Delay Repay, but who in this case do I claim against?

[OhNoAPacer]

Journey Whitehaven to Northampton via Barrow in Furness, Preston and Rugby on 21/7.
19:58 VTWC departed late from Preston so arrived Rugby too late for the connection the 21:32. The next service the 21:58 was cancelled and the train I. finally caught the 22:12 did not depart until 22:39. So into clear delay repay.
Normally of course it would be clear that VTWC caused the delay, however I have learned that the 21:32 LM service from Rugby was cancelled, so even if the VTWC train had been on time then I would have been delayed by the same amount of time, which would clearly have made my claim against LM.
So, in this case where I missed a connection that had been cancelled who do I submit my delay repay claim to, VTWC or LM?

 

[bb21]

Claim from VT, due to the missed connection.

 

[crehld]

As a tip, Virgin's delay repay form on its website will not recognize stations it doesn't serve, so it's not possible to use this for journeys which include an origin/destination off their network (such as Whitehaven). Their general contact form on the website suffers from the same problem.

I therefore suggest emailing Customer.Relations@virgintrains.co.uk directly, with full details of your journey and delay, and a scan of your tickets attached. Clearly state "delay repay" in the subject.

 

[JBuchananGB]

This was suggested to me by Virgin in a Live chat a few days ago:

Well there are Delay Repay forms, you could write out the details on a letter and include it with that. You can pick these up at any of Virgin Trains station. Or you could even just write a letter with all of the details, and just send it in to West Coast Trains Ltd, Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B2 4DN.
Emily 11/07/2017 13:36 GMT
I would recommend to send this via recorded delivery, as if we don't receive this and it goes missing with Royal Mail I'm afraid we wouldn't be able to do anything, or just a copy of the tickets instead.

The case there was that the on-line forms did not allow scope to explain that due to totally cancelled Virgin Trains over a 3 hour period, the actual journey taken involved Grand Central and TPE.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Or, just fill it in online, insert the two stations on Virgins network that you were travelling between, and tick the "missed connection" box-it is what it is there for! Its one sole purpose-and claim that way, as by far the easiest.

 

[crehld]

Or, just fill it in online, insert the two stations on Virgins network that you were travelling between, and tick the "missed connection" box-it is what it is there for! Its one sole purpose-and claim that way, as by far the easiest.

I advise against this. If you only put in the Virgin leg of the journey Virgin incorrectly will use just that to determine delay repay eligibility. The member of staff (or even computer?) will look up the just Preston to Rugby leg of the OP's journey (as that is what they entered on the form), ignoring any other journey legs or connections, and will find they were only 19 minutes delayed into Rugby and therefore not eligible for compensation. The OP will then have to get back in touch with Virgin, further delaying resolution of the case.

Emailing direct does exactly the same job, gets round the limitations of the online form, is just as quick and easy to do, and allows the full situation to be explained which should in turn reduce the chance for Virgin to muck it up.

 

[gray1404]

Email them and attach a copy of the tickets. VT have all the information and you totally avoid tickets going missing in the post.

 

[bb21]

I would agree with the suggestion of sending an email.

Although if you do send an email, assuming no other issues you wish to raise, please try and keep it concise. That is one of the reasons why forms are used as most of them would be processed in a standardised way.

I normally recommend that if you are claiming compensation, to simply list in tabular form details of planned itinerary and details of actual journey. There is no additional wording required. If there are additional issues, then include them after the part for compensation claims. Remember that caseworkers probably don't have very long on average per case, so any unnecessary rambling is likely to see things either processed incorrectly, or thrown onto the "more work to do" pile thereby delaying response.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Thank you to those who responded, and sorry for delay in acknowledgement, I have been away and this is the first chance I have had to access the forum.
I agree with the advice on how to send to Virgin, have done the 'this was my intended journey - this was my actual journey, showing times of trains' in the past, and to be fair Virgin have always paid up promptly and with no quibbling.
My actual issue was that as the service I was due to connect onto was cancelled are Virgin still liable for the delay as even if they had arrived at Rugby on time then I would still have had just a delayed journey due to the LM service having been cancelled.
Let me clarify what I am asking:

Imagine the following :

Journey A: Virgin arrive late into Rugby, LM service had operated clearly any claim is with Virgin.

Journey B: Virgin arrive on time into Rugby, LM service cancelled clearly any service is with LM.

Journey C (as in what is my case): Virgin arrive late into Rugby, LM service had been cancelled, is my claim still with Virgin, or is their argument going to be that you cannot miss a cancelled train (albeit one that I did not know was cancelled until later).

 

[najaB]

Journey C (as in what is my case): Virgin arrive late into Rugby, LM service had been cancelled, is my claim still with Virgin, or is their argument going to be that you cannot miss a cancelled train (albeit one that I did not know was cancelled until later).

You claim against the TOC you were travelling with when things started to go wrong - even if they went 'wronger' later in the day.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Thank you to those who responded, and sorry for delay in acknowledgement, I have been away and this is the first chance I have had to access the forum.
I agree with the advice on how to send to Virgin, have done the 'this was my intended journey - this was my actual journey, showing times of trains' in the past, and to be fair Virgin have always paid up promptly and with no quibbling.
My actual issue was that as the service I was due to connect onto was cancelled are Virgin still liable for the delay as even if they had arrived at Rugby on time then I would still have had just a delayed journey due to the LM service having been cancelled.
Let me clarify what I am asking:

Imagine the following :

Journey A: Virgin arrive late into Rugby, LM service had operated clearly any claim is with Virgin.

Journey B: Virgin arrive on time into Rugby, LM service cancelled clearly any service is with LM.

Journey C (as in what is my case): Virgin arrive late into Rugby, LM service had been cancelled, is my claim still with Virgin, or is their argument going to be that you cannot miss a cancelled train (albeit one that I did not know was cancelled until later).

Your case from the original post is Journey A. Your intended connection left on time but you missed it because the VT service was late in. The fact that subsequent services were cancelled or late is not relevant (apart from the total delay time). Had the VT service made it to Rugby on time, you would've made the original connection and not been delayed.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

I have obviously still not explained myself properly, not that it now matters as I have sent off the claim to Virgin anyway.

This is what happened, hopefully this time my explanation is clear.

Virgin train arrived late into Rugby (at 21:46), so, clearly too late for the LM service that departs at 21:32.
However this 21:32 LM service had been cancelled so I could not have caught it even if I had arrived Rugby on time.

My subsequent arrival into Northampton would therefore have been at the same time even if the Virgin service had arrived on time due to the cancellation and late running of LM services.

In this scenario could Virgin argue that they cannot cause me to miss a connection that had been cancelled?

 

[najaB]

In this scenario could Virgin argue that they cannot cause me to miss a connection that had been cancelled?

I say no because, as you point out, they delivered you to Ruby late so even if the train had run you would still have been delayed. The cancellation of the LM service doesn't make a difference to the magnitude of your delay.