It was specified some years ago so I guess it had to be built regardless as it is in the contract.
Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal
- Thread starter hornbyfan99
- Start date
- Status
Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Except that DOO operates perfectly satisfactorily on a high proportion of services in/out of London already (including some of the same routes as Southern), and in virtually all urban systems in Europe.
SpacePhoenix
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 5,491
Is the current combined ASLEF & RMT dispute with GTR one of the longest running disputes ever (at least since franchising started)?
Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,636
Urban being metro right? Because not all of GTR's network is metro style... quite a lot isn't infact.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Bedford-Brighton isn't metro, nor London-Oxford/King's Lynn/Peterborough/Ipswich.
Many regional German/Swiss/Austrian S-bahn systems are DOO (usually with on-board ticket checking, but no station barriers).
The Netherlands also have a lot of DOO with ticket checkers on non-NS lines.
Which countries in western Europe don't have any DOO on at least some regional services?
Last edited:
CentralTrainer
Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 359
Cue production of one piece of A4 with the following written on it:
Four legs bad, two legs good.
Another one ? Wasn't a report by Chris Gibb recently released. I think passengers and staff alike are sick of reports, enquiries, select committees. They want action.
But no one can agree as to what action is, action to me would be Southern re-let as a franchise without interference from the DfT where they can crew their trains however they want..
Action to some others on here is the government stepping in and making striking illegal, sending everyone back to work, force the OBS and drivers back on the train and watch the OBS disappear in a few years time.
All very well if they'd really be able to crew them how they want, or would the reality simply be whatever the unions will allow or tolerate without striking
Last edited:
What action would you prefer to see then? Something close to the 2nd paragraph?
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
Can you elaborate on your saying 'Perfectly Satisfactory' please. Either it operates on a perfect level or it is operated on a satisfactory level. I don't think you could have something like what you say unless something is 'Perfect' on a 'Satisfactory' level.
I'd not support strikes becoming illegal,but I'd support some type of binding arbitration process eventually happening when 2 sides clearly can't agree as I believe can happen in key industries in countries like Australia etc
Last edited:
I think it's great news that Chris Grayling has been forced to publish this. After all the government are keen on transparency. Local government works under that framework so why should central government too.
Chris Grayling previously said it was not for him to get involved in the dispute. Given he isn't involved, he should have time to publish his advice. I doubt the railways are heavily involved in the Britexit process, so it won't be diverting his attention away from that too much.
Of course people want action but as Chris Grayling can't provide it, seeing as he can't get involved, then he might well provide this information. It's not as if it's taking up time he could have spend on the dispute, since he himself said it was not for him to get involved.
Chris Grayling previously said it was not for him to get involved in the dispute. Given he isn't involved, he should have time to publish his advice. I doubt the railways are heavily involved in the Britexit process, so it won't be diverting his attention away from that too much.
Of course people want action but as Chris Grayling can't provide it, seeing as he can't get involved, then he might well provide this information. It's not as if it's taking up time he could have spend on the dispute, since he himself said it was not for him to get involved.
Last edited:
He is the Secretary of State for Transport. I despair sometimes. Are the railways beyond the control of the Government ? WTF is his job, if not to deal with the 'railway'
He is involved and making some very public statements about this dispute. I am on the passengers side when they believe that the Gov should step in.
From my perspective; if he can't then he should STFU.
Well said. I personally think he's not that good at his job and should try something else. Maybe transport secretary doesn't suit him job wise. Alas in the current climate I don't see him going anywhere, other than staying where he is.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,195
"Perfectly satisfactory" is a recognised expression in the English language.
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
Ok perhaps i asked the wrong question. perhaps i should of asked what does this expression actually mean? As i have not heard it and trawling through my dictionaries at home and on the internet it only mentions the words as a separate context.
Perhaps LNW-GW Joint meant safely.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
But of course, he is only the fountain head. It will be others who will produce any required report. I know that most see the truth to this, but some cannot resist political point scoring.
Sir Humphrey would have explained matters in his usual inimitable style.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It's the standard mode of operation, without industrial disputes or major incidents, in the UK and widely in Europe.
There is 30 years of Thameslink operation and 20 years on some other routes.
I'm not getting into semantics, I just believe the RMT/ASLEF need to make a workable agreement with the TOCs and move on to better things like expanding the railway.
"No change" is not an option as technology advances and operational costs increase, just as in other industries.
By the way, my job was "rationalised" in a much newer industry (IT).
It happens, and nowadays more frequently.
I appreciate what you're saying, but a workable agreement needs GTR/DfT need to also compromise.
You evaded my question last time, so I'll ask again, a bit more directly. What would your preferred outcome of this dispute be?
A realistic compromise for me would be a guaranteed 2nd member of train crew on each service, with the 2nd train crew being trained in PTS, evacuation, GSMR
and emergency protection with the driver doing the doors with updated and enhanced cameras, better door interlock sensors and the 2nd train crew holding the local door until all other doors and closed and locked.
What about you? How would you resolve/compromise?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That is not a compromise, that is basically Voyager style guarded operation.
There is no workable compromise involving a safety trained second member of staff. If that person is going to exist they might as well be a guard.
There is no workable compromise involving a safety trained second member of staff. If that person is going to exist they might as well be a guard.
So what would you like to see then?
Because it will save a lot of money in the long run when a TOC/DaFT/Government are taken to Court by a Disability group about the lack of access for the disabled and it is realised that a second person has to be available and having a proper Guard on the train is the best/quickest/most cost effective method of operation.
But it isn't.
Wasn't the figure for DOO operation only 30% of the railway ? I seem to recall that figure from back when this debate first started. It is far from the standard mode of operation.
When all this is done and sorted and all the Guards are gone. Your ticket price will be a lot higher than before and your train will still be late or cancelled.
Thats probably because of one or more of the following reasons-
A/ our Continental cousins are more honest than us
B/ the railways have more effective revenue protection
C/ their Courts take fare dodging more seriously
D/ the companies back up their staff where assaults take place instead of blaming the staff for allowing the situation to escalate.
In his case I suspect it would be full DOO without a second member of staff on the train, and then as soon as it is viable do away with that staff member as well!
- Status