Class 158 air conditioning

[dk1]

GAs 170s where struggling yesterday. Two of the 2-car units where failed due to this & other issues. Worst was the 16:03 Norwich-Cambridge which suddenly became the diversionary train for London bound passengers after all overhead power was lost Stowmarket through to Manningtree. The 3-car train was loaded to maximum capacity with passengers (& cycles) left behind. Further delayed at Thetford whilst guard & driver delivered cases of water to doorways to be distributed by passengers as only 1 coach had fully functioning air-con. Some alighting at Cambridge looked decidedly unwell & clothing was soaked.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't most trains 20 years ago have a lot more windows which could be opened to allow air to circulate.

158s & 166s only have a limited number of little hoppers so when the AC breaks you haven't got that backup of opening at every window

I think the trains were also less crowded outside of peak hours (at least the ones that I had been on) 20 years ago, so the airflow within the coaches might have also been better

 

[D365]

Are newborn babies in danger? You see, the monitor for my sister's six month old baby says 'too hot' if the temperature reaches 25c. She has to travel on a long distance Crosscountry service in the morning.

Don't know which route she's taking but there's speed restrictions on the Peterborough-Ely section of the New Street-Stansted service, also affecting the other operators.

 

[fgwrich]

Having said the above comments, a 6 car 159 has just passed me with all but 1 coach with its windows open. And that's with the normally very reliable Liebherr system.

 

[vikingdriver]

Having said the above comments, a 6 car 159 has just passed me with all but 1 coach with its windows open. And that's with the normally very reliable Liebherr system.

Pretty much all the 159s I've passed whilst out on the iron road today have had most windows open on them, not seen it like this before. A suspicious mind would wonder if the end of the franchise has anything to do with it!

 

[superkev]

The way the air conditioning seems to die on days when it's most needed is, to me, symbolic of the cavalier attitude the toc's have to there passengers. No financial loss to them whether it works or not. Don't they maintain it? If it's a design issue they have had 25 plus years to sort it.
Northern s recent refreshed units are typical - all cosmetic and not a been spent on mechanicals.
I'll stick to my car which has a failure rate far more if Northern s 8000 miles.
K

 

[LiftFan]

I went on a trip to Weymouth today - Thankfully I avoided the curse of the 158 and got landed with a 150/2 on the way down and a 150/1 on the way back. Obviously no air con but having every window open with a good breeze though the carriage worked wonderfully even when the train was full and standing.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I tried to take the 10:30 from Cardiff to Cosham this morning, as I arrived on ATW's 153353 I saw the hybrid 158 waiting on platform 2 with windows open in two coaches. Ok, I thought, aim for the coach with windows shut, the air-con should be working in that one. I'd not been on it long before I decided the air-con wasn't working on this coach either and took my jacket off. My assumption was proved correct as the guard came through openning the windows as we pulled out of the station about five minutes late.

I don't know if leaving late meant we were running on yellow signals, or if there were lots of temporary speed restrictions, but we were running slowly quite a bit. When we did get a bit of fast running, the breeze from the open windows made the heat bareable but the slow sections (and stations stops) were horrible. Leaving Temple Meads, an announcement said we were 14mins late due to speed restrictions and at Westbury I saw the platform displays showing us as nearly 30 minutes late. At this point I started to wonder whether I would make Cosham in time or if I might as well give up and go home. In the event the decision was taken for me, as an annoucement went out saying they had cancelled the service due to the failed air-con which a fitter had apparently taken a look at while we sat in Westbury.

I still can't believe the reason given, cancelled due to failed air-con, because I think all the other 158s I saw passing also had their windows open (including the Springboard unit 158798 which was on the following Portsmouth service we had been told to board) and weren't cancelled. It was 150s for me back to Cardiff, but to my extreme supprise my journey beyond Cardiff on 175115 was also rather warm. Whatever happened to the 'Arctic mode' the 175s have frozen me with in past winters? I could have done with that today. I think the air-con on the 175 was working a little, stopping it getting any hotter, but failing to actually cool the interior.

Was the air-con working on any of GWR's 158s (or ATW ones for that matter) today?

 

[Parallel]

Was the air-con working on any of GWR's 158s (or ATW ones for that matter) today?

I'm not sure but RTT and Journey Check show a large number of the Portsmouth - Cardiff services cancelled/delayed due to "a shortage of serviceable train sets". Two 158s were reported in Devon earlier in the day, persumably they didn't work the Portsmouth diagrams. Passengers were advised to travel via. Reading and Basingstoke.

When GWR are having to cancel 158s due to air-con related issues, it shows that someone, somewhere needs to take it seriously and fix it. Staff and passengers deserve better.

