London Midland taxis

[Albion91]

Not sure if this is the right place for this - if not, sorry!

Tonight I was on the 1942 from Leighton Buzzard, intending to change at Birmingham New Street (2120) to the next Birmingham Snow Hill service (2156) to Hagley (2230)

It was cancelled at Northampton due to an issue at Stechford.
London Midland staff at the station informed us that no trains would run North for the rest of the night and coaches would be laid on (though didn't know when.) They said that if I missed the last train from Snow Hill, network rail would provide a taxi to Hagley from New Street.

(Incidental customer service irritation 1: They also said that there were no trains (including Virgin fasts) running into Birmingham along the WCML at all (which according to RTT is incorrect). If I had been immediately informed I could go back to MKC and then onwards to Birmingham. I would have done)

(Incidental customer service irritation 2: The train after mine was left cancelled with no guard or driver on the platform for half an hour with no information given to the passengers inside, despite the London midland staff being made immediately aware there was a train full of people who hadn't been told their train was cancelled)

Then magically, two hours later, with no notice, a long train for Crewe turned up happy to take us on our way.

Now I will certainly arrive into New Street well after the last train from Snow Hill, so my question is how easy is it to get Network Rail to pay for a taxi and how long should I expect to be waiting for one? Would I be better of continuing on the train to Galton Bridge, or will that be unmanned at this time of night?

 

[yorkie]

Seek assistance at New Street.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[bb21]

(Incidental customer service irritation 2: The train after mine was left cancelled with no guard or driver on the platform for half an hour with no information given to the passengers inside, despite the London midland staff being made immediately aware there was a train full of people who hadn't been told their train was cancelled)

Maybe they were trying to source replacement crew, but were unsuccessful. Announcing a cancellation unnecessarily, and tipping out a train load of customers, only to subsequently announce that the train would be going after all is not going to be a smart move.

Then magically, two hours later, with no notice, a long train for Crewe turned up happy to take us on our way.

Obviously circumstances change. It may be the case that initial estimates by Network Rail was that the line would not reopen pending repair works but it might have turned out to be in a better shape.

Now I will certainly arrive into New Street well after the last train from Snow Hill, so my question is how easy is it to get Network Rail to pay for a taxi and how long should I expect to be waiting for one?

As long as it takes to get hold of one, but hopefully as it is a Monday night, not too long.

Would I be better of continuing on the train to Galton Bridge, or will that be unmanned at this time of night?

No. Stay with New Street. There is a Network Rail reception in the waiting area at the B end iirc. Head there.

 

[Albion91]

Thanks for your help! Network Rail got a taxi for me within half an hour and I got to Hagley exactly two hours later than expected.

In response to bb21, I accept that LM might not want to announce a cancellation, but I think its also important to keep passengers informed so they can make informed choices. If I was going to Birmingham International for a flight (for instance), I would want to be told as soon as possible that the train was not going to move for the time being, so that I could get a taxi from Northampton instead.

I suppose it comes down to my first irritation - that somewhere along the chain, useful and relevant information was not being passed onto passengers and so they couldn't make informed choices about how best to continue their journey.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Maybe they were trying to source replacement crew, but were unsuccessful. Announcing a cancellation unnecessarily, and tipping out a train load of customers, only to subsequently announce that the train would be going after all is not going to be a smart move.

So announce that. Give passengers the available information.

 

[gray1404]

2 hours late - be sure to claim delay repay on your journey from London Midland, this will be based on the arrival time of the taxi, so in this case will be for the full value of your ticket.

 

[bb21]

So announce that. Give passengers the available information.

By whom?

I think the service controllers probably have enough on their hands to be worried about providing a running commentary of what they are trying to do to get trains moving, which no other staff really need to know. I would rather control focus on the tasks in hand than being distracted by unnecessary tasks and miss something obvious in the process.

A message may have been sent out on Tyrell upon confirmation of service cancellation, and I am not ruling out the possibility that station staff may have overlooked it.

The TOC should have some generic paragraphs that can be put out to explain the situation and what actions are generally taken to recover services, but not to the level of what the controllers are specifically up to. I don't know whether LM put these messages up on their website. I know we do, both on the company website and NRES.

Those staff on the ground probably wouldn't be any wiser than the customers otherwise, aside from Tyrell messages.

 

[bb21]

Thanks for your help! Network Rail got a taxi for me within half an hour and I got to Hagley exactly two hours later than expected.

In response to bb21, I accept that LM might not want to announce a cancellation, but I think its also important to keep passengers informed so they can make informed choices. If I was going to Birmingham International for a flight (for instance), I would want to be told as soon as possible that the train was not going to move for the time being, so that I could get a taxi from Northampton instead.

I suppose it comes down to my first irritation - that somewhere along the chain, useful and relevant information was not being passed onto passengers and so they couldn't make informed choices about how best to continue their journey.

