GB Railfreight in 'locomotive acquisition' talks

[TimboM]

The contraction has been the unseemly race by the government to eliminate coal fired power stations.

That race is now virtually over. Most other traffics are increasing, so from now on the only way is up! (sounds like a song title).

We've got the largest construction project this country's ever seen just about to kick off to help that growth too I guess...
More effort needs to be done to get stuff off the roads though.

Regarding GBRf/60s etc., they're now owned/backed by a venture capitalist firm looking to invest strategically in pan-European rail, so suspect their outlook is somewhat more longer term than (say) DB's and they're looking at all this potential growth - and troubles of their competitors - and are willing to invest now for benefits a little further down the line.

 

[Train man]

What about the class 47's that were used on the sleepers during 2015/16. They should've kept them more for charter trains and the Scotsman

 

[CosherB]

What about the class 47's that were used on the sleepers during 2015/16. They should've kept them more for charter trains and the Scotsman

The five 47s used during the Lammington diversions of the CS were hire-ins from HNRC (locos then owned by Riviera), so they were never GBRF's to keep!

And what do GBRf want with 50-year old locos? Hardly in keeping with their traction policy.

 

[DarloRich]

The five 47s used during the Lammington diversions of the CS were hire-ins from HNRC (locos then owned by Riviera), so they were never GBRF's to keep!

And what do GBRf want with 50-year old locos? Hardly in keeping with their traction policy.

are they not now owned by ROGS?

 

[CosherB]

are they not now owned by ROGS?

Sure are!

Rail Operations Group has acquired five Class 47s. They are the first locomotives the company has bought outright, and they will complement Class 37/7s hired from Europhoenix.

ROG has bought the Type 4s from Riviera Trains. The locomotives (47812/815/843/847/848) are operational and could be used alongside a sixth Class 47, RAIL understands.

The first use of the ‘47s’ was on June 17-19, when 47812 and 47848 Titan Star were used to move the last rake of overhauled Great Western Railway High Speed Train Mk 3s from Wabtec Rail’s Brush Barclay at Kilmarnock to GWR’s Laira depot near Plymouth.

ROG has bought the locomotives to meet its expanding operations.

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2016/06/21/rail-operations-group-buys-five-class-47s

 

[RichmondCommu]

The contraction has been the unseemly race by the government to eliminate coal fired power stations.

That race is now virtually over. Most other traffics are increasing, so from now on the only way is up! (sounds like a song title).

Clearly Drax is currently taking in a lot of biomass but that will close in 2025 if not before along with all the other coal fired power stations. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the coal mine that is proposed to start production in West Cumbria.

In terms of intermodal I would have thought capacity problems at Southampton and Felixstowe need to be solved before we can see anymore growth there.

We've seen some new petroleum type flows start but we've also lost some.

The only area where I can see real growth is in construction.

 

[furnessvale]

Clearly Drax is currently taking in a lot of biomass but that close in 2025 if not before along with all the other coal fired power stations.

I thought the converted part of Drax was exempt from closure. Additionally, aren't Drax looking at full conversion to biomass?
It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the coal mine that is proposed to start production in West Cumbria.

The plans indicate up to 6 trains daily. Given that it is high quality coking coal, rail seems the obvious transport method

In terms of intermodal I would have thought capacity problems at Southampton and Felixstowe need to be solved before we can see anymore growth there.

Extra capacity at Felixstowe is already approved upping train numbers from 33 to 45 daily each way. Tilbury are looking to reinstate trains to Midlands and Scotland

We've seen some new petroleum type flows start but we've also lost some.

The only area where I can see real growth is in construction.

(Comments added in red in body of quote)

 

[Mordac]

Clearly Drax is currently taking in a lot of biomass but that close in 2025 if not before along with all the other coal fired power stations. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the coal mine that is proposed to start production in West Cumbria.

In terms of intermodal I would have thought capacity problems at Southampton and Felixstowe need to be solved before we can see anymore growth there.

We've seen some new petroleum type flows start but we've also lost some.

The only area where I can see real growth is in construction.

If they change to only biomass, they won't be a coal fired power station anymore, though.

 

[CosherB]

Clearly Drax is currently taking in a lot of biomass but that close in 2025 if not before along with all the other coal fired power stations. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the coal mine that is proposed to start production in West Cumbria.

