The Midland Main Line (why is it so slow)

[tbtc]

Living in Sheffield, I'm used to having slower journeys on the Midland Main Line than places of a comparable distance on the ECML/ WCML.

There's some obvious issues (there's little four track running, meaning problems when "fast" trains get caught behind slower ones at Wellingborough etc. And it's diesel (unlike the ECML/ WCML).

But what could be done to speed it up? I've heard it said that it's not straight enough for "fast" trains, but not curved enough for tilting to make much difference.

Are there any obvious infrastructure improvements that could be made?

 

[The Planner]

Define fast ?? most of it runs at 100 or 110mph. Raising it up to 125mph will give minimal benefits time wise.

 

[tbtc]

Define fast ?? most of it runs at 100 or 110mph. Raising it up to 125mph will give minimal benefits time wise.

I mean comparing places on the MML to those of a similar distance on the ECML or WCML (in terms of time taken to get to London etc).

For example, both Sheffield (via Retford) and Nottingham (via Grantham) would have a faster journey to Kings Cross than to St Pancras (if such a service existed). Until the recent EMT changes, it was around 2h 20 mins to get from London to Leeds and from London to Sheffield (despite Leeds being another 50 or so miles from the capital, and the Leeds service stopping at more intermediate places).

I'm not too fussed by the top speed, if increasing the minimum speed in some bottlenecks would help

 

[Kneedown]

Living in Sheffield, I'm used to having slower journeys on the Midland Main Line than places of a comparable distance on the ECML/ WCML.

There's some obvious issues (there's little four track running, meaning problems when "fast" trains get caught behind slower ones at Wellingborough etc. And it's diesel (unlike the ECML/ WCML).

But what could be done to speed it up? I've heard it said that it's not straight enough for "fast" trains, but not curved enough for tilting to make much difference.

Are there any obvious infrastructure improvements that could be made?

The obvious answer is to electrify the entire route north of Bedford.
This would slash journey times due to the better acceleration characteristics of electrics, especially on a route such as this with many curves and gradients.
I personally think it should be done before the GWML which already benefits from 125mph running on reasonably flat, straight tracks.

 

[The Planner]

The obvious answer is to electrify the entire route north of Bedford.
This would slash journey times due to the better acceleration characteristics of electrics, especially on a route such as this with many curves and gradients.

That would only benefit you after stops and for significant speed changes. Curves will seriously limit the top speed capable as Ive no doubt much of the track is already on it maximum cant, and Id also bet the signal spacing isnt fit for anything more than 110 either.

 

[EM2]

There's a lot of freight on it too. I saw a headline on one of the magazines that the MML is our first 'full-up' main line.

 

[Waverley125]

More does need to be done with the MML. As with the ECML, it needs to be quadrupled along as much of its length as possible, and electrified from Bedford to Wakefield, including the Derby loop & Nottingham, possibly all the way to Grantham.

It also needs a full 'WCML upgrade' esque treatment to ensure 125mph along the whole line, preferably before the arrival of the IEP, after which it can be used by the then-redundant 91s & Mk4s.

However, what wil count against this is that (in my opinion) the sensible route for HS2, following the old GCML will serve all of the places the MML does, with Sheffield being the first major stop, and one of the bigest junctions, being where trains for Manchester & Liverpool diverge from trains for Leeds, Newcastle & Scotland.

What it does make abundantly clear is that we need a long-term plan for investment in Britain's main lines. The MML & EoEML both need upgrades to increase speeds between centres & provide shorter journey times. The ECML needs rewiring as the present OHLE is, as is often said by NR staff, unfit for purpose.

Finally, the GWML needs electrifying through to Swansea & Exeter, with the old LSWR mainline reopening to serve Plymouth & Cornwall under wires; the West of England Main line could also do with being upgraded & electrified from Basingstoke to Exeter St Davids to provide an alternative route to Exeter, as well as better links from the south west to the south east.

This is all going to cost a hell of a lot, plus the HS budget. But what needs to be realised is that, while HSR will boost local & national economies, it will almost certainly remain expensive. Therefore, improving conventional rail services, and ensuring that their prices are competitive for the leisure market, is key. If someone can get from Sheffield to london in 90 mins using a high speed service costing £70, all well and good for business & well off travellers. But if the opportunity of a 2hr service costing £20 exists, it will open up long distance rail travel to a far wider range of people, which is vital if rail is to increase its modal share.