It all unfortunately goes down to circumstances sometimes. Now I won't pretend to know what happened there, or when the service was confirmed as cancelled, because I wasn't there. I was simply offering some possibilities. It is of course possible that either someone missed the message from control that the train was cancelled or that they were aware but simply got distracted by other things given the level of disruption. You can submit a complaint to bring it to their attention, and they will probably then investigate and carry out necessary actions. If you feel strongly about it then do send in a complaint. If no one brings it to their attention then they might never know about it.

In terms of informed decisions, if you were told that there may well not be further trains running northbound for the night, and you have a flight to catch, would you not catch a taxi in order to make your flight? I know I would. If it turned out an hour later that trains started running again, and you could have waited and made a tight connection, then that is life. Circumstances change and the core question would be whether you would want to risk missing the flight by waiting it out. There is a threshold in all our minds during delays when we say "enough waiting" and seek alternative arrangements. This is where travel insurance comes in handy. You could trying asking the TOC for a refund of the taxi fare in these circumstance, but a favourable outcome is not guaranteed.

 

[Albion91]

It all unfortunately goes down to circumstances sometimes. Now I won't pretend to know what happened there, or when the service was confirmed as cancelled, because I wasn't there. I was simply offering some possibilities. It is of course possible that either someone missed the message from control that the train was cancelled or that they were aware but simply got distracted by other things given the level of disruption. You can submit a complaint to bring it to their attention, and they will probably then investigate and carry out necessary actions. If you feel strongly about it then do send in a complaint. If no one brings it to their attention then they might never know about it.

In terms of informed decisions, if you were told that there may well not be further trains running northbound for the night, and you have a flight to catch, would you not catch a taxi in order to make your flight? I know I would. If it turned out an hour later that trains started running again, and you could have waited and made a tight connection, then that is life. Circumstances change and the core question would be whether you would want to risk missing the flight by waiting it out. There is a threshold in all our minds during delays when we say "enough waiting" and seek alternative arrangements. This is where travel insurance comes in handy. You could trying asking the TOC for a refund of the taxi fare in these circumstance, but a favourable outcome is not guaranteed.

But this is exactly what I mean. I was told - so I could make a somewhat informed choice (although the fact that some information I was given was wrong clouds the matter) - but the people on the next train were left on the platform for half an hour without being informed so they never had the opportunity. Members of staff were informed about this, but they didn't act on this information.

I appreciate that disruption such as this must be very difficult to cope with as a member of station staff/train crew - but I would have thought that, given that major disruption is not uncommon, good practice would be that there are procedures in place to keep all passengers informed.

Now it may be that there were circumstances which meant that these weren't followed (short staffed? Individual error? Confusing messages from control)

I'm just pointing out that as a customer, I was surprised by the chaos and poor communication which actually occurred on the day.

(Particularly, in stark contrast to excellent network rail staff at Birmingham New Street who had a number of stranded customers to deal with, but communicated effectively with us and seemed to be in complete organised control of situation)

 

[bb21]

Really in the context of "informed decision" there surely shouldn't be too much difference. In your example, with the prospect of the line reopening confirmed being small (albeit possibly incorrectly) the decision to make alternative arrangements would be fairly certain in the event of subsequent commitments at risk of being in jeopardy. If no information were forthcoming, there is surely also a point beyond which one would say "enough", and either goes off to find a member of staff for more information or makes alternative arrangements. Granted, it would introduce more doubt and decisions would likely be less decisive, but would anyone really sit there indefinitely without doing anything other than waiting for the train to move?

Having suitable information on the spot, great, but if it weren't forthcoming we surely don't just stop thinking for ourselves.

 

[WelshBluebird]

By whom?

Station staff? Or whoever was actually in charge of the train at the moment?

If no information were forthcoming, there is surely also a point beyond which one would say "enough", and either goes off to find a member of staff for more information or makes alternative arrangements..

But surely that is then a massive failure of the railway? It should NEVER get to that point. Literally never. So if it does, then my view is someone has messed up pretty badly.

 

[bb21]

Station staff? Or whoever was actually in charge of the train at the moment?

Station staff/traincrew will not have access to a running commentary of what the controllers are up to. What they may or may not have will simply be a general explanation of what measures may take place to aid service recovery. You can provide this explanation to the customers, and I think some TOCs are already doing that during disruption in the information they give out. It may or may not be useful but would provide those who have no idea what takes place with some understanding and assurance.

But surely that is then a massive failure of the railway? It should NEVER get to that point. Literally never. So if it does, then my view is someone has messed up pretty badly.

It could be that someone messed up, or it could be that those at the heart of everything has multiple jobs in hand and may have been preoccupied. In these situations, front-line staff may not even have access to necessary information themselves. Unfortunately the railway do not run with excess people in those functions, and the problem can be more acute the more severe the disruption.

Ideally there would be a perfect chain of communication, a perfect mechanism for information flow, backups for everything and everyone does everything to perfection. That would be wonderful. Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world, so occasionally things do not go to plan. It may be due to a mistake somewhere, or it may simply be that those people are overwhelmed.