Where does it say that Drax will close in 2025? It is continuing to be modified for co-firing with coal and biomass so it doesn't have to close (in theory) along with the coal-only power stations. Also, Drax produces 7% of the UK electricity so it is a nationally important facility.

Whether you see the burning of wood pellets sourced from the US and Canada as 'environmentally friendly' is a different argument altogether!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Where does it say that Drax will close in 2025? It is continuing to be modified for co-firing with coal and biomass so it doesn't have to close (in theory) along with the coal-only power stations. Also, Drax produces 7% of the UK electricity so it is a nationally important facility.

Whether you see the burning of wood pellets sourced from the US and Canada as 'environmentally friendly' is a different argument altogether!

The Government has made it very clear that it plans to close all coal fired power stations by 2025.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If they change to only biomass, they won't be a coal fired power station anymore, though.

Is that likely to happen?

 

[RichmondCommu]

(Comments added in red in body of quote)

Regarding the West Cumbrian coal mine I agree that shifting the coal by rail is the most sensible way forward, I'm querying whether the mine will actually start producing coal. I'll believe it when I see it.

Just out of interest what plans are in place to improve capacity at Felixstowe? I'd always understood that the key constraint at Felixstowe was the single track branch line to Westerfield. Is that now going to be doubled?

 

[ac6000cw]

Just out of interest what plans are in place to improve capacity at Felixstowe? I'd always understood that the key constraint at Felixstowe was the single track branch line to Westerfield. Is that now going to be doubled?

It's planned to get some capacity improvements - as far as I remember basically a long 'dynamic loop' between Derby Road and Trimley, changes to the junction layout at Trimley, and both lines through Derby Road becoming bi-directional. However I think there have been planning objections to closing several minor level crossings so I don't know how far advanced the project actually is. See https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/anglia/felixstowe-branch-line/ and https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/R...-planning/Suffolk-Rail-Conference-Freight.pdf

 

[furnessvale]

The Government has made it very clear that it plans to close all coal fired power stations by 2025.

It is not simply a matter of burning biomass instead of coal in the same boiler. The boilers burning bio have been converted and more are to follow. They are then not coal burners and count as renewable. They are not scheduled for closure by 2025.

 

[CosherB]

It is not simply a matter of burning biomass instead of coal in the same boiler. The boilers burning bio have been converted and more are to follow. They are then not coal burners and count as renewable. They are not scheduled for closure by 2025.

Indeed! You should also see the gigantic concrete silos that have been built to hold the biomass before being fed to the boiler burners. Impressive stuff!

https://www.drax.com/technology/how-do-you-build-a-dome-bigger-than-the-albert-hall/

The Government has made it very clear that it plans to close all coal fired power stations by 2025.

Thank you for completely ignoring what I had written.

 

[xotGD]

Freightliner has a line of half a dozen 70s sat in Leeds going sweet FA...

 

[RichmondCommu]

It is not simply a matter of burning biomass instead of coal in the same boiler. The boilers burning bio have been converted and more are to follow. They are then not coal burners and count as renewable. They are not scheduled for closure by 2025.

Thank you for completely ignoring what I had written.

Drax stated in February 2016 that the remaining three boilers would only be converted to biomass if they received Government assistance. They also suggested that unless the work was done in the next two years the boilers would have deteriorated to such an extent that conversion would no longer be possible.

If the Government is not prepared to give financial subsidies to fund the conversion who's to say that Drax would not simply build a new power station next to a port which would save transporting biomass by rail? Not only that but those turbines won't last forever so what happens then?

 

[CosherB]

If the Government is not prepared to give financial subsidies to fund the conversion who's to say that Drax would not simply build a new power station next to a port which would save transporting biomass by rail? Not only that but those turbines won't last forever so what happens then?

Port of Liverpool has spent in the region of £100 million on biomass handling facilities. Where in Merseyside do you propose to build a new power station that won't require rail transport for the biomass?

Or are we to start from scratch and blow a few billion here and there? Is your name Jeremy Corbyn?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Port of Liverpool has spent in the region of £100 million on biomass handling facilities. Where in Merseyside do you propose to build a new power station that won't require rail transport for the biomass?

