RailSail - Penzance to Belfast Port

[shotayo]

Good Morning,

Can someone please confirm that the price for a single Penzance to Belfast Port via Ayr is £54.00.

My search on the NRE brings back a price of £108.00.

Thanks in advance

 

[Lrd]

Using the ScotRail website shows the £54 fare

 

[Hadders]

An Anytime Day Single is £54, an Anytime Return is £108.

 

[neilmc]

If I didn't get seasick I'd say this is the best rail bargain in the whole country.

 

[najaB]

If I didn't get seasick I'd say this is the best rail bargain in the whole country.

Shhh!!! Don't let the pricing managers find out!

 

[najaB]

My search on the NRE brings back a price of £108.00.

That's probably an Anytime Return to take advantage of the outward portion being valid across multiple days since you'd struggle to get from Penzance to Ayr by 1700 (last bus to Cairnryan being at 1705).

 

[najaB]

My search on the NRE brings back a price of £108.00.

If you click the 'Earlier trains' option you'll get the £54 price against the 0505 departure from Penzance.

 

[Segedunum]

I assume that this isn't very valid to start or end short (say from Penzance to Ayr only)

 

[Hadders]

I assume that this isn't very valid to start or end short (say from Penzance to Ayr only)

These tickets aren't valid for break of journey and if there's abuse of them the fares are likely to be withdrawn.

 

[Segedunum]

These tickets aren't valid for break of journey and if there's abuse of them the fares are likely to be withdrawn.

Thought not, considering their extremely low price. Might have a gander at Belfast at some point in future nonetheless.

 

[najaB]

These tickets aren't valid for break of journey and if there's abuse of them the fares are likely to be withdrawn.

With the Anytime fare from Penzance to Ayr being only a mere £109 more than the fare to Belfast you can see why pricing managers will be looking for any reason they can find to withdraw these fares.

 

[signallerscot]

But if you got off the train and passed through the barriers at Ayr then subsequently failed to board the bus for Cairnryan, how would the railway find out about it? In any case why does a Penzance to Belfast via Ayr ticket exist... surely demand for that journey must be absolutely minimal.

 

[neilmc]

These tickets aren't valid for break of journey and if there's abuse of them the fares are likely to be withdrawn.

Can anyone show where such a ticket isn't valid for BOJ? When I go on to the NRE website it tells me that such a ticket is an "Anytime Day Single" which the same website tells me IS valid for BOJ.

Though it's not showing this via the 05:05 train unless I ask for an earlier journey to the one it brings up (08:28 from Penzance with a fare of £108 and an overnight journey).

The only restriction I can find is that you can't take an animal on the bus connection from Ayr to Cairnryan which rather begs the question of how you can do SailRail with an animal at all.

 

[gnolife]

The only restriction I can find is that you can't take an animal on the bus connection from Ayr to Cairnryan which rather begs the question of how you can do SailRail with an animal at all.

You can stick a dog in onboard kennels on Stems Line ferries, costing £15 each way.

 

[najaB]

Can anyone show where such a ticket isn't valid for BOJ?

Here you go: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PNZ&dest=BFC&grpd=M190&rte=989&tkt=SDS

...which rather begs the question of how you can do SailRail with an animal at all.

You'd have to pay for a taxi or take the public bus from Ayr to Cairnryan.

 

[bangor-toad]

Can anyone show where such a ticket isn't valid for BOJ? When I go on to the NRE website it tells me that such a ticket is an "Anytime Day Single" which the same website tells me IS valid for BOJ.

Though it's not showing this via the 05:05 train unless I ask for an earlier journey to the one it brings up (08:28 from Penzance with a fare of £108 and an overnight journey).

The only restriction I can find is that you can't take an animal on the bus connection from Ayr to Cairnryan which rather begs the question of how you can do SailRail with an animal at all.

Hi there,
The SailRail "Anytime" tickets have a restriction code of 1X. Look it up here:
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PNZ&dest=BFA&grpd=M190&rte=989&tkt=SOR
The key bit is:

Restriction Code: 1X
Applicable days
All days

OUTWARD AND RETURN TRAVEL

Valid at any time
Break of journey not permitted except to change trains.



Booking Sailrail tickets is often not entirely straightforward. You are seeing some of the challenges already. When you ask for a trip it is often a good idea to click the Earlier and Later buttons to see what's about.
Also, as you've seen, the single fares are trickier to get to come up as some itineraries can't be done in a day. For return tickets you get 3 days (although technically without break of journey!) to complete the outward leg and no-one really cares about what you do on the return.

