My thoughts on Donald Tump and climate change

[Mojo]

Although Clinton got more votes than Trump, I hesitate to suggest that were the election based on simply the biggest number of votes nationwide, then the campaigning would have been done differently & resources allocated differently and it is still possible that Trump could have won.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Oh and keep up with the nasty snide comments (from some of you) as my ignore list is growing nicely . I fully understand that there is a lot of people on here that clearly dislike Donald Trump (and me for taking Donald Trump's side) and I do not have a problem with that because this is a very interesting debate.

I think you'll find that the reason that you are being attacked (including by me) so much isn't really because you're taking Donald Trump's side: It's because at least twice now, you've stated things in this thread that are demonstrably not true (and - at least from the impression I've had - on both times, when the falsehood was pointed out, you dug your heels in rather than admitting your mistake):

That's because the whole climate change and global warming is a farce

That is simply not true.

If I was an American, I would have voted for Trump out of the two options as per most of the Americans that did .

The bit I've bolded is also simply not true. Most Americans did not vote for Trump, and others have pointed out, more voted for Clinton than voted for Trump.

Everyone makes mistakes, but if you don't acknowledge your mistakes when you're caught saying things that are not true, then realistically, you are going to get pilloried for it.

Also the truth can be tailored-made to a degree .

I don't think that's really true. There are certainly many things that are genuinely matters of opinion, and where there is therefore scope to disagree. There are also things where the 'truth' is not fully known and so could be subject to genuine debate. But there are also many, many, things that are fairly well established as verifiable fact (such as that man-made climate change exists, and that Hilary Clinton got more votes that Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election) - those 'truths' are certainly not 'tailor-made'!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

For the avoidance of any doubt: Votes cast in the 2016 US Presidential Election:

Hilary Clinton 65,853,516 (48.18%)
Donald Trump 62,984,825 (46.09%)

The full results are available here

 

[najaB]

Sadly Drumpf does believe that he got more votes , as shown by his repeated claims of unsubstantiated voter fraud , and his brand new voter commission, which really looks more like a voter suppression machine to me , especially with Kris Kobach at the helm

He doesn't deny that more votes were cast for Clinton, he claims (without a single shred of evidence) that many of them were illegitimate. To quote DJT himself (since the 'mainstream media' isn't to be trusted :roll::

In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally

 

[najaB]

I am at a lost as to what you are referring to in all honesty.

Seeing as I quoted exactly what I was referring to, I can only conclude that you are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[sk688]

He doesn't deny that more votes were cast for Clinton, he claims (without a single shred of evidence) that many of them were illegitimate. To quote DJT himself (since the 'mainstream media' isn't to be trusted :roll::

Ah sorry that’s what I meant , in that he claimed he’s won the popular vote too ( despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary)

 

[Darandio]

He's also just tweeted to dismiss claims that he has joined RailUK forums under the pseudonym BR60062 as fake news.

 

[sk688]

To be honest with you mate. Having not owned a television since 2004. I am very skeptical to what any mainstream media might say, post or show. In all honesty, I take everything that the mainstream media says with a pinch of salt .

If you don’t consume your news through the MSM , then could I possibly ask exactly where do you get your news from ?

I ask because it could be from hyper partisan sites , which claim to be “the voice of truth “ but are far more likely to show bias , and has been with sites in the alt right like Breitbart and Infowars , especially the latter , in which Alex Jones “debunks conspiracies”

Some of his idiotic rants are on YouTube, where you could give them a watch

Very disturbing to say the least , with the amount of lies and falsehoods

 

[AlterEgo]

Rather a worrying thread. I'm on Amtrak's Empire Builder and had lunch yesterday with some Amish teenagers that have a better understanding of how the world works than the OP. (Incidentally we discussed climate change and man's impact on it and were in agreement about everything except the God creating the earth bit!).

 

[Cowley]

Rather a worrying thread. I'm on Amtrak's Empire Builder and had lunch yesterday with some Amish teenagers that have a better understanding of how the world works than the OP. (Incidentally we discussed climate change and man's impact on it and were in agreement about everything except the God creating the earth bit!).

That sounds like an excellent thing to be doing AlterEgo. This is quite a strange thread I must say.

 

[DaleCooper]

Rather a worrying thread. I'm on Amtrak's Empire Builder and had lunch yesterday with some Amish teenagers that have a better understanding of how the world works than the OP. (Incidentally we discussed climate change and man's impact on it and were in agreement about everything except the God creating the earth bit!).

As René Descartes might have said "I thinkish, therefore I Amish".

