East Midlands franchise prospectus

[kevjs]

Interesting comment in another thread based on what The Times is reporting

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3049854&postcount=873

Plans to upgrade core stretches of track on the TransPennine, Midland Mainline and Great Western routes to run electric trains are set to be put back by years in favour of new “bi-mode” trains that run on both diesel and electricity.

....

Details of the controversial delays will stoke the debate on regional inequality. Industry sources said a plan to electrify the Midland Mainline north of Kettering to Sheffield is set to be pushed back by years from its current deadline of 2023. Meanwhile a stretch of electric line to Corby is also under threat. As a result, terms for a new East Midlands franchise are likely to specify new bi-mode trains rather than electric-only.

Looks like BiModes will be needed for Corby!

 

[thenorthern]

Looks like BiModes will be needed for Corby!

Given that Leicester isn't much further than Corby and that its far more important than Corby I think its always going to be difficult to justify electrifying to Corby rather than Leicester.

Also given the size of Corby the railway station seems rather underused, I am aware that it doesn't have regular services to nearby places such as Leicester or Nottingham but still it has similar passengers numbers as Oakham which is a town 1/6th the size of Corby.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Given that Leicester isn't much further than Corby and that its far more important than Corby I think its always going to be difficult to justify electrifying to Corby rather than Leicester.

Also given the size of Corby the railway station seems rather underused, I am aware that it doesn't have regular services to nearby places such as Leicester or Nottingham but still it has similar passengers numbers as Oakham which is a town 1/6th the size of Corby.

The reason for the wires to go to Corby first is that the line will be end of a 2tph stopping service to London. Using full length rakes of regional-express EMUs (think 110mph London Midland services) you can soak up a lot of passengers who would otherwise take up space on the Nottingham/Sheffield services. Extending the wires to Leicester would make no real difference to anything because no trains could become wholly electric. The only trains capable of using those wires would be bi-modes, but they would have been just as capable of switching over at Kettering.

 

[edwin_m]

The reason for the wires to go to Corby first is that the line will be end of a 2tph stopping service to London. Using full length rakes of regional-express EMUs (think 110mph London Midland services) you can soak up a lot of passengers who would otherwise take up space on the Nottingham/Sheffield services. Extending the wires to Leicester would make no real difference to anything because no trains could become wholly electric. The only trains capable of using those wires would be bi-modes, but they would have been just as capable of switching over at Kettering.

Indeed. They also provide a more comfortable alternative to a 700 for the hour-long journey to Bedford and probably allow most Luton, Bedford and Wellingborough stops to be taken out of the longer-distance trains. I'd leave some Luton Airport Parkway stops in to link the East Midlands to the airport and give the local stations to the south longer-distance connections with one change instead of two.

 

[43074]

The government have launched the consultation for the new franchise: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-east-midlands-rail-franchise

Options include transferring the XC Birmingham to Stansted and Nottingham to Cardiff services to the East Midlands franchise, and Nottingham to Liverpool going to TPE. Also big talk of the fairly well established plans to better cater for commuter flows South of Kettering, although I think the seriousness of this is overstated somewhat.

 

[Muzer]

The government have launched the consultation for the new franchise: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-east-midlands-rail-franchise

Options include transferring the XC Birmingham to Stansted and Nottingham to Cardiff services to the East Midlands franchise, and Nottingham to Liverpool going to TPE. Also big talk of the fairly well established plans to better cater for commuter flows South of Kettering, although I think the seriousness of this is overstated somewhat.

I hope they're not thinking of splitting Norwich to Liverpool again?

 

[northwichcat]

I hope they're not thinking of splitting Norwich to Liverpool again?

