Arriva Rail North DOO

[Kite159]

Talks to take place this week. John Tilley from the RMT said on Granada News that terrorist attacks will be more likely if guards are axed.

Sorry but :roll: at the suggestion that terrorist attacks will be more likely if guards are removed.

 

[kevconnor]

Sorry but :roll: at the suggestion that terrorist attacks will be more likely if guards are removed.

Have to agree, whatever your view of the politics of the DOO/DCO issue, it is poor form to make that kind of a claim.

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry but :roll: at the suggestion that terrorist attacks will be more likely if guards are removed.

He appears on TV every time the Merseyrail and Northern disputes are mentioned and comes up with a new ridiculous comment each time. The RMT need to keep him and Mick Cash away from the media and use Daren Ireland to respond to the media if they want to be taken seriously.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Talks to take place this week. John Tilley from the RMT said on Granada News that terrorist attacks will be more likely if guards are axed.

Noting that terrorist attacks have featured bladed weapons, it is unfortunate to say that guards being axed has been the correct choice of phrase to use..

 

[coxxy]

RMT really do themselves no favours sometimes.. scaremongering to the highest degree.

I think most people actually agree with what RMT are saying and the need for guards on Northerns services but they really do need to avoid the public turning on the guards any more than they already have.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is Mick Cash's response to the Queen's Speech:

'The government have nothing to say about the crisis blighting our privatised and fragmented railways which is there for all to see in the daily chaos on Southern.
The attack on staffing, safety and access is set to continue across the transport sector and will meet the fiercest possible resistance from RMT members and our supporters in the community

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/rail-sector-responds-to-the-queens-speech.html

 

[313103]

www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-responds-to-queens-speech/

Mick Cash RMT General Secretary said:

“This is a flimsy piece of work from a minority Government with no mandate and no ideas.

“The Government have nothing to say about the crisis blighting our privatised and fragmented railways which is there for all to see in the daily chaos on Southern Rail. The attack on staffing, safety and access is set to continue across the transport sector and will meet the fiercest possible resistance from RMT members and our supporters in the community.

“The scandalous neglect of Britain’s shipping industry clearly remains part of Tory Party policy and RMT will be stepping up the fight for the decent jobs, pay and working conditions that are the mark of a civilised society.”
Ends


Well as a railway employee who is constantly looking over his back to see where the next attack on staff numbers will come from i agree with what Mick has to say.

The Government really have nothing to say about the crisis in our rail industry, they dont care about the passengers just take a look on how they have dealt (or rather not dealt with the Southern fiasco) and many of those passengers on this corridor would mostly be the current governments best supporters. They dont care about the staff employed allowing companies or its own machine the Department of Transport (or whatever it is called now) to use so called advances in technology to do away with ticket offices and displace said staff, and to eliminate the Guard from the railway (DOO schemes is exactly that no matter how good you dress it up).

I know it has nothing to do with this thread but as a transport union that represents members who work in the bus, road haulage, shipping and taxi industry and attacks on these groups of workers will continue.

 

[Robertj21a]

If only the modern-day RMT was more professional, used a bit of common sense, and stopped ranting about everything under the sun, then people might just think they had something useful to say.

 

[gavin]

Three-day strike from 8th July

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Three-day strike from 8th July

...which will achieve what?

 

[Bletchleyite]

...which will achieve what?

The loss of 3 days' pay.
An increase in TOC profits of (number of staff striking x 3 days pay).
<ends>

 

[driver_m]

...which will achieve what?

Demands on a weak govt to do something before more Tory MPs like Amber Rudd lose their jobs.

 

[northwichcat]

So the strike will be a Saturday/Sunday/Monday which will affect events including:
The Manchester International Festival
Liverpool Arab Arts Festival
Race for Life events in places including Manchester, Newcastle, Chester, Sheffield and York

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Demands on a weak govt to do something before more Tory MPs like Amber Rudd lose their jobs.

Does anyone see such a scenario as being something that the Labour Party would see as a heaven-sent opportunity to make a point of how weak the Conservative Party are and then immediately draw a comparison to saying how weak the Conservative Party Brexit negotiating team are.

 

[Kite159]

So the strike will be a Saturday/Sunday/Monday which will affect events including:
The Manchester International Festival
Liverpool Arab Arts Festival
Race for Life events in places including Manchester, Newcastle, Chester, Sheffield and York

Hitting the leisure travellers again, the sort who will simply change to driving (or using a bus) to said events, both methods of transport more dangerous. And on finding out that it isn't as bad as predicted will continue using said car/bus as it is more reliable and comfortable than a warm & crowded 142/150/319 etc.

----

And didn't the glorious RMT want Brexit, so why are they complaining that getting a half-decent deal is near the top of the "to-do" pile in Central? Government, but don't worry everybody having a guard who stays in the rear cab of a busy 150 will prevent an agent of ISIS from attacking the train

 

[Robertj21a]

Demands on a weak govt to do something before more Tory MPs like Amber Rudd lose their jobs.

I think the government is very unlikely to put an on-going rail/union dispute very high up their list of priorities !!

 

[Andyh82]

I think the government is very unlikely to put an on-going rail/union dispute very high up their list of priorities !!

Especially one up north, it'll get mentioned in 'news in brief' on the national news at best spoken over a couple of seconds of library pictures.

 

[Bevan Price]

...which will achieve what?

llareggub (backwards) Because that is how much the DfT cares about passenger inconvenience.

