Breich - Public Consultation on Station Closure

[edwin_m]

However, as repeatedly posted on here, Teesside Airport station is far too far from the terminal to be any use for air travellers, though IIRC it does offer a good view of the end of the runway. It's probably just as well that both the train service and the number of flights are so low, otherwise people would be turning up at the station trying to work out how to get to the airport. I presume when the station was opened, whatever airport buildings there were at the time were closer to it.

The Tees Valley Metro plan in around 2007 proposed moving the station to where the airport access road passes over the railway, still too far for people to walk with luggage but at least a shuttle bus would be possible (number of air travellers permitting). However I think it was expected to get its patronage largely from the surrounding business park rather than the airport itself.

 

[AndyW33]

It's probably just as well that both the train service and the number of flights are so low, otherwise people would be turning up at the station trying to work out how to get to the airport. I presume when the station was opened, whatever airport buildings there were at the time were closer to it.

Exactly so. The station was built at the closest point to the terminal entrance. Then the airport management relocated the terminal entrance, well the whole terminal, really.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Avoncliff is a halt, at least according to the sign on the platform (a newish one put there by the local user group I think).

It was opened as Avoncliff Halt on 9th July 1906.
It was officially renamed as Avoncliff on 5th May 1969

Unofficial signs that are erected by outside bodies are not officially recognised.

 

[Mordac]

I would not miss Breich if it went. I am glad to have visited it and do recall the gravel texture extending onto the platforms, as is the case at Altnabreac and Scotscalder IIRC. I hope that the closure happens fairly quickly and is not held up by NIMBYs.

Surely in this case they'd be IMBYS?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I did wonder about the type of hat that you were wearing...

...first they came for Breich station but I did not speak out because I was not the person who made one return trip a week to use it...

That is absolutely glorious.

There still are two of these still open on the national network on the Looe Valley Line:-
Coombe Junction Halt
St Keyne Wishing Well Halt

Renamed as part of a tourism-driven rebranding a few years ago I believe, before that they were plain old Coombe and St Keyne. They certainly didn't survive from the suffix cullings of the 1960s and 1970s.

Whats strange is that there doesn't seem to be a set criteria to close a station as for example...

I think the criteria are called geography and circumstance

 

[Trackbedjolly]

As this is a formal closure proposal it needs to follow the formal procedure whatever that may be. Is it a standard part of the closure procedure to have a public inquiry? If so the closure itself will end up costing MORE than the improvements needed to keep the station open. In that case what is the BCR for proceeding with the closure as opposed to going ahead with the infrastructure changes needed to keep the station open?
Basically I can't see that there is an economic case for going ahead with the closure procedure.

 

[Gathursty]

Surely in this case they'd be IMBYS?

Haha, of course yes!

 

[tsr]

I would not miss Breich if it went. I am glad to have visited it and do recall the gravel texture extending onto the platforms, as is the case at Altnabreac and Scotscalder IIRC. I hope that the closure happens fairly quickly and is not held up by NIMBYs.

A gravel platform does not a deserted station make. See also: Salfords.

 

[thenorthern]

As this is a formal closure proposal it needs to follow the formal procedure whatever that may be. Is it a standard part of the closure procedure to have a public inquiry? If so the closure itself will end up costing MORE than the improvements needed to keep the station open. In that case what is the BCR for proceeding with the closure as opposed to going ahead with the infrastructure changes needed to keep the station open?
Basically I can't see that there is an economic case for going ahead with the closure procedure.

The closing procedure may cost more than the modification works needed but I doubt it.

Network Rail have two advantages though in that its very hard to close a station if even 1 passenger in inconvenienced but now the can argue even if it causes inconvenience it still doesn't justify the cost of modification.

Secondly even if it did cost a huge amount to close the station ScotRail I think are paying £33k per year just to pay for the privilege of stopping at Breich.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

Is it really about saving a couple of million pounds on a project that is costing nearly fifty million or is it because 'the railway' wants to see it closed? Why has this only come out now once the contract has been let; it has not been mentioned earlier.
My point is that if there is a requirement to show a positive BCR in order for an investment to be made in opening a station why is it not necessary to go through a similar step for closing a station? It must be possible to place some form of economic value/social value on having a local station even with very limited services. Compare that with the cost of closing the station with replacement bus services vs the cost of stopping trains and one can then do an appraisal. In this case there is the avoidable cost of renewing the footbridge and platform upgrading which would probably swing the BCR in favour of closure.
That brings me back to the timing of proposing the closure. If it had not been for the electrification would NR still be proposing closure-I doubt it.