 

[RJ]

From reading tweets to TOCs especially during this spell over the last few days I am reading little else but Aircon, Aircon, Aircon and on it goes. This does not seem to be confined to Class 158s either but very prevalent on HSTs. I'm afraid I can't recommend a solution myself as I'm not technical minded.
I think some radical action should be taken, cross TOC and Rosco getting heads together otherwise the situation will continue all Summer and into next Summer if left as it is. The problem with 158s has been with us ever since they were introduced in 1990 but some TOCs fleets seem more reliable than others.
TOCs keep telling passengers to speak to the Conductor/Train Manager to ask if they can adjust the system or will report unit by unit to Maintenance Control.
Alternatively can water be handed out to passengers.

It seems like on parts of the UK railways, certain things are done in a crap, half arsed manner. Customers are always expected to be understanding of the never ending excuses, even not complain about things which could and should really be done better.

There'll be managers and policy makers somewhere who are quite happy to save their budgets on installing/maintaining a reasonable standard of air conditioning, probably justifying it by saying that it's only for a few weeks of the year and the customers will only be on the train for a short time and will forget as soon as they get off the train.

I've been in Switzerland and New York in the last few weeks, on a mix of regional, intercity and subway trains in sweltering outside temperatures. The trains have been refreshingly cool - yet over here, there's a perennial struggle to sort out the air con on 2 carriage trains. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a result of deliberate penny pinching!

 

[theageofthetra]

It seems like on parts of the UK railways, certain things are done in a crap, half arsed manner. Customers are always expected to be understanding of the never ending excuses, even not complain about things which could and should really be done better.

There'll be managers and policy makers somewhere who are quite happy to save their budgets on installing/maintaining a reasonable standard of air conditioning, probably justifying it by saying that it's only for a few weeks of the year and the customers will only be on the train for a short time and will forget as soon as they get off the train.

I've been in Switzerland and New York in the last few weeks, on a mix of regional, intercity and subway trains in sweltering outside temperatures. The trains have been refreshingly cool - yet over here, there's a perennial struggle to sort out the air con on 2 carriage trains. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a result of deliberate penny pinching!

Yes its pathetic & embarrassing for the industry that such a simple to resolve issue is allowed to continue. Perhaps forcing senior managers & DFT to travel in these third world sweat boxes of their own making will focus their attention.

 

[theageofthetra]

I'm not sure but RTT and Journey Check show a large number of the Portsmouth - Cardiff services cancelled/delayed due to "a shortage of serviceable train sets". Two 158s were reported in Devon earlier in the day, persumably they didn't work the Portsmouth diagrams. Passengers were advised to travel via. Reading and Basingstoke.

When GWR are having to cancel 158s due to air-con related issues, it shows that someone, somewhere needs to take it seriously and fix it. Staff and passengers deserve better.

More likely it had failed in the cab & the driver quite rightly refused to drive it in that condition.

 

[superkev]

Isn't it a sad reflection of attitude if the trains are failed because the drivers air con failed. Forget the poor passengers/ guard eh.
Isn't it around 25 years the 158's have been around and no in the uk seems to be able to fix them.
Perhaps like football managers they should look abroad for talent.
K

 

[D365]

Isn't it a sad reflection of attitude if the trains are failed because the drivers air con failed. Forget the poor passengers/ guard eh.

Err not really. I think I can tell which the most important role is, or who spends the most time sitting down in direct sunlight.

 

[Bungle965]

Yesterday I was on 158759 twice and on both times only the middle carriage had no air conditioning, the other two carriages had air conditioning that was working however were rather asthmatic in their job. I did also notice on my first trip that the air conditioning was working in the front carriage however the guard had left one of the hopper windows open no doubt making the air con work harder and probably end up seizing up soon after.
This is the only time I have had a 158 with failed air conditioning with Northern, in fact I'm typing this now from a nice and cool 158787.
Sam

 

[LowLevel]

More likely it had failed in the cab & the driver quite rightly refused to drive it in that condition.

Oh the luxury!!!

If we failed our 158s on cab temperature there would be few in traffic! The current trend with our units seems to be a small handful with both cars working properly, most with 1 car working properly, and the remainder with no cars (the unit I was on yesterday has had the air con isolation switch taped out by the depot for over a month now at both ends - if the engines had blown up it would be fixed within days but if it's cooking the passengers and crew then never mind - we are short of trains so best keep it out there). It's rubbish.

 

[superkev]

Err not really. I think I can tell which the most important role is, or who spends the most time sitting down in direct sunlight.

I meant the train should be failed if either the main or drivers a/c had failed although the driver has a huge opening window.
Ian walmsley of Modern railways suggested some time ago that removing the emergency hoppers may force maintenance to prioritize a/c problems.
And. What a missed opportunity to sort it out with Northern's protracted interior refresh program.
K

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Oh the luxury!!!