 

[Darandio]

Rather a worrying thread. I'm on Amtrak's Empire Builder and had lunch yesterday with some Amish teenagers that have a better understanding of how the world works than the OP. (Incidentally we discussed climate change and man's impact on it and were in agreement about everything except the God creating the earth bit!).

I trust you have been filming the accompanying trip report?

 

[BR60062]

If you don’t consume your news through the MSM , then could I possibly ask exactly where do you get your news from ?

I ask because it could be from hyper partisan sites , which claim to be “the voice of truth “ but are far more likely to show bias , and has been with sites in the alt right like Breitbart and Infowars , especially the latter , in which Alex Jones “debunks conspiracies”

Some of his idiotic rants are on YouTube, where you could give them a watch

Very disturbing to say the least , with the amount of lies and falsehoods

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion.

Rather a worrying thread.

It is indeed because I find it quite alarming on how some people on here and in the real world really are. A rational person should not hate on someone because that person likes/favours Donald Trump. Although this thread has been useful as anyone that has chosen to dislike me over a topic about an American president has nominated themselves to go on my ignore list. Personally I don't mind if people dislike Donald Trump as a lot of people on here do and I respect that.

But I do not and WILL NOT respect is snide or immature comments because I am a civilised and a mature adult. So I kind of do expect rational feedback and I will listen to rational feedback.

He's also just tweeted to dismiss claims that he has joined RailUK forums under the pseudonym BR60062 as fake news.

To be honest. I think that Donald Trump has much more important things to do in life than hanging out at railways taking photos and videos of trains. That is if he even likes trains for that matter. But if he does like Class 60's then why not because they were the very last British built diesel locomotives and I doubt that we will ever see another brand new British built freight locomotive again.

This is quite a strange thread I must say.

It is indeed as "yorkie" was the one that made this topic and threw me into the driving seat of it to my knowledge and I am quite happy to be slammed by those that hate Donald Trump and his supporters that favour Mr Trump - I don't mind at all. Infact I find some of the remarks quite amusing on here to say the least from those with narrow minds as it goes in one eye and then fast track straight into the ignore bin .

 

[VauxhallandI]

Folks this guy must be a wind up

 

[najaB]

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion.

I have no problem with people whose opinions differ from mine, the world would be incredibly boring if we all thought the same thing. However, I do take issue when people make claims that contradict provable facts, and which they are unable/unwilling to back up with any actual evidence.

"I know it is true" doesn't make it true.

You say that climate change is a farce, however global temperatures are provably increasing. If you have evidence to support your contradictory claim, please provide it.

You say that "Also nature provides man with many non-lethal fuels like coal and oil, gas etc for man to use." Firstly, coal-fired power stations release more radiation into the environment than nuclear power stations. Secondly, even ignoring carbon dioxide, the production of coal and oil does more damage to the environment than the entire nuclear power cycle ever will. Take a look at a coal mine tailings pond one of these days.

You say that Donald Drumpf is potentially one of the most successful American presidents. Time may yet prove that to be true, but given that he's six months into his term and hasn't signed a single piece of significant legislation despite his party having control of the the White House and both houses of Congress it isn't looking good. If you have anything to counter this apparently poor form I'd be very interested in hearing it.

The problem with 'alternative facts' is that they aren't true - no matter how much you want them to be. I'm more than happy to debate you on the facts, but you need to bring some to the table.

 

[DaleCooper]

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion.

If you won't share your sources how will we ever know the truth. Surely that's a self-defeating attitude, you should be doing everything you can to spread the real facts.

 

[cjmillsnun]

To be honest with you mate. Having not owned a television since 2004. I am very skeptical to what any mainstream media might say, post or show. In all honesty, I take everything that the mainstream media says with a pinch of salt .

OK lets discount MSM. Lets look at a scientific organisation funded by the US Government, specifically NASA.

The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95 percent probability) to be the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over decades to millennia.

source https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

[AlterEgo]

It is indeed because I find it quite alarming on how some people on here and in the real world really are. A rational person should not hate on someone because that person likes/favours Donald Trump. Although this thread has been useful as anyone that has chosen to dislike me over a topic about an American president has nominated themselves to go on my ignore list. Personally I don't mind if people dislike Donald Trump as a lot of people on here do and I respect that.

But I do not and WILL NOT respect is snide or immature comments because I am a civilised and a mature adult. So I kind of do expect rational feedback and I will listen to rational feedback.

I've travelled across America a lot on Amtrak and part of the experience is the chance to meet real American people through enforced communal dining. I've met some very decent and upstanding people who voted for Trump. While I dislike him intensely I understand why he was elected and believe the majority of people who voted for him were good honest people, most of whom accepted his obvious shortcomings. (He also got a lot of a-holes to vote for him too but I don't think that's the majority)

What I find compelling is that I, a God-denying metropolitan, and a fundamentalist Christian, Amish teenager can both agree - for differing reasons - that climate change is man made, that man should be a good custodian of the world, that climate change is unwelcome and action should be taken to limit it - and you can't, with your alternative facts and unpublished sources (at least the Amish's source is a world bestseller we can all access, eh?)

