Willesden Euroterminal

[jordanw241]

Hey everyone,

I'm currently writing a piece about the Willesden Euroterminal, and bar from a couple of webpages online, I can't seem to find out much about it. Can anyone point me in the right direction, or know anything about it they can post here?

Thank you!

 

[RichmondCommu]

I bet it hasn't been used in at least a decade and yet those cranes alone must have cost a fortune.

I think part of it is now used as a virtual quarry.

 

[coppercapped]

It was built, together with several others around the country, as part of the preparations for railfreight through the Channel Tunnel.

Try looking through back copies of the rail press of the time, Railway Magazine, Modern Railways and so on.

 

[Boodiggy]

It is still used. Roads 1-8 (nearest WCML) are used by High Output (ballast cleaner and TRS) which are currently working on Western Route.
The back roads (out of sight but below yellow cranes no longer in use) have regular spoil trains that are unloaded and the plan is to run trains out of Euston with spoil once HS2 works kick off.
I believe there is also a cement train that runs in there too.
Hope that helps

 

[The Planner]

HOBC has to move out as part of HS2.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It was originally one of the big 3 London Freightliner depots (Stratford , and Kings Cross being the others) , on the site of Willesden Motive Power depot , - opened circa 1967. Freightliners origin raised d'etre was internal domestic traffic , but though WDN was well located in North West London , which then had considerable manufacturing business , it never really built up a massive core of business. Trains ran to Manchester , Liverpool , Holyhead ,Swansea and of course Glasgow. Attempts at short haul "deep seas" traffic never really took off (I used to send the odd special from Felixstowe) ...so it ran down.


Reborne for the Channel Tunnel with services to Italy and Spain , refurbished at vast cost - and as we know - now merely used for non revenue earning traffics. Someone , somewhere will know why it failed in the new birth.

 

[DarloRich]

what are you writing it for and what angle? I would suggest you start with the NR press office as the sight is used by the High Out Put Train. That should then open up a few more lines of enquiry.

 

[swt_passenger]

Kent Rail have a few snippets: http://www.kentrail.org.uk/willesden_euro-terminal.html

So in summary, it never got much use, and is no longer used for its expensive purpose. The gantry cranes make a colourful contribution to some local views, but are probably rusted solid...

 

[muddythefish]

It was originally one of the big 3 London Freightliner depots (Stratford , and Kings Cross being the others) , on the site of Willesden Motive Power depot , - opened circa 1967. Freightliners origin raised d'etre was internal domestic traffic , but though WDN was well located in North West London , which then had considerable manufacturing business , it never really built up a massive core of business. Trains ran to Manchester , Liverpool , Holyhead ,Swansea and of course Glasgow. Attempts at short haul "deep seas" traffic never really took off (I used to send the odd special from Felixstowe) ...so it ran down.


Reborne for the Channel Tunnel with services to Italy and Spain , refurbished at vast cost - and as we know - now merely used for non revenue earning traffics. Someone , somewhere will know why it failed in the new birth.

Sad tale, remember seeing Freightliners heading in and out of the terminal.

Why has internal domestic Frieghtliner traffic virtually disappeared - although manufacturing has declined, food etc still needs to be shifted. ?

 

[furnessvale]

Why has internal domestic Frieghtliner traffic virtually disappeared - although manufacturing has declined, food etc still needs to be shifted. ?

FLL decided their future lay in deep sea containers.

Fortunately, others have taken up the challenge with services to DIRFT etc but I feel there is still a market out there for multi user domestic services.

 

[muddythefish]

FLL decided their future lay in deep sea containers.

Fortunately, others have taken up the challenge with services to DIRFT etc but I feel there is still a market out there for multi user domestic services.

Willesden is an excellent location, in a city of 9m people. But chasing freight customers needs work, whereas deep sea containers just turn up and need transporting. Perhaps it's all just too difficult.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Willesden is an excellent location, in a city of 9m people. But chasing freight customers needs work, whereas deep sea containers just turn up and need transporting. Perhaps it's all just too difficult.

Perhaps a more plausible explanation is that potential customers were approached and they have replied by saying that in many cases its cheaper, quicker and more convenient to move stuff by road.

I wonder how competitive rail is against road in terms of moving containers from Felixstowe, Southampton, Thamesport and London Gateway to Greater London.

 

[bluenoxid]

Do containers want to go to Greater London. Most warehousing seems to operate north of London?

 

[furnessvale]

Perhaps a more plausible explanation is that potential customers were approached and they have replied by saying that in many cases its cheaper, quicker and more convenient to move stuff by road.

I wonder how competitive rail is against road in terms of moving containers from Felixstowe, Southampton and Thamesport to Greater London.