As I mentioned earlier, if this is felt to be an issue, it is important that the customer lodges a complaint, so that the matter can be brought to the attention of the company for them to investigate, and remedial or preventative actions which are deemed necessary to be put in place to reduce the likelihood of a similar problem occurring again.

 

[bb21]

Saying that, I have had a look on Tyrell at work today, and it would appear that the cancellation message on 1Y79 (assuming it is the train the OP meant where no information was provided) was posted at 2037, so on this occasion, it would appear that information provision could have been better indeed, assuming that the station was staffed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Airlines are traditionally terrible at informing passengers, with the "late arrival of the inbound aircraft" excuse pervading everywhere. But easyJet have recently upped their game massively, with their operations control posting very detailed messages on issues and expected delay levels (obviously entered by a human and not from templates) available on the flight tracker and app.

This Monday my 0730 flight was delayed to 1200, and I even got a message saying to stay in bed for a bit (basically) and that check-in closing would be delayed to 1055 to avoid people pointlessly spending time at the airport. (They did fail to tell some staff about this, though, which resulted in a pointless argument for a bit, so not perfect).

Should the railway now up its (already not too bad) game on this too? I think it should and could. Twitter sort-of does it, as does JourneyCheck, but it's not anywhere near as good.

 

[Albion91]

Saying that, I have had a look on Tyrell at work today, and it would appear that the cancellation message on 1Y79 (assuming it is the train the OP meant where no information was provided) was posted at 2037, so on this occasion, it would appear that information provision could have been better indeed, assuming that the station was staffed.

The train in question was: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P48863/2017/07/17/advanced

By the point the train arrived at Northampton, the issue was at least an hour old. Members of station staff were immediately told about the train and that the passengers had not been informed, but it took larger and larger crowds of passengers coming up to find out what was going on, until around 2150 a member of station staff finally decided to go and inform the passengers.

 

[bb21]

The train in question was: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P48863/2017/07/17/advanced

By the point the train arrived at Northampton, the issue was at least an hour old. Members of station staff were immediately told about the train and that the passengers had not been informed, but it took larger and larger crowds of passengers coming up to find out what was going on, until around 2150 a member of station staff finally decided to go and inform the passengers.

Hmm, in that case I cannot find any message about cancellation at Northampton if 1Y81 was the one in question, so it's anyone's guess really.

If that was how the events panned out, as I said earlier, you may wish to lodge a complaint.

 

[bb21]

This Monday my 0730 flight was delayed to 1200, and I even got a message saying to stay in bed for a bit (basically) and that check-in closing would be delayed to 1055 to avoid people pointlessly spending time at the airport. (They did fail to tell some staff about this, though, which resulted in a pointless argument for a bit, so not perfect).

Have they only just caught up? IIRC Air France had something similar in place years ago. Last time I flew with them from Birmingham (at least 5 years ago) they were sending out advance text messages about anticipated delays. That said, the system at the time may be a bit more crude than what we have these days.

Should the railway now up its (already not too bad) game on this too? I think it should and could. Twitter sort-of does it, as does JourneyCheck, but it's not anywhere near as good.

It could potentially work with bookings where an itinerary were specified, or regular travellers. Obviously situations can change much easier on the railways than with airlines, but it is an idea with merit I think, potentially worth investigating.

 

[philthetube]

Even if no information can be provided passengers should be told that, not left wondering if the driver has collapsed in the cab or something similar, (trust me some do),

 

[SJN]

The crew usually changes at Northampton. The crew getting off may not know the train is cancelled and the crew taking over may have been stuck in the disruption and not arrived there yet. Its a possibility.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The crew usually changes at Northampton. The crew getting off may not know the train is cancelled and the crew taking over may have been stuck in the disruption and not arrived there yet. Its a possibility.

Would passengers actually be left on a train without any staff at all being present? Certainly have never experienced that and would be surprised if it happens! Some member of staff must be in a position of being responsible for the train at any one time, surely?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would passengers actually be left on a train without any staff at all being present? Certainly have never experienced that and would be surprised if it happens! Some member of staff must be in a position of being responsible for the train at any one time, surely?

It's not allowed officially AIUI but I certainly have seen it on LM, though more usually when a train has been left unlocked in the platform at Euston. This is rare these days as security has been beefed up a bit but used to be usual.

 

[SJN]

Some trains have a 20 min wait at Northampton. The departure time is normally announced before the crew get off. The new crew wont go over until its nearly time to lease, so yes, passengers will be left. They aren't locked on the train or anything.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Would passengers actually be left on a train without any staff at all being present? Certainly have never experienced that and would be surprised if it happens! Some member of staff must be in a position of being responsible for the train at any one time, surely?

I have seen this happen with LM a New Street. The driver who bought the train in finished his shift, but didn't wait for the new driver to arrive. The passengers were let on and sat there for some time before a platform dispatcher walked down the train to tell us there was no driver and we should return to the concourse.