Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Clarence Yard]

Isn't the issue (with both the 150s due to transfer to Northern and the 143s and 153s due to go off-lease) that there are not enough 387s in service to allow a large enough internal cascade of 16xs yet, which should be rectified once the Thames Valley wiring is complete?

I imagine extra service 'from next year' will mean from May 2019 if the cascaded trains aren't available in time. GWR won't secure D-Trains for a delay in existing DMUs being released, unless there's some plan to send them elsewhere once the existing DMUs become available.

When the Turbos get to Bristol en masse next January as a result of Didcot being electrified, 12 x cl.150/1 2 car units will head quickly north, following the 3 x 150/1 2 car units that should go this autumn. That puts the Northern cascade back on schedule with the final 2 cl.150/1 2 car units due to go, as originally planned, in December 2018.

There will be 15x units spare for operating the Okehampton service in 2018 without affecting the Northern cascade. That is without considering the 9 cl.153 units that GWR are handing back to the ROSCO next March.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Either way its all a bit irrelevant now, and as has already been pointed out despite all the Vivarail propaganda actual public announced orders is Zero.

Noting what you say, normally if a manufacturer secures a new contract, their PR department ensures that such news receives full coverage in the usual channels but it appears that Vivarail in their earlier statements of orders already secured seemed to want to embargo information with a seemingly commercial confidentiality phrase. Most strange indeed.

 

[Techniquest]

Noting what you say, normally if a manufacturer secures a new contract, their PR department ensures that such news receives full coverage in the usual channels but it appears that Vivarail in their earlier statements of orders already secured seemed to want to embargo information with a seemingly commercial confidentiality phrase. Most strange indeed.

Seems every time I open this thread I find some less than pleasant comment from yourself, and I'm certain I'm not the only one finding such a thing to not just be getting old but worthy of using the eye-rolling emoticon :roll:

Personally I can't wait for the 230s to find use somewhere and to have a spin on them. Whatever reason Vivarail have for not announcing who's ordered them and so on, it's their business decision and your constant slating them for it is not going to change their minds on that.

 

[northwichcat]

Whatever reason Vivarail have for not announcing who's ordered them and so on

Has anyone ordered any? Despite the length of the thread there's been no confirmed reports of any order being made, just a few mentions of x and y having a look at the D-Train option and the trial unit being used by LM when it's eventually ready.

 

[HLE]

That's pretty much it to be honest.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

According to the Lancashire Telegraph Northern's Liam Sumpter has admitted Blackburn depot will get some 'refurbished underground trains'.

.__30million_pound_rail_investment_in_Blackburn_creates_more_than_100_new_train_jobs

....Mr Sumpter said as well as refurbished London underground trains being used on the East Lancashire line from Preston through Blackburn, Accrington and Burnley to Colne to replace 30-year-old Pacers by 2019, some could be brand new units....

...."We have spent £28m on the new depot in Blackburn, which will house all our diesel trains, including the refurbished underground units and brand-new ones from CAF, which could be seen on the East Lancashire line.

 

[ac6000cw]

This is a link to the story - http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/15416963.__30million_pound_rail_investment_in_Blackburn_creates_more_than_100_new_train_jobs/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. I wonder if that's a misinterpretation or he's going to get kicked for breaking an embargo

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This is a link to the story - http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/15416963.__30million_pound_rail_investment_in_Blackburn_creates_more_than_100_new_train_jobs/

Thank you. Still getting used to my new phone.

 

[ac6000cw]

It also says in the story:

Virtually the whole of the North West diesel fleet will be based in Blackburn with new electric trains homed in Allerton, Liverpool.

...so what is happening at/to Newton Heath in the future?

 

[northwichcat]

It also says in the story:



...so what is happening at/to Newton Heath in the future?

I think we can question the reliability of the article. It also suggests all the EMUs at Allerton will be brand new, so they are implying one of:
1. The 319s all being converted to 769s.
2. The 319s all being released.
3. The 319s being transferred East.

None of those options seem very likely.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Class 195 are supposed to be based at Newton Heath, class 331 are supposed to be based at Allerton.

 

[northwichcat]

Class 195 are supposed to be based at Newton Heath, class 331 are supposed to be based at Allerton.

My guess is Liam Sumpter talked about brand new trains, diesel trains new to the franchise and also mentioned ex-Thameslink trains getting diesel engines and the journalist interpreted that as him talking about brand new trains and refurbished Underground trains.

 

[Gareth Marston]

My guess is Liam Sumpter talked about brand new trains, diesel trains new to the franchise and also mentioned ex-Thameslink trains getting diesel engines and the journalist interpreted that as him talking about brand new trains and refurbished Underground trains.

319's are of course ex Thameslink and go in a tunnel in London so there therefore ex Underground stock - simples

 

[Bantamzen]

My guess is Liam Sumpter talked about brand new trains, diesel trains new to the franchise and also mentioned ex-Thameslink trains getting diesel engines and the journalist interpreted that as him talking about brand new trains and refurbished Underground trains.

I think that's a fair assumption. VivaRail would not have been able to contain their excitement had they really got a contract with Arriva. I think this is a case of a newspaper adding 2 & 2 and getting 230....