 

[driver_m]

I think the government is very unlikely to put an on-going rail/union dispute very high up their list of priorities !!

I think Amber Rudd is owed a massive favour by Theresa May for being humiliated at that leaders debate. Never underestimate the little background deals done to make this problem go away for Rudd. As things stand she is odds on to lose that seat at its next election. Likewise for the NW Tory MPs in the likes of Southport etc.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The loss of 3 days' pay.
An increase in TOC profits of (number of staff striking x 3 days pay).
<ends>

Not forgetting to take away lost revenue (and profit). Northern seem to have as many £30k-£60k managers (doing very little) as they have £30K Guards, and those managers claim that salary comes from revenue rather than subsidy.

Hitting the leisure travellers again, the sort who will simply change to driving (or using a bus) to said events,...

Which is the point, in a manner of speaking, making the company realise that it's most important concern, the already below forecast profits, are going to take another blow unless something gets sorted.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think Amber Rudd is owed a massive favour by Theresa May for being humiliated at that leaders debate. Never underestimate the little background deals done to make this problem go away for Rudd. As things stand she is odds on to lose that seat at its next election. Likewise for the NW Tory MPs in the likes of Southport etc.

Will the proposed strike action by the RMT in the three franchise areas make any difference to Government thinking on the matters that the RMT view as sacrosanct or do you forsee Government capitulation soon?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

llareggub (backwards) Because that is how much the DfT cares about passenger inconvenience.

Of course, you could never accuse the RMT of that matter...:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

I think Amber Rudd is owed a massive favour by Theresa May for being humiliated at that leaders debate. Never underestimate the little background deals done to make this problem go away for Rudd. As things stand she is odds on to lose that seat at its next election. Likewise for the NW Tory MPs in the likes of Southport etc.

Don't forget Southport is served by both Northern and Merseyrail and it's Labour controlled Merseytravel who came up with the DOO proposal on Merseyrail (not the Dutch government as John Tilley said :roll

The former Lib Dem MP for Southport, John Pugh, retired at the last election and you could argue he was the unsung hero for ensuring Pacer retirement was on the agenda when the Northern franchise specification was written under the coalition government. If rail is so important when voting in a general election why did Southport voters switch to voting for parties which care less* about rail services locally at the election this month?

* If you presume wanting a guard-less Merseyrail network is not in the best interests.

 

[HowardGWR]

...which will achieve what?

I am travelling from Leeds to Skipton (having originated in the deep SW) on the 10th July Monday on the 1626. If the strike achieves its object, the Northern management will still draw their salaries, but if my train does not run, or the one after, the firm from whom I will hire my car in Skipton will be shut. I will have to order a taxi to my lodgings in Grassington, or even have to stay in Leeds. The last bus from Skipton is 1805 and I would have to spend a day extra hire of the car for nothing.

My wife said, on hearing the news (we have fixed advance tickets), if that happens, that's the last time I go by rail anywhere.

So Mr Cash and his colleagues will achieve no damage to the management (which is what he will claim) but we innocent passengers?

Even if the car firm agree to do overtime and /or it all turns out OK and the strike called off, what about the present concern caused and the potential misery? If I drove up there, road journey is a ghastly motorway crap experience - but?

We reached this stage in the 50s of the last century. The results were the decimation and more, of our railway system and the transfer to roads . Is that what the RMT wants?

 

[HH]

We reached this stage in the 50s of the last century. The results were the decimation and more, of our railway system and the transfer to roads . Is that what the RMT wants?

Rather, is that what DfT wants?

 

[driver_m]

Don't forget Southport is served by both Northern and Merseyrail and it's Labour controlled Merseytravel who came up with the DOO proposal on Merseyrail (not the Dutch government as John Tilley said :roll

The former Lib Dem MP for Southport, John Pugh, retired at the last election and you could argue he was the unsung hero for ensuring Pacer retirement was on the agenda when the Northern franchise specification was written under the coalition government. If rail is so important when voting in a general election why did Southport voters switch to voting for parties which care less* about rail services locally at the election this month?

* If you presume wanting a guard-less Merseyrail network is not in the best interests.

The Southport vote appeared to be caused by a total split in the left and centre vote, no tactical voting plan was organised by those two on the side, from all accounts. Therefore causing a Tory to get in.

I've said this on the Merseyrail thread. The new Mayor will likely have a very different view than that of Merseytravel and his remit is transport policy. You can't have a national policy of nationalisation and reinstatement of guards and a local vision of DOO. One will have to give, and i can't see it being Corbyn.. can you?

 

[northwichcat]

The new mayor who refused to back the RMT's campaign?

 

[yorksrob]

There must be a better way to pursue industrial action than strikes which damage the business itself. Is it true that in other countries the trains still run during strike action but revenue isn't collected ?

 

[Gareth Marston]

There must be a better way to pursue industrial action than strikes which damage the business itself. Is it true that in other countries the trains still run during strike action but revenue isn't collected ?

Certainly in the North of England on Saturday's that would be popular with the public it would be a very brave or foolhardy sub contracted barrier staff / RPI employee that would try and stop an entire train load arriving into one of the big cities.

 

[northwichcat]

There must be a better way to pursue industrial action than strikes which damage the business itself. Is it true that in other countries the trains still run during strike action but revenue isn't collected ?

Not sure about that but I do know Italian law prevents essential services from not operating during industrial action.