It's an option

Liverpool – Norwich
• A transfer of part of the Liverpool to Norwich service to the
TransPennine Express franchise, potentially including a split of
the services at Nottingham or Sheffield. The route serves different
markets along its length. In East Anglia, its main function is as a
connection to the East Coast Main Line at Peterborough. In the
East Midlands it links Grantham and Nottingham and provides a
through service to cities in the North West. Transferring this service
to TransPennine Express could offer:
− A more efficient, cohesive service between cities on
the western section of the route (Liverpool, Manchester
and Sheffield), with similar rolling stock and a consistent
on-board service.
− More flexible journey opportunities within each franchise*area.
If the service is split, this will mean passengers may need to change
trains for journeys between certain stations.
Alternative options could include:
− A partial transfer, with the majority of services terminating at
Nottingham or Sheffield, but with a limited through service
maintained on some or all of the rest of the route.
− Or overlapping services provided by each operator.

Lack of luggage space on the 158s is mentioned as a problem elsewhere.

Plus

Birmingham – Nottingham
• A transfer of the local Birmingham to Nottingham service from the
Cross Country franchise to the East Midlands franchise. This*could:
− Facilitate the restoration of some through trains;
e.g. between Lincoln and Birmingham.
Birmingham – Leicester/Stansted
• A transfer of the Birmingham to Leicester/Stansted Airport services
from the Cross Country franchise to the East Midlands franchise.
This could:
− Allow bidders flexibility to offer new services, e.g. Norwich –
Birmingham or from East Midlands stations to Cambridge/
Stansted Airport.
− Mean the East Midlands franchise overall would be more
focused on its core geographic area.
The routes covered by the East Midlands franchise could also change
by introducing passenger services over freight-only routes.

The document also confirms the next franchise will start in August 2019

No mention of new rolling stock for non-London routes but they mention bi-modes for MML services and 'modern, comfortable, high quality trains suitable for serving London commuter passengers.' Maybe EMUs for the Corby-London services?

 

[bunnahabhain]

Liverpool to Norwich, Nottingham to Cardiff, and Birmingham to Stansted would all fit in well with an East Midlands Connect style offering. If the 222s are unaccounted for elsewhere you'd be able to reform them into standard sets of 8 x 6 car and 19 x 5 car. Reduce 1st class to just the driving motor, the rest for standard class. You'd be able to offer a much increased level of service over the 158s and 170s, cascade the 158s and 170s to replace 153s (and 156s?) on the local routes.

The benefit there is you'd be able to increase competition between EMT and XC to keep the fares lower (certainly on Advanced Purchase tickets). Seems more sensible to me than giving TPE a near monopoly on any long distance route in the North West and potentially reducing connectivity through splitting the service.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Options include transferring the XC Birmingham to Stansted and Nottingham to Cardiff services to the East Midlands franchise, and Nottingham to Liverpool going to TPE.

I hope they're not thinking of splitting Norwich to Liverpool again?

It's an option

Liverpool to Norwich, Nottingham to Cardiff, and Birmingham to Stansted would all fit in well with an East Midlands Connect style offering.

As someone who lives in Norwich and commutes weekly to Leicester, I have something of a vested interest.

The idea of splitting Liverpool / Norwich at Nottingham (or Sheffield, as the document proposes) has been around for ages, and refuses to go away. I get the sense that it is driven primarily by operational efficiency, or even the apparent neatness of the franchise maps.

I would encourage everyone who intends to submit comments to respond on this point - because if the franchise is to be passenger-centric, then direct inter-regional are really important to defend. Those with luggage, different physical abilities, children, etc etc etc all prefer direct trains to connections.

Norwich is geographically isolated (some would say culturally too, but I'll save that one for another time ). We have poor roads to the rest of the country (A47, A17, A11), and we're so far from Manchester that Loganair can fly three times a day from NWI-MAN.

So, I'm concerned about the possibility of the route being cut back.

However, the idea of returning Birmingham - Leicester - Cambridge - Stansted to this franchise is really positive (and not only because the incumbent franchisee are rubbish). These two routes were disagregated before privitisation, again for operation efficiency. But this consultation raises the idea of interworking the two, perhaps splitting/joining at Ely or Peterborough, or perhaps with two-hourly services interworking Norwich - Birmingham / Liverpool and Stansted - Birmingham / Liverpool. That'd be really positive.