If we failed our 158s on cab temperature there would be few in traffic! The current trend with our units seems to be a small handful with both cars working properly, most with 1 car working properly, and the remainder with no cars (the unit I was on yesterday has had the air con isolation switch taped out by the depot for over a month now at both ends - if the engines had blown up it would be fixed within days but if it's cooking the passengers and crew then never mind - we are short of trains so best keep it out there). It's rubbish.

Do you have a union H&S rep?

 

[LowLevel]

Do you have a union H&S rep?

Of course - sadly the issue has been raised repeatedly for the last 25 years and despite significant investment (our units have all been fitted with the modded Liebherr equipment) has still never been sorted.

 

[PHILIPE]

Of course - sadly the issue has been raised repeatedly for the last 25 years and despite significant investment (our units have all been fitted with the modded Liebherr equipment) has still never been sorted.

ATW (via Twitter) blame the age of the units but more than one person has put them right on that excuse. I have suggested that radical action needs to be taken, cross TOC/ROSCOs as necessary, to sort out the problem once and for all. They seem to treat it as a unit by unit on a day by day basis instead of getting to the root of the problem..

 

[theageofthetra]

Isn't it a sad reflection of attitude if the trains are failed because the drivers air con failed. Forget the poor passengers/ guard eh.
Isn't it around 25 years the 158's have been around and no in the uk seems to be able to fix them.
Perhaps like football managers they should look abroad for talent.
K

If the driver loses concentration or faints as a result of the heat due the failure of the UK rail industry management to deal with a simple problem?

 

[superkev]

Err not really. I think I can tell which the most important role is, or who spends the most time sitting down in direct sunlight.

The driver does have 2 huge opening windows unlike the guard carting his ticket machine I. 3rd world conditions.
Ian Walmsley of Modern railways suggested a while back that if the hoppers where removed it may encourage the maintenance people to reprioritise the a/c.
And, what a missed opportunity to sort it when Northern have the interiors in bits during there recent on going protracted refresh program
K

 

[vikingdriver]

The driver does have 2 huge opening windows unlike the guard carting his ticket machine I. 3rd world conditions.
Ian Walmsley of Modern railways suggested a while back that if the hoppers where removed it may encourage the maintenance people to reprioritise the a/c.
And, what a missed opportunity to sort it when Northern have the interiors in bits during there recent on going protracted refresh program
K

I think what would encourage the repriortising of a/c would be drivers as a whole refusing to drive the train if there is no cab air conditioning on days like this, as inconvenient as it may be for the passengers. It's sad that ears tend to only prick up and listen when it starts to cost a lot of money.

 

[PHILIPE]

The people crewing the Twitters are still telling passengers who complain to contact the conductor on board who will be able to reset the system.
It has to be appreciated though, that these members of staff are not trained in technical matters or aware of all the ins and outs required to fully answer questions from passengers.

 

[bramling]

ATW (via Twitter) blame the age of the units but more than one person has put them right on that excuse. I have suggested that radical action needs to be taken, cross TOC/ROSCOs as necessary, to sort out the problem once and for all. They seem to treat it as a unit by unit on a day by day basis instead of getting to the root of the problem..

One way or another, if reliability of air conditioning cannot be assured - which is evidently the case on much rolling stock including some very modern trains - then a decent quantity of openable windows should be provided, even if normally locked.

Reality is one can travel on something like a 365 today which will be hot but bearable, but a sealed train without air conditioning is totally intolerable. Opening windows are ok for most of the year anyway, and if air conditioning is widely failing on the few days when its really needed then forget it, IMO.

 

[GW43125]

Ian walmsley of Modern railways suggested some time ago that removing the emergency hoppers may force maintenance to prioritize a/c problems.

SWT's attitudes to their desiro fleet suggests otherwise.

 

[yorksrob]

SWT's attitudes to their desiro fleet suggests otherwise.

Indeed. Sounds like an unduly risky strategy to me.

 

[theageofthetra]

The people crewing the Twitters are still telling passengers who complain to contact the conductor on board who will be able to reset the system.
It has to be appreciated though, that these members of staff are not trained in technical matters or aware of all the ins and outs required to fully answer questions from passengers.

That does beg the question why not?- Knowing the basic procedures to improve the environment for both themselves and their passengers just seems common sense.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Had a GWR HST from Newport to Cardiff this afternoon which was STIFLING.

Then had a 142 from Cardiff to Waun-Gron Park which was also boiling.

 

[fowler9]

I've been on 3 185's the last couple of days that were unbearable. After a mile walk from the office in the sunshine the second the doors shut the sweat started poring out of me. Doesn't happen on the none air conditioned stock in our area.