PPM Going to Real Time in Future

[CentralTrainer]

From The Guardian:

Rail companies are to start accounting for the punctuality of trains to the exact minute, as the industry commits to becoming more transparent about delays.

Train operators have been criticised by passenger and consumer groups for not always counting the true level of delays, with official measures allowing a five- to 10-minute cushion for lateness.

The new benchmark will also report how many trains arrive to the exact minute on every stop along their route, rather than just the final destination.

Britain’s rail industry claimed it would give passengers the most transparent measure for train punctuality of any railway in Europe – and compare favourably with the aviation industry, where a 15-minute delay is counted as arriving on time.

Paul Plummer, chief executive of the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operating companies and Network Rail, said: “By adopting the most transparent measure in Europe, we want passengers to know that rail companies are putting an even greater focus on ensuring that trains are meeting the timetable, arriving to the minute and at stations along a journey. We are pushing ourselves to drive better punctuality because it will help to deliver a more reliable railway for the whole of Britain.”

However, the existing measure of lateness is likely to persist for some time – partly because, the industry body said, the rail network is only sufficiently connected by existing technology to allow 80% of arrivals at stations to be monitored exactly.

The official “public performance measure”, where commuter services have five minutes’ leeway and long-distance trains can arrive 10 minutes late and still count as on time, is also the basis on which Network Rail and train operators are monitored and face potential penalties. That standard is now likely to change from April 2019, when Network Rail’s contracts and funding are renewed, and in operators’ franchises starting from that date.

Anthony Smith, chief executive of the independent watchdog Transport Focus, welcomed the move. He said: “Passengers want a reliable, on-time train service. How that performance is measured and reported should, our research shows, closely mirror passengers’ real-life experience, otherwise trust will not be built up. So it is good to see the rail industry reporting on-time performance at many more stations.”

Some rail companies, particularly long-distance ones such as Virgin, have resisted moves to classifying trains as late after the exact time, arguing that removing the flexibility could encourage operators to cancel services or skip stations rather than risk them running late. Automatic compensation for delays is increasingly being paid on some routes, although the new reporting time will not change when it is triggered, usually after 15 or 30 minutes.

The Rail Delivery Group said that in the most recent four-week period it had measured, up until 24 June, 65% of trains arrived exactly on time, and 92% of trains arrived within 5 minutes. It said it would publish figures showing average delays and cancellations on a national level, with individual train operators expected to follow suit by next April.

Passengers can track the punctuality record of specific trains at www.mytrainjourney.co.uk

 

[Tim R-T-C]

So now the media can say "only 60% of trains arrive within 60 seconds of their arrival time" and even more people are put off using trains thinking they all run late?

Sounds like something that only a tiny minority are actually pushing for, surely it is a bigger priority to get the trains within the existing benchmarks and to focus on speeding up recovery after big problems, rather than worrying about 60 second delays.

On a three hour journey, do that many people really care if the train arrives five minutes late? If you are at the middle of a coach on the country end of an 11-car Pendolino arriving into a busy Euston it could take you five minutes just to get to the barriers anyway.

 

[Z12XE]

Say goodbye to any so called connecting trains being held ever again then.

And before anyone says they don't now. There are still some that have an allowance for late services

 

[kentman]

In the BBC news report : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40635372

The new data will also be published for the punctuality of trains stopping at intermediate stations, not just their final destinations, using GPS technology.

Would this be a GPS real time feed into TRUST, or some other system for historical reporting?

 

[radamfi]

Say goodbye to any so called connecting trains being held ever again then.

And before anyone says they don't know. There are still some that have an allowance for late services

It is also possible to report the proportion of connections missed, like in Switzerland.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Say goodbye to any so called connecting trains being held ever again then.

And before anyone says they don't know. There are still some that have an allowance for late services

Can you quantify some? Either as a % of services or a number. I'm guessing it won't be a very large number however you express it.

 

[FenMan]

Say goodbye to any so called connecting trains being held ever again then.

And before anyone says they don't know. There are still some that have an allowance for late services

My major beef is the current performance stats are only measured for the final destination. It is far more important for me and, I daresay, many others to know the performance stats for arrivals at key interchanges en route.

Example:
I frequently travel from Blackwater to Waterloo via Guildford, so it's in my interest for GWR and SWT's performance to be measured at this busy interchange.

 

[Mojo]

Sounds like something that only a tiny minority are actually pushing for, surely it is a bigger priority to get the trains within the existing benchmarks and to focus on speeding up recovery after big problems, rather than worrying about 60 second delays.

