Travelling Post Office - What would a rake contain, rollingstock-wise

[razourlight962]

I recently started modelling in N gauge, and I was wondering what a rake of Royal Mail TPO would be made up of.
Thanks in advance,
Jordan

 

[6Gman]

Would very much depend on which service it was - they varied in length and formation.

 

[AndrewE]

A mixture of Post Office Sorting vans, Post Office Tenders and BGs. I'll dig out an old marshalling circular I have somewhere and see if they are in it.

Of course the York - Aberystwyth (later Salop) mail and vv had a BCK as well, as they were advertised passenger trains at the time.

 

[6Gman]

Jordan,

If you describe the setting and era of your model it would help figure out what would be likely.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

A mixture of Post Office Sorting vans, Post Office Tenders and BGs. I'll dig out an old marshalling circular I have somewhere and see if they are in it.

Of course the York - Aberystwyth (later Salop) mail and vv had a BCK as well, as they were advertised passenger trains at the time.

Is there any fixed ratio for the number of stowage coachs per sorting coach mentioned in the marshalling circular?

 

[RichJF]

The Willesden - Dover TPO used to be top-tailed by class 73's with about 6/7 coaches in various RES/Royal Mail liveries. The coaches used to be sliding door variety if I recall. I think there used to a BG (Brake Guard) in the formation most days.

When I used to commute to school it passed through South Croydon most days!

 

[razourlight962]

Jordan,

If you describe the setting and era of your model it would help figure out what would be likely.

Setting would be a small Scottish town, with the train just passing through, as for era, it's going to vary, though I'd be running with the Class 47 "Doncaster Enterprise" which, AFAIK, is from the 80s

 

[30907]

You could just have a single POS attached to a passenger and parcels, IIRC the 06xx Perth-Inverness was that (the POS returned on the evening 16xx south from Inverness.
However, that may be a little early for your period. Vans could be BG or GUV.

At the other extreme would be a full Postal! ISTR 1 POT to 1 POS but possibly 2:1?

Have you tried the RMWeb site?

 

[razourlight962]

Have you tried the RMWeb site?

I don't know of it, so I have not

 

[Taunton]

Very roughly there was one Stowage van for each Sorting van.

If there was lineside exchange (not all trains had this) then you needed two sorting vehicles, marshalled together with the nets on opposite sides, as the trains were not turned at the end of the journey and a net needed to be on the other side for the return journey. Given that postal vehicles retained the offset rather than central gangway connections not only into BR days, but some BR vehicles were actually so fitted, or even retro-fitted, as well (as much for security from the rest of the train as anything, especially after the Great Train Robbery), getting the formation right was a challenge and supplying a replacement vehicle the right way round with the gangway on the correct side even worse.

The net also needs to be at the trailing end of the vehicle when it was to be used. Once the big sliding door was opened there was a huge gale developed behind, and letters might be otherwise blown all over the place. Protection against falling out for the postman lowering the bags to be dropped off, and then swinging the collection net out, was decidedly flimsy. There was a bell push inside the door which allowed the postman doing this to ring a warning bell in the vehicle about a minute before opening, which allowed all the sorters to secure what they were working on. I'm sure you will want lineside exchange on your model!

 

[DarloRich]

did the lineside exchange process still operate in the 80's?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Some TPOs had propelling control vehicles (PCVs) at one or maybe both ends. The PCVs were used to make shunting easier

 

[Greenback]

did the lineside exchange process still operate in the 80's?

No. When I worked for Royal Mail, I looked into it and discovered that the last operation was in 1974 on the West Coast Main Line. Somewhere near Penrith, I think.

 

[Taunton]

There was still lineside exchange in the early 1960s at Wellington, Somerset, for an Up postal service in the evening. It was something to be taken to see on fine summer nights - and an excuse to be up after bedtime.

For your model to be complete, you will need the Post Office red Morris Minor van, that used to come out just before it was due. No qualms about a postman going lineside and hanging the bags on the gantry. The pickup was during the descent of Wellington bank, and while there may have been an official maximum speed limit for the exchange, trains came down that stretch pretty fast. The postman always stayed until the exchange had happened, I don't recall mails being dropped off by the same train but I presume it was their job to retrieve any bags if there was a missed exchange and the bags ended up on the lineside - just like my Hornby-Dublo example, bought to recreate the scene, often did.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's a good DVD called "Special Delivery" which follows the Penzance-Bristol TPO for an out and back journey, think it was by Oakwood Press, don't know if it's still made but it probably appears on ebay from time to time.

Some of the mail trains were "bag tenders", they just carried mail only, no staff - nothing was sorted en-route. I believe that they were top&tailed by super BGs (some might have had PCVs at one or both ends with NKA vans

 

[gg1]

Setting would be a small Scottish town, with the train just passing through, as for era, it's going to vary, though I'd be running with the Class 47 "Doncaster Enterprise" which, AFAIK, is from the 80s

Assuming your model is of 47522 in it's unusual LNER green livery, it carried the livery from 1987 to 1990 when it was repainted into standard parcels red at the sime time as having accident damage repairs. Of course you could use a little modellers licence and pretend the accident nev er happened resulting in the loco carrying the livery well into the 90s if you prefer that era

 

[birchesgreen]

The book Night Trains of British Rail has a lot of photos of post trains and the various combinations so would be good for this (and is well worth having anyway)

 

[simple simon]

The TPO system still exists at some railway centres - certainly the Didcot Railway Centre but I thought that there are others too.

Therefore 'modellers license' could see almost any type of traction being used on demonstration trains!

Simon

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The TPO system still exists at some railway centres - certainly the Didcot Railway Centre but I thought that there are others too.

Therefore 'modellers license' could see almost any type of traction being used on demonstration trains!

Simon

I believe that the Grand Central Railway has demos of the hook and net system in action

 

[Flying Phil]

Yes the Great Central Railway does have regular TPO demonstration mail drop and pick up at Quorn station. The GC website has dates.