Why would the power station need to be built on Merseyside? As I understand it both Immingham and the Port Of Tyne both import biomass so who's to say it couldn't be built there? Plenty of land around Immingham. And I don't think Drax could care less how much money the Port Of Liverpool has spent.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Or are we to start from scratch and blow a few billion here and there? Is your name Jeremy Corbyn?

Please stop being silly. As far as I know the Government didn't fund the biomass facilities so its all private money and what has Jeremy Corbyn got to do with this?

 

[CosherB]

Why would the power station need to be built on Merseyside? As I understand it both Immingham and the Port Of Tyne both import biomass so who's to say it couldn't be built there? Plenty of land around Immingham. And I don't think Drax could care less how much money the Port Of Liverpool has spent.

That's a very 'southern' view, if I may say so.

 

[RichmondCommu]

That's a very 'southern' view, if I may say so.

In what way is that a "southern view"?

 

[DarloRich]

Freightliner has a line of half a dozen 70s sat in Leeds going sweet FA...

aren't they awaiting their turn in the reliability modifications queue?

 

[cj_1985]

aren't they awaiting their turn in the reliability modifications queue?

Personally i wouldn't put it past Colas to buy or sub lease some for their growing portfolio of work, especially as their 70s seem to be working well...

 

[CosherB]

I guess it's inevitable that, with a number of FL 70s parked up (for whatever reasons) and Colas having 17 of them seemingly all now in traffic, that speculation will arise that FL will offload some or all of their 70s to Colas. I can't seeing it happening, however, as FL don't have any other heavy haul locos, other than the 70s, to call on.

In theory, it may make sense for Colas to swap their five 66 for five FL 70s. It would be ironic as FL used to operate these Sheds!

 

[xotGD]

Please stop being silly. As far as I know the Government didn't fund the biomass facilities so its all private money and what has Jeremy Corbyn got to do with this?

The CAPEX of conversion was all from Drax. However, the conversions only happened because of the available subsidies for 'green' wood-fueled power generation.

Without subsidy, in one form or another, it isn't commercially attractive to convert from coal to biomass.

Lynemouth has also been granted a operational subsidy, hence the conversion to biomass there. The fuel will come through Port of Tyne.

New-build plants tend to be to a different design, and use wood chips rather than wood pellets.

 

[TimboM]

On a slight tangent, it looks like we have yet another variation of the GBRf livery on a 66 ..... attached photo (not mine) showing 66775 in it's 'new' colours.

66775

Maybe Europorte were not that keen on the look of 92028!

Indeed they do, hence my speculated chagrin from GBRfs previous owner!

Somewhat OT, but on this point, worth noting 92028 was painted into the GBRf/Europorte version of the livery (like 92032 less the "polo mints") well over 2 years ago: https://flic.kr/p/EwmSgR

When it was finally ready to come out a couple of months back (with Europorte having sold GBRf in the meantime) they've evidently chosen to do few tweaks to remove the logos and the red parts on the rounded ends on the side rather than a full repaint: https://flic.kr/p/WoqEef

The "rounded ends" on the side which most 66s carry still are obviously an echo of the Europorte logo. So I'm assuming 66775 is the first one with a full repaint since the sale (or at least I'm aware of), and the livery has been 'squared-off' similar to the original GBRf colours (thus completely removing the Europorte link).

I would imagine it's more the cost or repainting etc. rather than any issues Europorte have with a livery that still has a nod to GBRf's past. Let's face it, 92032 is still running around with the full Europorte logos + polo mints on! https://flic.kr/p/UjPqRD

Will be interesting to see which variant 92043 emerges in from Loughborough... would expect it to be the 'latest' 66775 version.

 

[CosherB]

I daresay 66775 will be the 'new' livery. A bit disappointing as it's just an application of slabs of colour, lacking the detail of the previous incarnation. At least it still looks smart and distinctive.

 

[TimboM]

I daresay 66775 will be the 'new' livery. A bit disappointing as it's just an application of slabs of colour, lacking the detail of the previous incarnation. At least it still looks smart and distinctive.

I suspect it is. Looking at it, they may also be able to "convert" just by repainting the cab-sides and squaring it off just to the other side of the door, should they want to do it 'on the cheap' across the rest of the fleet. That said, GBRf tend to do a decent job of their liveries (unlike some FOCs...!)

 

[ABB125]

I believe there are lots of class 67s with no work at the moment.....