On a three hour journey, do that many people really care if the train arrives five minutes late? If you are at the middle of a coach on the country end of an 11-car Pendolino arriving into a busy Euston it could take you five minutes just to get to the barriers anyway.

I completely agree, I have never understood why the small few minutes upset so many people, it seems perfectly reasonable to me. To me, a few minutes here and there really isn't a significant issue, it is the massive and prolonged shut downs of the railway as a result of incidents that really need to be looked in to, and this seems to be something anecdotally that is getting worse and not better. The Tocs and Network Rail particularly need to look at speeding up of how they deal with incidents.

 

[Moonshot]

Stand by for a new statement for a delay of 2 minutes ......" this was caused by the train being driven under cautionary signal aspects "

 

[Moonshot]

I completely agree, I have never understood why the small few minutes upset so many people, it seems perfectly reasonable to me. To me, a few minutes here and there really isn't a significant issue, it is the massive and prolonged shut downs of the railway as a result of incidents that really need to be looked in to, and this seems to be something anecdotally that is getting worse and not better. The Tocs and Network Rail particularly need to look at speeding up of how they deal with incidents.

How would you speed up the following

1 Landslides
2 Suicides

 

[Z12XE]

Can you quantify some? Either as a % of services or a number. I'm guessing it won't be a very large number however you express it.

No but the east Anglia branch lines have an allowance to hold for connections.

 

[WelshBluebird]

On a three hour journey, do that many people really care if the train arrives five minutes late?.

If that is your connection time, then yes you do as that will leave your actual journey a lot later than just 5 minutes but that wouldn't be reflected in the PPM figures.

Granted maybe 5 minutes is a little short, but certainly isn't as crazy as it sounds. Certainly two journeys I do fairly often have connection times of 7 minutes and 8 minutes. A 5 minute delay certainly will make those connections hairy to say the least.

 

[The Planner]

In the BBC news report : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40635372



Would this be a GPS real time feed into TRUST, or some other system for historical reporting?

Don't see why it needs GPS, TRUST can report wherever you tell it to.

 

[Moonshot]

If that is your connection time, then yes you do as that will leave your actual journey a lot later than just 5 minutes but that wouldn't be reflected in the PPM figures.

Granted maybe 5 minutes is a little short, but certainly isn't as crazy as it sounds. Certainly two journeys I do fairly often have connection times of 7 minutes and 8 minutes. A 5 minute delay certainly will make those connections hairy to say the least.

Isnt that something you would realistically plan for anyway ? How many times have you missed your connections?

 

[Moonshot]

Don't see why it needs GPS, TRUST can report wherever you tell it to.

it does indeed

 

[cuccir]

Having experienced services which habitually run a couple of minutes late due to unrealistic journey times (the 16:41 Newcastle-Durham has not been on time once in the last 3 months, but has been within 15 minutes 63 of 65 times), I appreciate the sentiment. However, the 1 minute measurement seems gimmicky to me.

There are stations where it takes a good 30 seconds for a train to pull in along the length of the platform. And others where a service that's a couple of minutes late, which is rerouted to a platform nearer the entrance, can get you in earlier than an on-time train arriving at an outer platform.

Targets with unrealistic measurements result in practices that are focused on the measurement itself, rather than what the target is meant to achieve - a good service.I can only see this encouraging TOCs to try and get longer dwell times and to start closing doors 1-2 minutes before departure.

5 minutes would seem a more reasonable goal, that would achieve the aims of good service without fetishising the measurement.

 

[Eccles1983]

Its not going to change anything regarding how quickly you get to your destination.

Despite common belief drivers attempt to keep to time. But not at the expense of safety. So I will continue to drive the exact same way regardless of how many minutes I am going to be late.

And the delay slips will be filled out the same.

 

[Bertie the bus]

No but the east Anglia branch lines have an allowance to hold for connections.

An absolutely tiny number of trains are held then. So if these services are no longer held for connections just to improve the figures when 40% of trains don't arrive on time that would just show the pettiness and complete lack of customer service in the rail industry.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Isnt that something you would realistically plan for anyway ? How many times have you missed your connections?

Considering the other option is adding 30 - 60 minutes to my journey, yes I would. And NRE gives it as a valid connection anyway, so in my mind (and most of the travelling public's mind) it shouldn't matter if it is a realistic connection or not, it is one that is offered and so if the railway cannot deliver that then that should be shown in performance measurements.

 

[Moonshot]

Considering the other option is adding 30 - 60 minutes to my journey, yes I would. And NRE gives it as a valid connection anyway, so in my mind (and most of the travelling public's mind) it shouldn't matter if it is a realistic connection or not, it is one that is offered and so if the railway cannot deliver that then that should be shown in performance measurements.