 

[Mollman]

I'm guessing that the three operators shortlisted will not have to re-submit the expression of interest, presume it is re-opened to try and attract some of the newer entrants to the franchise system.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[jamesontheroad]

less seats*

Fewer seats.

I'm sorry. Blame a particularly rigorous English teacher 20 years ago. I'll get my coat

 

[edwin_m]

This sounds like a prime example of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence. It's easy to see what's wrong with the current setup but much more difficult to see what's right and will be lost by changing it. Still more so to assess the cost and disruption of changing things round for no very good reason.

 

[swt_passenger]

Options include transferring the XC Birmingham to Stansted and Nottingham to Cardiff services to the East Midlands franchise...

Good. IMHO the wrong decision was made in 2006, the 'XC-lite' services should have been kept separate from the main north to south XC routes. They were always strange bedfellows...

 

[43074]

Good. IMHO the wrong decision was made in 2006, the 'XC-lite' services should have been kept separate from the main north to south XC routes. They were always strange bedfellows...

Yes I agree, and there's definitely scope for efficiencies, e.g. rationalising ECS moves between Nottingham and Leicester, and having Leicester crew work early and late Ivanhoe stopping services.

 

[thenorthern]

Birmingham to Stansted Airport would make sense under an East Midlands Franchise but Cardiff to Nottingham I think wouldn't given how far it runs outside the East Midlands, I think personally it would be better run by London Midland or Arriva Trains Wales.

 

[43074]

Birmingham to Stansted Airport would make sense under an East Midlands Franchise but Cardiff to Nottingham I think wouldn't given how far it runs outside the East Midlands, I think personally it would be better run by London Midland or Arriva Trains Wales.

The crews are the same as the ones on Birmingham to Stansted, that would offer very few benefits really.

 

[thenorthern]

The East Midlands as a whole is a very car dependent region as none of the stations in the 3 cities (Nottingham, Leicester and Derby) is particularly busy of the size of the city serve.

 

[westcoaster]

As I have always thought and seen as an EMT user, is that south of market Harborough they just don't care about. You see it in disruption and now this. As a resident of Northants these proposals sound not good, can really see the Corby's heading thameslink way.

 

[kevjs]

The East Midlands as a whole is a very car dependent region as none of the stations in the 3 cities (Nottingham, Leicester and Derby) is particularly busy of the size of the city serve.

Nottingham has one of the lowest levels of car ownership in the UK (56.3% of households at the last census) - only areas in Greater London, City of Manchester, and the Isles of Sicily have lower levels - and Leicester isn't much higher either. IIRC we are the least car dependant city outside of London.

However what Nottingham does have is high levels of public transport usage - IIRC only second to London for buses in England. Non of the three cities has much of an urban rail network to talk of which will drag it down (although with NET being broken most of this week and alternative ticket acceptance between Hucknall and Nottignham being via East Midlands Trains I dare say there will be a blip upwards this week!)

Of course, being Nottingham, the city boundary is a bit on the tight side so much of the urban area will have higher levels of car ownership. That being said one of the stats bounded around a decade ago was that West Bridgford (one of the more prosperous suburbs) was amongst the highest bus usage in the country where people were leaving their cars at home.

But this consultation raises the idea of interworking the two, perhaps splitting/joining at Ely or Peterborough, or perhaps with two-hourly services interworking Norwich - Birmingham / Liverpool and Stansted - Birmingham / Liverpool. That'd be really positive.

I'd often wondered if, with the right timings at Nottingham, if the Liverpool to Norwich train becoming a 2 hourly

Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Peterbourgh - Ely - Cambridge - Stansted
&
Birmingham - Leicester - Peterbourgh - Ely - Norwich

Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Peterbourgh - Ely - Norwich
&
Birmingham - Leicester - Peterbourgh - Ely - Cambridge - Stansted

would make more sense and be more useful for running Intercity stock while still not leaving Norwich out on a limb.