But if you got off the train and passed through the barriers at Ayr then subsequently failed to board the bus for Cairnryan, how would the railway find out about it?

When you check in for the ferry at Cairnryan they take your train ticket. This allows a comparison of the number collected vs the number sold.
They really are very inflexible about this - don't give them the ticket and you won't get a ferry boarding pass.

The only restriction I can find is that you can't take an animal on the bus connection from Ayr to Cairnryan which rather begs the question of how you can do SailRail with an animal at all.

Technically the answer is you can't. (unless it's a Guide dog of course).
However, there is a way to do it; If you get an additional ticket from Ayr to Stranraer (£11.10) you can then get the 350 bus from Stranraer to the ferry terminal. Apparently you can take a dog on the 350 service and then book a kennel on the ferry (but you'd need to do that separately and I've never tried it)

Minor rant: I did a SailRail trip yesterday and as I was early decided to do the Ayr-Stranraer train for a bit of random sightseeing. The 350 bus in Stranraer never turned up! Grrr. Luckily the 3 of us waiting found a taxi so it worked out but it was rather annoying.
Oh, the ferry crossing was absolutely smooth.


I use SailRail tickets to/from Belfast quite often when I've got the time. It's cheap but very long compared to flying. Of course it is a fixed price that doesn't vary with demand which means I often choose it when the flight prices are really high (like yesterday) but out of peak times you can get a one way flight to Belfast for well under £54.
This is why the demand for SailRail has massively shrunk and it's a marvellous oddity to try if you never have.

If you do decide to come, enjoy both the trip and your stay.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[shotayo]

Thanks everybody for your advice/responses.

Regards

 

[Flicka]

But if you got off the train and passed through the barriers at Ayr then subsequently failed to board the bus for Cairnryan, how would the railway find out about it? In any case why does a Penzance to Belfast via Ayr ticket exist... surely demand for that journey must be absolutely minimal.

Exactly what I was thinking.

If I was living in Penzance and had a long distance trip to anywhere along the route (say Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow), I'd just buy one of these tickets and save myself a considerable about money.

I know there is a BoJ restriction, but what are the consequences if you get 'caught' leaving a station early?

Surely this type of ticket is open to abuse.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Exactly what I was thinking.

If I was living in Penzance and had a long distance trip to anywhere along the route (say Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow), I'd just buy one of these tickets and save myself a considerable about money.

I know there is a BoJ restriction, but what are the consequences if you get 'caught' leaving a station early?

Surely this type of ticket is open to abuse.

I guess if lots of people on the internet encourage it to be abused, and lots of people then abuse it, said ticket might not have much of a future.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Newcastle to Belfast was £24 there and £23 back with EasyJet last November


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bb21]

Exactly what I was thinking.

If I was living in Penzance and had a long distance trip to anywhere along the route (say Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow), I'd just buy one of these tickets and save myself a considerable about money.

I know there is a BoJ restriction, but what are the consequences if you get 'caught' leaving a station early?

Surely this type of ticket is open to abuse.

Nothing.

If people abuse it then eventually it will be withdrawn, and then genuine customers will have to pay more.

It is all down to your own conscience.

 

[greatkingrat]

Nothing.

If people abuse it then eventually it will be withdrawn, and then genuine customers will have to pay more.

It is all down to your own conscience.

You can of course take the view that it is right that people genuinely travelling from Penzance to Belfast pay more than someone travelling from Penzance to Birmingham and there is no particular reason why journeys involving a ferry should be uniquely subsidised.

 

[bb21]

You can of course take the view that it is right that people genuinely travelling from Penzance to Belfast pay more than someone travelling from Penzance to Birmingham and there is no particular reason why journeys involving a ferry should be uniquely subsidised.

I won't answer that. There is not always a right answer.

As I said, all down to one's conscience, but talking out loud about abusing such tickets on a forum like this one probably isn't a good idea.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Its absurd that the ticket is priced as a day single with the system trying to sell you a return ticket if you can't complete outward travel on the same day. No wonder it puts people off...

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[najaB]

Its absurd that the ticket is priced as a day single with the system trying to sell you a return ticket if you can't complete outward travel on the same day.

You can travel later in the day for just £7 more if you go via Liverpool.

 

[neilmc]

Exactly what I was thinking.

If I was living in Penzance and had a long distance trip to anywhere along the route (say Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow), I'd just buy one of these tickets and save myself a considerable about money.

I know there is a BoJ restriction, but what are the consequences if you get 'caught' leaving a station early?

Surely this type of ticket is open to abuse.

