filton Abbey Wood.

No one's suggesting the op didn't pay but if I've read it correctly they were given the upfn for not being able to produce their ticket because it was left in a wallet. Presumably the OK signed the upfn agreeing to pay the amount outstanding or appeal within 21 days. As they did neither the matter is being pursued. In my opinion GWR are sure to win in court.

 

[scrapy]

OP: Have you, at any point, been asked to give your version of events?

As it stands they're asking you to pay the fare and costs for a journey which you had and showed a valid ticket for - Bristol to Filton Abbey Wood.

No one's suggesting the op didn't pay but if I've read it correctly they were given the upfn for not being able to produce their ticket because it was left in a wallet. Presumably the OK signed the upfn agreeing to pay the amount outstanding or appeal within 21 days. As they did neither the matter is being pursued. In my opinion GWR are sure to win in court.

The appeal stage that the OP missed was their opportunity to give their version of events. They chose not to.

 

[Thortuga]

Hi all,

As I said I would I am posting an update of how this case ended.

I explained the situation through E-mail and by post to the staff at GWR prosecutions.

The case was put on hold while my evidence was considered.

I have received a letter explaining that the case is now closed and that I would not have to pay anything as the ticket was enough evidence to show that the fare was paid.

Again, I thank you all for your advice.

 

[gray1404]

You are lucky for them to have set it aside for you. They were under no duty at all to do this as you were unable to produce a ticket when travelling. I think you might have benefited from their mix up in the correspondence. Thanks for posting the update.