 

[Ianno87]

Is it really about saving a couple of million pounds on a project that is costing nearly fifty million or is it because 'the railway' wants to see it closed? Why has this only come out now once the contract has been let; it has not been mentioned earlier.
My point is that if there is a requirement to show a positive BCR in order for an investment to be made in opening a station why is it not necessary to go through a similar step for closing a station? It must be possible to place some form of economic value/social value on having a local station even with very limited services. Compare that with the cost of closing the station with replacement bus services vs the cost of stopping trains and one can then do an appraisal. In this case there is the avoidable cost of renewing the footbridge and platform upgrading which would probably swing the BCR in favour of closure.
That brings me back to the timing of proposing the closure. If it had not been for the electrification would NR still be proposing closure-I doubt it.

Don't know whether it has been done here, but it can be done.

You can in theory compare the BCR of the *whole* electrification scheme in two scenarios:
-Including the costs of the works at Breich and retention of services
-Excluding the costs of the works at Breich, reduced benefits arising from removal of services at Breich, but *including journey time benefits to non-Breich passengers whose journeys are sped up* and *excluding the ongoing cost of maintaining the station*

For a lightly used station like Breich with little if any prospect of growth, the latter will win 99% of the time.

For NR, there would be little incentive to close the station were it not for the electrification works. The cost of closing the station would unlikely stack up against the marginal ongoing running cost that would be saved. With the wiring works, there is now a substantial capital cost saving to be had, which swings the balace of the BCR the other way.

 

[infobleep]

138 single journeys a year (for a station with six eastbound services a week and six westbound services a week)... so that's one person doing a return journey each week (i.e. 52x2 single journeys) plus a handful of enthusiasts buying a ticket there so that they can say that they bought a ticket to Breich?

How much worse would the figures have to be for some people to accept that it's never going to be worthwhile?



IIRC Denton and Reddish South are served by a unit that would be running ECS from Stockport to Newton Heath anyway (as it does Monday to Thursday). The marginal cost is just the fact that this duty is a little slower on a Friday as the unit is in service from Stockport to Stalybridge - it doesn't inconvenience any other passengers (as it's heading back to the depot at the end of the morning peak).

Today the unit left Stockport at 09:07 and was scheduled to get to Newton Heath at 09:51 after a tour of quiet lines around the outskirts of Manchester (it arrived a couple of minutes early this morning - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y68867/2017/06/27/advanced).

On a Friday it leaves Stockport at 09:22 and gets to Stalybridge at 09:43 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y65092/2017/06/30/advanced)...

...then waits until 09:57 when it runs light back to the depot (arriving at 10:11 - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y68887/2017/06/30/advanced).

So the duty lasts twenty minutes longer on a Friday - I'll let someone else worry about the hourly rate of the two members of staff needed to do that and whether it covers the farebox - but it's probably fairly marginal stuff - as long as you don't need to spend anything on bringing the two stations up to scratch - Breich's problem is that it is on a line that requires that kind of investment due to electrification.

Thanks for explaining that. What about track access charges? I guess they'd have those as part of the ECS anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

Don't know whether it has been done here, but it can be done.

You can in theory compare the BCR of the *whole* electrification scheme in two scenarios:
-Including the costs of the works at Breich and retention of services
-Excluding the costs of the works at Breich, reduced benefits arising from removal of services at Breich, but *including journey time benefits to non-Breich passengers whose journeys are sped up* and *excluding the ongoing cost of maintaining the station*

For a lightly used station like Breich with little if any prospect of growth, the latter will win 99% of the time.

I'm aware that something like this has been done at least once, although the station in question (which I can't name) remains open. A transport planner colleague tried to explain it to me, but most of it went over my head.

 

[Blindtraveler]

There is also no reason what so ever that Breich can't remain part of a ticketed national rail journey and I would suggest 2 options for this:

1. Taxi provided by Scotrail orgonised by the guard onboard or from the help point at Fauldhouse.

2. Rename the station/stop as Breich (Bus) and make any national rail ticket to or from this station, as well as any rail ranger/rover/staff travel pass valid in the area accepted on the 2 bus routes in the area.

 

[Essexman]

I used Breich station a few weeks ago.

Travelled from Edinburgh to Fauldhouse and enjoyed the pleasant walk to Breich, then caught the train on to Glasgow.