 

[northwichcat]

With any luck, some humble pie may soon be on the menu down Knutsford way...

I know better than to trust a story from a Newsquest publication when the topic is the railways. If it was mentioned on the DfT, Vivarail or Northern websites I would believe it was the plan but in the absence of a mention on any of those the source sounds questionable to me. My local Newsquest publication recently printed a load of rubbish in an article about bus services simply because the 'journalist' couldn't convert times from 24 hour clock to the 12 hour clock correctly.

 

[THC]

I know better than to trust a story from a Newsquest publication when the topic is the railways. If it was mentioned on the DfT, Vivarail or Northern websites I would believe it was the plan but in the absence of a mention on any of those the source sounds questionable to me. My local Newsquest publication recently printed a load of rubbish in an article about bus services simply because the 'journalist' couldn't convert times from 24 hour clock to the 12 hour clock correctly.

Comment removed but not before you managed to see it. Decided it was better not to engage in "debate" with the poster concerned, although I see that the LT story has worried him - or someone very local to him - enough to post a comment on the story itself.

THC

 

[northwichcat]

Comment removed but not before you managed to see it. Decided it was better not to engage in "debate" with the poster concerned, although I see that the LT story has worried him - or someone very local to him - enough to post a comment on the story itself.

THC

Did you mean Knutsford or Prestbury?

 

[Bornin1980s]

My local Newsquest publication recently printed a load of rubbish in an article about bus services simply because the 'journalist' couldn't convert times from 24 hour clock to the 12 hour clock correctly.

How far out was he?

I also wonder if the 'ex underground' trains are the 319s. Isn't some of the Thameslink network underground?

 

[northwichcat]

How far out was he?

Comparing the last bus times from Macclesfield and Leighton hospital they converted 17:50 for Macclesfield hospital to 7:50 but correctly converted 20:50 to 8:50 making it look like Macclesfield hospital buses finished 1 hour earlier, opposed to 3 hours earlier.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did you mean Knutsford or Prestbury?

Certainly nothing to do with this particular website member

 

[philthetube]

The one thing which makes me think this story sounds slightly plausible is that the planned use is stated for being on the East Lancs line, somewhere that nothing new arriving at Northern will venture.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I know better than to trust a story from a Newsquest publication when the topic is the railways. If it was mentioned on the DfT, Vivarail or Northern websites I would believe it was the plan but in the absence of a mention on any of those the source sounds questionable to me. My local Newsquest publication recently printed a load of rubbish in an article about bus services simply because the 'journalist' couldn't convert times from 24 hour clock to the 12 hour clock correctly.

Has anyone sought clarification from the Newsquest publication concerned?

 

[simple simon]

How far out was he?

I also wonder if the 'ex underground' trains are the 319s. Isn't some of the Thameslink network underground?

Indeed it is, especially through the central core - St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink. Albeit subsurface (not 'deep level' tube lines).

This route includes the Widened Lines which were built by the Metropolitan Railway and until the advent of Thameslink was owned by London Transport. In addition, for a while the eastbound track was electrified (3rd & 4th rail system), although it was only used by Metropolitan Railway / Line trains that terminated at Moorgate.

Simon

 

[asylumxl]

Not to be pedantic, but I'm not sure I'd even really describe Farringdon as subsurface...

But I suppose that's mildly O/T.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[The Ham]

Given that the 230's were envisaged as a way to bridge the gap between the shortage of DMU's and electrification making enough DMU's available, does the reduction in electrification going forward make the use of 230's more or less likely?

(For the clinical, are there any links between friends of government ministers and those set to benefit from the 230's?)

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would hope there are no brown envelopes at this stage but one never knows.

Also worth noting that berried deap in the ATW 319 flex announcement was a tiny tiny mention of more stock on the way with absolutely no further detail at all. Could this be the mystery order Vivarail say they have?

 

[Clip]

I would hope there are no brown envelopes at this stage but one never knows.

Also worth noting that berried deap in the ATW 319 flex announcement was a tiny tiny mention of more stock on the way with absolutely no further detail at all. Could this be the mystery order Vivarail say they have?

I guess all we can do is sit back and wait to see now.

If they get an order then great, if not then its a bit of a shame but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

At least its another company that is allowed to build/convert trains to run on the railway

 

[CosherB]

Given that the 230's were envisaged as a way to bridge the gap between the shortage of DMU's and electrification making enough DMU's available, does the reduction in electrification going forward make the use of 230's more or less likely?

I very much doubt it, plenty of 319s (and 455s) will still be available to 'Flex'.

 

[jimm]

(For the clinical, are there any links between friends of government ministers and those set to benefit from the 230's?)

I would hope there are no brown envelopes at this stage but one never knows.

Frankly both of you should be ashamed of yourselves for posting something calling the integrity of people into question in that way.

The people behind Vivarail took a commercial risk on the idea of converting the D-trains, knowing from the word go that the idea might pay off, or it might not.

If it doesn't, then there will be a lot of coaches going for scrap, which was what would have happened already, had Vivarail not acquired them.