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Ticket Barriers at Leeds

Ticket Barriers - Useful or useless?

  • Useful

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Good

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Useless

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pain

    Votes: 6 42.9%
  • Wast of money

    Votes: 4 28.6%

  • Total voters
    14
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GNERman

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May I just say that how stupid it is that the ticket barriers at Leeds are actually really stupid!
I don't know why but when I tried to go through the barriers on Friday night neither of my tickets would work.
Is this cause I am a child?
I don't know.
Anyone else had problems.

Heres a poll for ticket barriers.
I'd say they're a pain.
 
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yorkie

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Already discussed - see http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22292 - the barriers at Leeds let ANY ticket through regardless of validity, so your tickets must have become demagnetised, this also been posted recently http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22493

The barriers at Leeds are a folly and only serve one purpose: to allow the DafT to be happy.

Barriers for InterCity and provincial services are a pain AND a waste of money.

For suburban networks in big cities where every station has a ticket office/ticket machines and there are long trains every few minutes, then they make sense.
 

bluenoxid

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Oh yes, checking tickets are a folly :roll:

The barriers were also needed because the manual system was failing. Too many times passengers were having to be let through manually. Yes, they aren't switched on properly yet but give them time, they are very effective.
 

yorkie

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How much time do you want to give them? They've had months! Until they work they are a folly.

If they are intended to replace ticket checks on trains then they will fail as anyone wanting to avoid paying the full fare will simply buy a ticket to Burley Park (£1.40).
 

theblackwatch

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They make sense to have at Leeds, but need to work correctly - which the ones at Leeds don't seem to (and they've been 'live' for well over six months). It is impossible for staff to get through crowded trains to check tickets in the peaks to/from Burley Park, Shipley, Cottingley, Crossgates etc so some other sort of check is necessary.
 

bluenoxid

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The other check is a station lockdown at said stations (which has been used quite effectively in the past) with the use of CCTV evidence for those who have definitely not come from those trains.
 

Max

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The other check is a station lockdown at said stations (which has been used quite effectively in the past) with the use of CCTV evidence for those who have definitely not come from those trains.

I'm fairly sure this would not be logistically workable at Leeds in the peaks.
 

furryfeet

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17 Apr 2008
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449
why not make the trains longer then ?
i.e. spend the money where it should be spent, rather than a sop to some treasury mandarin.

more people get a seat, thus encouraging travel.

the guard can then get through the train and sell everyone a ticket.
 

theblackwatch

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And you'd be happy to have to spend a lot more on either your travel or taxes to fund this way or not needing a station barrier I presume?
 

driver9000

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I'm fairly sure this would not be logistically workable at Leeds in the peaks.

its been done fairly regularly at Leeds to weed out 'short faring' where they check tickets of the passengers leaving the station anyone without a ticket is asked where they have come from and if they say one of the locked stations (usually one stop out) they are instantly revealed as fare dodging. Peaks are the favourite time for doing it.
 

whoshotjimmi

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I think it is time we looked at this debacle a little more hypthetically.

Why is this such an issue? London has a fully functioning system in place that can deal with millions of passengers a day. If such a system can be implemented and proved to be efficient in such a busy metropolis, why can it not be successfully introduced in Leeds? Perhaps some of the hapless 'experts' in charge ought to have a visit to TfL and learn a thing or two.

The point of the barriers at Leeds station is essentially to ensure the free flowing movement of passengers at busy times and to fight ticketless travel. They acheive neither of these goals. Nor have they decreased the reliance on staff at the entrance.

I have travelled to Leeds station on many occasions in the morning rush and not been sold a ticket. Before the ticket barriers were installed, the only reasonable course of action would be to queue at the solitary ticket office platform side for a ticket. Now, if one does not get sold a valid ticket and carries a used ticket, one can put it in the machine and get through without paying. It boggles the mind. Rather than taking a step forward in the fight against fare dodgers, a rather large one has been taken backwards. Not only that, but pre paid cards cannot be used, so one could argue that the flow of passengers has also been compromised.

I don't think it is fair, however, to pin the blame for the problem entirely on the barriers at Leeds. The whole passenger infrastructure on the network contributes to the situation. Why is it possible to get on a train in the first place without buying a ticket?

Here is what I think is a perfectly reasonable course of action:

Rather than being a waste of money as the OP has optioned, they are a very sensible idea that will be critical in reducing railway crime and ensuring any future growth in passenger numbers will be efficiently controlled as they pass through the station. They are currently only a faff due to them not being ready to be in service. As such, the barriers should be opened up whilst the problems are being ironed out, with random ticket checks from the same number of staff that already patrol and with a small but significant BTP presence (what else do they do anyway?). This will give the illusion that passengers will not be able to get away with fare dodging whilst at the same time, allowing free movement. Whilst all this is going on, efforts should be stepped up to, firstly, allow the system at Leeds to correctly identify tickets as well as work with pre paid and concessionary passes (which will take a number of months), implement ticket machine facilities at unstaffed stations and form a plan to barrier each and every station on the network, as this is the only way the the plan would work wholescale. It is pointless having a barrier at Leeds if a passenger who has travelled from Harrogate is able to buy a ticket that states Burley Park. If money is going to be spent with this problem in mind, it is entirley pointless only spending it at one station.