Would certainly help improve connections from Nottingham to Stansted.

 

[Class 170101]

Sorry but yet again this subject rears its head again.

Norwich to Liverpool should be part of the Cross Country franchise with Cardiff to Nottingham NOT leaving it!

 

[Andyh82]

I'd agree with the Liverpool service moving to TPE. Liverpool to Manchester is a key flow as is Manchester to Sheffield, so it makes sense for all the fast trains to be the same operator rather than one train an hour that isn't.

I'm not sure how many passengers travel across Nottingham, but why not transfer the entire route to TPE. If they can run to Edinburgh they could also run to Norwich!

I've never found the EMT franchise very logical ever since it was created. You've got the MML, the Liverpool/Norwich and then the rest which is mostly very different and isn't very substantial. XC having the main network and then the XC-lite routes has never fitted well either. I preferred the previous set up in the first generation of franchises. London Euston services could maybe have been given to Chiltern Railways or Virgin Trains.

 

[IanXC]

I'd advocate sending the Norwich service from Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly not via Sheffield, and have it terminate there. Relies of course on another Hope Valley path...

Then add a 2nd TP South route, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield.... Somewhere....

Part of me thinks the DfT are just looking for ways for TPE to keep all the 185s!

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[johnw]

As I have always thought and seen as an EMT user, is that south of market Harborough they just don't care about. You see it in disruption and now this. As a resident of Northants these proposals sound not good, can really see the Corby's heading thameslink way.

As a fellow Northants resident with Wellingborough my nearest station this is not good. The three an hour of fresh air non stop trains from Leicter/ Market Harbrough that pass through Wellingborough when I'm waiting for the proceeding rammed stopper - at various times a day / week is stupid.

Loosing from Wellingborough the non-Corby bound northbound trains will make a second change (which might look good on paper but delays?) to go north on the MML.

Who wants three trains an hour to or from Corby, a place people don't seem to want to travel to and certainly don't want to travel from!

If it happens then I presume Wellingborough will have a ticket price reduction to bring it inline with the proposed non intercity service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not massively opposed to transferring the Liverpool service to TPE, there are many good arguments in favour, not least the efficiency of being able to keep all the 185s with the same TOC. However I wouldn't like to see it truncated any further west than Nottingham, and all trains need to be 6-car as a 3-car 185 would, due to the inefficient layout, result in a return to the severe overcrowding of the late 1990s and early 2000s when 2-car 158s were used.

Of course, a higher density layout could be used in the 185s and First Class removed, but 3-car would still be inadequate for the vast majority of services.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Lots of opinions and ideas here, but can I make a courteous reminder that you should share them with the DfT as well

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/630614/east-midlands-rail-franchise-public-consultation.pdf - comments are due no later than 11 October 2017.

If you reply by email instead of the web form, make sure you answer the numbered questions at the back of the consultation document. Off piste narratives about what you think should be done are less likely to be included.

 

[Mollman]

Conspiracy theory time:
The short time scale to get the bi-modes in service from award date of new franchise seems to point to the DfT expecting bidders to order 802s rather than any new design which would require type approval. This would be around the time that Newton Aycliffe would be running out of current orders. (I'll get my coat)

 

[Senex]

Conspiracy theory time:
The short time scale to get the bi-modes in service from award date of new franchise seems to point to the DfT expecting bidders to order 802s rather than any new design which would require type approval. This would be around the time that Newton Aycliffe would be running out of current orders. (I'll get my coat)

What a cynic you are! How could you possibly believe that our dear leaders are not doing their very best for us?

 

[thenorthern]

If I remember correctly the East Midlands receives the 3rd lowest amount of funding per head only beaten by East Anglia and the South East (this doesn't include London which is the highest in England) so maybe with electrification being canceled and no announcement on new trains the Government is trying to say something.