The platforms could do with a bit of weeding but the bridge is definitely in need of some work. I wondered if the bridge could be removed and a path run for about 70 yards from the west end of the Edinburgh –bound platform to the road. That would seem a cheaper solution than both the closure process and rebuilding the station.

Obviously 138 users a year doesn’t merit a great deal of expenditure but given the service provision the low usage is hardly surprising. It will never be busy but if a few more trains stopped there (on request?) and there was some publicity to encourage people to use it for walking (it’s quite nice countryside), then usage may well grow.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Unfortunatly not many walker visit the area and the weather round there is often bad but I do like your idea.

 

[Mordac]

Unfortunatly not many walker visit the area and the weather round there is often bad but I do like your idea.

Do you mean it's often dreich in Breich?

 

[Wolvercoter]

I used Breich station a few weeks ago.

Travelled from Edinburgh to Fauldhouse and enjoyed the pleasant walk to Breich, then caught the train on to Glasgow..

I am planning to do the same in a few weeks time. Which walking route did you take from Fauldhouse? How much time should I set aside?

 

[najaB]

Do you mean it's often dreich in Breich?

Aye, it is this week.

 

[Essexman]

I am planning to do the same in a few weeks time. Which walking route did you take from Fauldhouse? How much time should I set aside?

You could probably do it in about an hour but I’d allow more given there’s only the one train from Breich. It’s about 3 miles I think. Any time over and you can explore the delights of Breich station.

I took a path on the right from the road that leads into Fauldhouse from the station (after about ¼ mile). This heads towards the railway and a cemetery. Don’t go under the railway but stay left, following an old railway line. When this reaches a road it’s a bit unclear as not signed. You go down to the road, go right for a few yards, then take a path on the left by a house. This follows the old railway line for some way. You eventually reach a road, turn right here, and Breich station is by a junction after about ½ mile.

 

[Blindtraveler]

You will find on most days reasonable 3g signal, possibly 4g since I was in the area so use of the ever faithful google maps will be possible

 

[Wolvercoter]

You could probably do it in about an hour but I’d allow more given there’s only the one train from Breich. It’s about 3 miles I think. Any time over and you can explore the delights of Breich station.

You will find on most days reasonable 3g signal, possibly 4g since I was in the area so use of the ever faithful google maps will be possible

Thanks for the advice. I went to Breich last Friday. I got off at Fauldhouse about 17:00 and walked along the B7015 and A706. There is pathways most of the way. I'd like to have followed your instructions Essexman but I was a bit worried I'd get lost and miss the train. As it turned out, I was there in just under an hour and had plenty of time to enjoy the station before the 18:38 arrived to take me back to Glasgow.

 

[lejog]

You will find on most days reasonable 3g signal, possibly 4g since I was in the area so use of the ever faithful google maps will be possible

Google maps is completely and utterly useless for off-road walking, as paths aren't marked - the route along the old railway described byEssexman doesn't even show.

Far better to use the OS maps provided by bing maps or streetmap.co.uk, where the path is shown. On Bing maps just search for Fauldhouse, switch to OS mapping (top right), zoom in to the 1:25000 scale (when the path changes from a dashed line to a series of orange dots), centre so the whole route is on the screen and print screen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or pay a paltry twenty quid a year for OS Maps which is an excellent app allowing offline downloads etc, as well as self printed maps online. No point for a one off but if you often do "outdoors" type stuff it's well worth it.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Or use an OpenStreetMap-based app, which has most rural paths plus better path coverage than OS in cities. I use MapOut on the iPhone, but there are dozens available.

 

[Carlisle]

the weather round there is often bad

That'll definitely apply to this summer which so far has been practically non existent in southern Scotland and northern England,even by the pretty low standards folk up here are used to, but hopefully not every one.

 

[PaulLothian]

Unfortunately not many walkers visit the area...

I have to say that in 40 years of walking in Scotland, Breich has never so far been my destination of choice. Having said which, I now find myself strangely attracted by the idea of an expedition from Breich to the heights of a nearby hill, the unusually-named Worm Law. Unfortunately, forestry plantations don't make for exciting walking.

 

[Essexman]

Is anyone here submitting an objection to the proposed closure of Breich?

 

[InOban]

I would have thought that the only valid objections could come from regular users, and since I believe there aren't any....

 

[xc170]

Is anyone here submitting an objection to the proposed closure of Breich?

Why?

It's a station with no real use that'll cost money to upgrade to modern standards, just close it spend the money on something usefull...