Let's be realistic though ... what kind of demand is there for a ticket which involves a huge detour around South-West Scotland and an inconvenient bus ride from Ayr since the ferry stopped running from Stranraer, and thus any idea of reinstating the direct rail line from Carlisle to Stranraer has probably now gone for ever? I don't think any sane person living south of Carlisle would even consider it, it's a mammoth and inconvenient day involving either overnight travel or arriving in Belfast extremely late at night for almost everyone. Only reason I could think for using the ferry rather than flying is so you can take your dog, which is not allowed on the link bus to Cairnryan!

If the ticket disappears, so be it - the concept that by offering a Sailrail ticket with a maximum price of £54 from the depths of Cornwall will somehow compete with a quick and cheap journey which can be done from major city airports in England is flawed. Basically Irish sea ferries are now for road vehicles rather than foot passengers.

And can a BoJ restriction reasonably be enforced on such a long journey when you will need two or three food stops?

 

[Greenback]

I don't doubt that the market for SailRail tickets is a very small one. In the case of Cronwall to Belfast viua Cairnryan it must be miniscule, and largely confined to those very few people who do it for the journey itself, rather than taking a flight.

There is a market, though, however tiny it might be, and if the rail and ferry companies are happy to offer a through ticket for the convenience of those who may not wish to fly, then that's fine by me. I've met quite a few people on the Fishguard to Rosslare crossing who continue to use the ferries as foot passengers for one reason or another. In my case, a journey from Llanelli to somewhere like Waterford or even Cork isn't much slower by sea than it would be by air. I suspect that even going to Cork wouldn't be too uncompetitive by rail, ferry and bus, though I haven't looked into it.

 

[Flying Snail]

You can of course take the view that it is right that people genuinely travelling from Penzance to Belfast pay more than someone travelling from Penzance to Birmingham and there is no particular reason why journeys involving a ferry should be uniquely subsidised.

You could apply that logic to a very large % of tickets sold across the country.

Why should people able to book 3 months in advance get a cheaper ticket for a 400 mile journey than someone on the same train only making a 50 mile trip?

The answer to both is that the prices for fares are not based on mileage, they are set to capture specific markets.

To say the sailrail fares are subsidised is also incorrect, no public body or other passengers are paying extra to allow sailrail passengers be carried.

The truth is the fares are there partially as a legacy of the once busy connections and are kept as a small amount of extra income utilising mainly spare capacity is better than nothing for both rail and ferry operators.

If the fares were priced at the same level of walk-up rail single/return + ferry foot passenger + bus link there would be near zero demand as it would just be too high in comparison with alternatives. It would be a perfect example of a no win situation, both rail and ferry operators would loose revenue and the passengers who do currently enjoy the useful service would be forced onto airlines or coach services.

 

[Flying Snail]

Let's be realistic though ... what kind of demand is there for a ticket which involves a huge detour around South-West Scotland and an inconvenient bus ride from Ayr since the ferry stopped running from Stranraer, and thus any idea of reinstating the direct rail line from Carlisle to Stranraer has probably now gone for ever?

I am sorry but asking others to be realistic while suggesting that re-opening Carlisle - Stranraer as a serious proposition takes some neck.

Stranraer is very fortunate to still have a rail line at all since the closure of the ferry terminal.

I don't think any sane person living south of Carlisle would even consider it, it's a mammoth and inconvenient day involving either overnight travel or arriving in Belfast extremely late at night for almost everyone. Only reason I could think for using the ferry rather than flying is so you can take your dog, which is not allowed on the link bus to Cairnryan!

Just because you do not like the route doesn't mean everyone else has the same opinion.

While the traffic is a fraction of what it once was there is a steady flow of ship-rail passengers on all of the Irish Sea routes, very very few of which bring a dog.

If the ticket disappears, so be it - the concept that by offering a Sailrail ticket with a maximum price of £54 from the depths of Cornwall will somehow compete with a quick and cheap journey which can be done from major city airports in England is flawed. Basically Irish sea ferries are now for road vehicles rather than foot passengers.

Nobody expects that journeys such as Cornwall-Belfast via Cairnryan will attract any significant numbers however the idea that sailrail offers any available journey for a set zonal rate is a good simple product that remains viable despite the proliferation of (usually) cheap Airlines.

Yes the ferries are primarily for vehicles but most of them can be 100% full with vehicles and still have capacity for several hundred more passengers. In the 1980s Irish sea ferries were typically in the 5,000-10,000 ton range now there are ferries up to 50,000 tons on the same routes.

The extra income from sailrail tickets is low but it is close to free to provide the service and they can also expect to sell food and drink to those passengers as well.