I would have thought that if the long term aim of the industry is to improve train service frequency all over the UK, connection times become less of an issue ? What percentage of daily journeys made on the UK network actually involve a connection ?

 

[cuccir]

Its not going to change anything regarding how quickly you get to your destination.

Despite common belief drivers attempt to keep to time. But not at the expense of safety. So I will continue to drive the exact same way regardless of how many minutes I am going to be late.

And the delay slips will be filled out the same.

I don't think anyone believes that delays are caused by drivers driving slowly do they?

The desire of this would be to encourage TOCs to become more efficient in managing staff/stock availability, responding to delays outside their control, timetabling services etc etc.

 

[noddingdonkey]

The big news is monitoring delay at each station rather than the final destination. That should mean that season ticket holders between intermediate stations see the price reductions (and the TOC has an incentive to fix things) rather than just fudging the timetable with loads of recovery time between the last two stations.

 

[Moonshot]

I don't think anyone believes that delays are caused by drivers driving slowly do they?

The desire of this would be to encourage TOCs to become more efficient in managing staff/stock availability, responding to delays outside their control, timetabling services etc etc.

I can 100% categorically assure you that there is contingency built in to the everyday plan of operation for any TOC to respond to delays......and to give you just one example.....a train that arrives bang on time anywhere may well not have the original planned crew for that service.

Delays are sometimes caused by drivers driving slowly.....in response to cautionary aspects at distant signals for example.

 

[Moonshot]

The big news is monitoring delay at each station rather than the final destination. That should mean that season ticket holders between intermediate stations see the price reductions (and the TOC has an incentive to fix things) rather than just fudging the timetable with loads of recovery time between the last two stations.

Recovery time isnt always what it seems.....it may well be planned for pathing issues.

 

[Mojo]

How would you speed up the following

1 Landslides
2 Suicides

Person under train incidents can be sped up by having a much better relationship with the BTP. An Inspector, or similar grade, working alongside the Gold Control for an incident, possibly even sat within a control centre that can immediately review CCTV and in most cases can rule whether it is a suspicious incident or not. If not possible, he can direct officers working on the ground as they will be able to see the bigger picture. Often this can be one of the most prolonged parts of such an incident. Such working relationships are already well developed in some areas, where police drivers can "blue light" operational staff to incidents such as these to get trains running quickly.

Local station staff trained to undertake operational procedures such as detrainments or securing of points where necessary, and assisting with investigations when requested by Control if there is an incident in the vicinity of their station.

 

[87015]

Recovery time isnt always what it seems.....it may well be planned for pathing issues.

Then it pathing time and not other additional time in the schedule, very different on paper at least even if it has a similar outcome.

 

[Moonshot]

Person under train incidents can be sped up by having a much better relationship with the BTP. An Inspector, or similar grade, working alongside the Gold Control for an incident, possibly even sat within a control centre that can immediately review CCTV and in most cases can rule whether it is a suspicious incident or not. If not possible, he can direct officers working on the ground as they will be able to see the bigger picture. Often this can be one of the most prolonged parts of such an incident. Such working relationships are already well developed in some areas, where police drivers can "blue light" operational staff to incidents such as these to get trains running quickly.

Local station staff trained to undertake operational procedures such as detrainments or securing of points where necessary, and assisting with investigations when requested by Control if there is an incident in the vicinity of their station.

Train drivers have a protocol to follow when reporting in persons hit by train which aids the decison making process.

How would you get the " dignity team " to an incident any quicker?

How would you get a relief driver to the incident any quicker?

 

[Moonshot]

Then it pathing time and not other additional time in the schedule, very different on paper at least even if it has a similar outcome.

Which of course look the same on the public timetable. If a train is published to arrive at 8.30am in Manchester Victoria, then that is what the public expects. The fact that the timetable shows 13 minutes between ( for example ) Ashton U Lyne and MCV when it only takes 8 is of little interest to the passenger.

 

[ComUtoR]

I don't think anyone believes that delays are caused by drivers driving slowly do they?

Unfortunately, yes they do.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Which of course look the same on the public timetable. If a train is published to arrive at 8.30am in Manchester Victoria, then that is what the public expects. The fact that the timetable shows 13 minutes between ( for example ) Ashton U Lyne and MCV when it only takes 8 is of little interest to the passenger.

Again I disagree hugely. The passenger is interested when they end up waiting for those extra 5 minutes at a junction / going slowly / realise that they could be there 5 minutes quicker (and going back to my point earlier, maybe get an earlier connection).