Hardly surprising road is cheaper, given the level of subsidy road haulage currently enjoys, which makes the small amount given to rail look like peanuts.

I have seen the occasional Felixstowe-London Gateway freight, so when conditions are right, it is done.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Willesden is an excellent location, in a city of 9m people. But chasing freight customers needs work, whereas deep sea containers just turn up and need transporting. Perhaps it's all just too difficult.

Except that it had awful road access. I went on a press trip to mark the opening of the terminal and the coach got stuck on a corner in the backstreets. Somewhere on the M25 would have worked much better.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Perhaps a more plausible explanation is that potential customers were approached and they have replied by saying that in many cases its cheaper, quicker and more convenient to move stuff by road.

I wonder how competitive rail is against road in terms of moving containers from Felixstowe, Southampton, Thamesport and London Gateway to Greater London.

The acid test when / if Radlett gets built. Ironic that a fully functioning ,public sector funded terminal in NW London has/ had zero traffic - but persons seem to think that down the road in leafy Herts with no gauge clearance and a punishingly busy passenger service will be an Eldorado for railfreight (maybe road freight actually)

Felixstowe to Brum does not pay by rail for containers - break even point is about 200 miles (always was - even in my day 1979 to 1982 working for Freightliner) , post charges , advance loading time , poor utilisation of wagons and so on against a very competitive if not trouble free these days - road haulage industry) -this has been said many times.

 

[furnessvale]

Felixstowe to Brum does not pay by rail for containers - break even point is about 200 miles (always was - even in my day 1979 to 1982 working for Freightliner) , post charges , advance loading time , poor utilisation of wagons and so on against a very competitive if not trouble free these days - road haulage industry) -this has been said many times.

Given that a number of trains run daily from Felixstowe to Birch Coppice, Hams Hall and Lawley St., either the FOCs are losing money or economics have changed a little.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Don't some of the shorter distance intermodal services 'need' Mode Shift Revenue Support (MSRS) from the DfT in order to break even? Some flows would disappear pretty quickly if was turned off.

 

[furnessvale]

Don't some of the shorter distance intermodal services 'need' Mode Shift Revenue Support (MSRS) from the DfT in order to break even? Some flows would disappear pretty quickly if was turned off.

That is true. Mind you that nowhere matches the 70% subsidy being given to HGVs at the moment!

 

[Ships]

There was a bit on rail haulage on radio 4 with a few from the industry and the break even point given was much lower (80 miles rings a bell)

 

[furnessvale]

There was a bit on rail haulage on radio 4 with a few from the industry and the break even point given was much lower (80 miles rings a bell)

The break even point varies according to the type of traffic, competitive pressures and many other variables.

Within recent memory, there was at least one MGR coal train where colliery and power station could be captured in the same photograph.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The break even point varies according to the type of traffic, competitive pressures and many other variables.

Within recent memory, there was at least one MGR coal train where colliery and power station could be captured in the same photograph.

Was the power station Ferrybridge?

 

[RichmondCommu]

That is true. Mind you that nowhere matches the 70% subsidy being given to HGVs at the moment!

The problem is without that 70% subsidy the price of food in shops would start to rise.

 

[furnessvale]

Was the power station Ferrybridge?

I cannot remember offhand but I distinctly remember seeing the photos. I would certainly make Ferrybridge a candidate.

 

[furnessvale]

The problem is without that 70% subsidy the price of food in shops would start to rise.

That is very possible, but the subsidy is a political decision which sticks in the craw when you are constantly told just how "inefficient" railfreight is, and how so much freight HAS to move by road because it is "cheaper".

If it is any help, I would suggest that the current subsidy on road freight is maintained for the sake of the economy, but that railfreight is given the same level of subsidy. Perhaps we would then see the true value of rail to the economy.

 

[RichmondCommu]

That is very possible, but the subsidy is a political decision which sticks in the craw when you are constantly told just how "inefficient" railfreight is, and how so much freight HAS to move by road because it is "cheaper".

If it is any help, I would suggest that the current subsidy on road freight is maintained for the sake of the economy, but that railfreight is given the same level of subsidy. Perhaps we would then see the true value of rail to the economy.

The problem is even if you evened up the subsidy gap in many instances road transport would be quicker than rail.

 

[furnessvale]

The problem is even if you evened up the subsidy gap in many instances road transport would be quicker than rail.

I don't deny that for a second, I simply ask that rail is given a fair crack of the whip. I will also be the first to admit that rail could not accommodate a large increase in freight in the short term. A gradual increase of say 10% pa would put the system under pressure but I could see a level playing field on subsidy having this effect.