I have great respect for people who choose to live outside "the system" where their beliefs are sincere and deep. I don't have the same respect for modern alternative facts, especially from supposedly educated and urbane people, and self-proclaiming "civilised and mature adults" who shallowly wish for a different agenda where they don't feel like a victim all the time.

 

[GusB]

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion.

Why do you refuse to post your sources of information? Is it not in our best interests that we all hear the real truth?

 

[Harbornite]

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion.

How convenient for you...

 

[najaB]

Why do you refuse to post your sources of information? Is it not in our best interests that we all hear the real truth?

It does fit in well with being a 'Trumpist' (for want of a better word). Look at the number of times he and his administration have made claims based on 'proof' that they would release later, but which they have never provided.

It's their modus operandi.

 

[CosherB]

Why do you refuse to post your sources of information? Is it not in our best interests that we all hear the real truth?

It's because he has a 'holier-than-thou' attitude and refuses to debate and engage with the issues that most do on here. Respect has to be earned, not demanded, and putting fellow contributors on here onto an 'ignore list' (whatever that is) is evidence of this 'superior' attitude.

Perhaps he worships at the same altar as David Icke.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Rather a worrying thread. I'm on Amtrak's Empire Builder and had lunch yesterday with some Amish teenagers that have a better understanding of how the world works than the OP. (Incidentally we discussed climate change and man's impact on it and were in agreement about everything except the God creating the earth bit!).

I understand your sentiments, and I agree that the attitude of the original poster - in particular his apparent disregard for evidence and facts - is worrying. But your post seems to imply surprise that Amish teenagers have a good understanding of the World... Is there some reason why that would be surprising? I'd have thought it's quite common to find well-educated teenagers who would have a better understanding of many aspects of the World than badly educated (or badly informed) adults.

 

[najaB]

But your post seems to imply surprise that Amish teenagers have a good understanding of the World... Is there some reason why that would be surprising?

I don't want to put words into another poster's mouth, but I suspect it is because the Amish isolate themselves from the world of the English and their general prohibition on modern technology would only serve to exacerbate that isolation.

 

[HSTEd]

It should be noted that in real terms the overnight cost of Ontario Hydro nuclear stations remained constant from Pickering A through to the end of nuclear construction in Ontario with Darlington GS - despite massive regulatory ratcheting.
The only reason Darlington overran its budget was due to delays and the 15% interest rates prevailing at the time.
Modern nuclear is extremely cheap in a low interest scenario - like the one the British Government is currently in.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't want to put words into another poster's mouth, but I suspect it is because the Amish isolate themselves from the world of the English and their general prohibition on modern technology would only serve to exacerbate that isolation.

The Amish also educate their kids in one room schools, never beyond eighth grade, and don't get involved in the outside world too much. I was asked whether we had trains in England, for example, and whether it was a big country.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The Amish also educate their kids in one room schools, never beyond eighth grade, and don't get involved in the outside world too much. I was asked whether we had trains in England, for example, and whether it was a big country.

Questions that many other US citizens would ask.

 

[DarloRich]

I have ways and means of learning about facts although I am going to refuse to post my sources as there is too many people that cannot handle the truth as clearly evident by some of the past snide remarks which I feel it is rather childish to say the least in my opinion

If you won't share your sources how will we ever know the truth. Surely that's a self-defeating attitude, you should be doing everything you can to spread the real facts.

Because the op has made similar suggestions in the past and when it was pointed out his truthful "special" sources were, in fact, alt right, clown town, tin foliery centres of the highest order he went off in a huff.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The Amish also educate their kids in one room schools, never beyond eighth grade, and don't get involved in the outside world too much. I was asked whether we had trains in England, for example, and whether it was a big country.

Questions that many other US citizens would ask.

And to go the other way: I read AlterEgo's post and quite genuinely thought 'What's 8th grade?' (Lesson: Clearly there's a point beyond which even educated people are not going to know the details about life in or procedures in another country).

 

[dgl]

And if anyone doesn't believe in global warming then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm8msUaTqnU

Just because someone heard something from someone who heard it from someone else who heard it from someone who had business motives to have a different view (but that weren't mentioned) doesn't make it true, multiple scientists, who are experts in their field with verifiable correct information, they are to believed.

Trump does believe, however, that his apartment is hermetically sealed. Unfortunatly that is not the case