I also believe that the project could have been better implemented with a trial project at a smaller, yet significantly patronised, station such as Bradford Interchange or Forster Square. Lots of scope at both of these stations for thorough testing of the equipment and software but not being so busy that the initial testing phase would seriously affect passengers or entice ticketless travel.
 

driver9000

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The barriers system was in use essentially trialled at Blackpool North and Manchester Oxford Road long before Leeds got its barriers and they work fine, Oxford Road is a very busy station especially in the peaks and Blackpool North is also a busy station especially around weekends and holidays, there have been no major issues with the operation of the barriers at either station.
 

ukrob

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The barriers system was in use essentially trialled at Blackpool North and Manchester Oxford Road long before Leeds got its barriers and they work fine, Oxford Road is a very busy station especially in the peaks and Blackpool North is also a busy station especially around weekends and holidays, there have been no major issues with the operation of the barriers at either station.


Are the barriers at Oxford Road still letting anything with a magstripe through though the same as at Leeds?
 

driver9000

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Are the barriers at Oxford Road still letting anything with a magstripe through though the same as at Leeds?

Not that Ive seen, valid tickets only. Ive never actually used them as Im usually passing through the station on duty, but I got stuck behind someone who was trying to use an 'OUT' ticket instead of the return portion and the gate refused it.
 

ukrob

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Not that Ive seen, valid tickets only. Ive never actually used them as Im usually passing through the station on duty, but I got stuck behind someone who was trying to use an 'OUT' ticket instead of the return portion and the gate refused it.

Good, glad they have sorted it - and it is even less excuse for Leeds to not have theirs sorted.
 

paul1609

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I dont understand why East Croydon with 25 % more passengers than Leeds and a much smaller barrier line is able to operate efficently wheras leeds is a farce.
Am I the only Southern taxpayer who is getting fed up of subsidising the north?
 

ukrob

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I dont understand why East Croydon with 25 % more passengers than Leeds and a much smaller barrier line is able to operate efficently wheras leeds is a farce.
Am I the only Southern taxpayer who is getting fed up of subsidising the north?

No, but I think you are the only person in this thread who is trying to bring antagonistic politics into a thread that doesn't require it.
 

whoshotjimmi

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The barriers system was in use essentially trialled at Blackpool North and Manchester Oxford Road long before Leeds got its barriers and they work fine, Oxford Road is a very busy station especially in the peaks and Blackpool North is also a busy station especially around weekends and holidays, there have been no major issues with the operation of the barriers at either station.

One of the MAJOR problems with it is that it will not work with Metro pre pay cards - not an issue at Oxford Road or Blackpool. Until the system is working fully - 100% - it is pointless. Even if the barriers could recognise the correct tickets, it would still not be ready - hence my suggestion to trial it at a smaller WYPTE station.

Paul1609 - most Northerners would relish the opportunity to split from the dismal, dank, crime ridden hole we call our Capital City. We Northerners are fed up of all the available money going to a place where people whinge if the next underground train doesn't arrive within 20 seconds. Let me tell you something else Paul. If you were to leave your beloved South East and venture out into the rest of the country, you would find that there are other people and places. It has already been shown on this forum that the London area receives PROPORTIONALLY a much larger amount of money than anywhere else in this country. And are you all satisfied? No. It is because of attitudes like yours that the rest of England is left to cope.

The ticket barrier issue in Leeds is being ridiculously mismanaged and if someone would just make a simple decision regarding them, they would work fine. No common sense being used at all I fear.
 

ffcphone

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23 Jan 2009
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Ticket checks as a whole are subject to abuse from those who can't be arsed or indeed can't pay to travel on our rail network. On my daily 20 min commute I frequently see people boarding at the same station as me who fail to volunteer their tickets when the conductor comes down the train. One of these days I'm going to point them out and risk getting knifed no doubt. Why should I pay when others blatantly want a free ride.

Ticket barriers are perhaps the cheapest method of bringing in "revenue protection" providing the barriers are functioning correctly. Whilst just their presence may well persuade some to start buying tickets there will remain those who will continue to try their luck.

In an ideal world you'd have to validate your ticket as you boarded your train either via machine at door entry points or at platform gates in advance, maybe even repeating this at the other end when getting off. But I guess the costs of employing sufficient technology or human resources means its a constant weighing up of the costs to increase revenue protection against how much revenue is actually being lost.
 

driver9000

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In an ideal world you'd have to validate your ticket as you boarded your train either via machine at door entry points or at platform gates in advance, maybe even repeating this at the other end when getting off. But I guess the costs of employing sufficient technology or human resources means its a constant weighing up of the costs to increase revenue protection against how much revenue is actually being lost.

In a similar way to the way Oyster works on TfL where you 'touch in' and 'touch out' and the system deducts your fare up a capped fare which I think is the price of a Travelcard.
 

ffcphone

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indeed. Can you imagine the costs of installing that at every national rail station!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
oh and the daily oyster cap is actually just below that of the equivalent travelcard.
 

furryfeet

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17 Apr 2008
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I am happy for my taxes to be spent on more carriages, instead of ticket barriers.
Seeing as "getting a seat" is high on passengers priority lists ( according to passenger focus ) then I am not alone in such thinking.

and no, I do not need them - they are a deterrent to using the railway.
 
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