 

[MCR247]

More does need to be done with the MML. As with the ECML, it needs to be quadrupled along as much of its length as possible, and electrified from Bedford to Wakefield, including the Derby loop & Nottingham, possibly all the way to Grantham.

It also needs a full 'WCML upgrade' esque treatment to ensure 125mph along the whole line, preferably before the arrival of the IEP, after which it can be used by the then-redundant 91s & Mk4s.

However, what wil count against this is that (in my opinion) the sensible route for HS2, following the old GCML will serve all of the places the MML does, with Sheffield being the first major stop, and one of the bigest junctions, being where trains for Manchester & Liverpool diverge from trains for Leeds, Newcastle & Scotland.

What it does make abundantly clear is that we need a long-term plan for investment in Britain's main lines. The MML & EoEML both need upgrades to increase speeds between centres & provide shorter journey times. The ECML needs rewiring as the present OHLE is, as is often said by NR staff, unfit for purpose.

Finally, the GWML needs electrifying through to Swansea & Exeter, with the old LSWR mainline reopening to serve Plymouth & Cornwall under wires; the West of England Main line could also do with being upgraded & electrified from Basingstoke to Exeter St Davids to provide an alternative route to Exeter, as well as better links from the south west to the south east.

This is all going to cost a hell of a lot, plus the HS budget. But what needs to be realised is that, while HSR will boost local & national economies, it will almost certainly remain expensive. Therefore, improving conventional rail services, and ensuring that their prices are competitive for the leisure market, is key. If someone can get from Sheffield to london in 90 mins using a high speed service costing £70, all well and good for business & well off travellers. But if the opportunity of a 2hr service costing £20 exists, it will open up long distance rail travel to a far wider range of people, which is vital if rail is to increase its modal share.

Why Grantham?

 

[Waverley125]

would allow Nottingham to recieve two london services-from FCC to LKX and EMT to STP. Also the HSR service. This would put Nottingjam in the vanguard of transport in Britain, and would assist its transfer from being a regional capital to being one of the leading cities in Britain, with the likes of Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool & Bristol.

 

[MCR247]

would allow Nottingham to recieve two london services-from FCC to LKX and EMT to STP. Also the HSR service. This would put Nottingjam in the vanguard of transport in Britain, and would assist its transfer from being a regional capital to being one of the leading cities in Britain, with the likes of Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool & Bristol.

But why would FCC operate? And it wouldnt be frequent enough to electrify it, if the MML is electrified then whats the point? I mean why would they electrify 1 line for a hourly (?) train!

 

[tbtc]

Are there any simple enhancements that could be made though, like areas that could take four tracks?

In an ideal world, I'd extend the "Thameslink" service to Corby and Leicester (thus speeding up the Nottingham/ Derby services by omitting Wellingborough etc), but there's obviously no spare track for them (ignoring the lack of wires).

Where's the big bottlenecks? Dore Junction (outside Sheffield) is one - this could be solved by four tracking the line from Sheffield Station (there's spare land there, it was proposed for the Sheffield Tram many years ago, but rail tracks would fit).

Do the Bedford FCC services run on the same lines? Could this be avoided?

 

[MCR247]

Do the Bedford FCC services run on the same lines? Could this be avoided?

It is 4 track between London - and north of Bedford (or somewhere!)

 

[tbtc]

It is 4 track between London - and north of Bedford (or somewhere!)

Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I was meaning, do the Bedford FC services cross onto the Midland Mainline lines (to overtake St Albans/ Luton FCC stoppers)?

 

[MCR247]

Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I was meaning, do the Bedford FC services cross onto the Midland Mainline lines (to overtake St Albans/ Luton FCC stoppers)?

Erm sometimes I think.

 

[Edvid]

The vast majority do, those that don't call at stations between St Albans and West Hampstead Thameslink which mostly happens during weeknights and weekends. A handful of peak services do so as well.

 

[Kneedown]

That would only benefit you after stops and for significant speed changes.

Of which there are many.

Curves will seriously limit the top speed

May i suggest a 56 with 2000tons behind it, blasting through Mkt Harboro and Wellingboro at about 80. That'd straighten it out a little!

 

[Waverley125]

What I'm saying is that FCC should be cnouraged to extend operations beyond peterborough. Nottingham & Lincoln should be two destinations, with wires linking into the MML at Nottingham, and the ECML avoiding line via Lincoln & Gainsborough to lincoln. This would provive an alternative route for electrified freight travelling up the east coast.

 

[The Planner]

You would still need at least 5 or 6 stops to get 5 minutes saving with a powerful EMU. Raising the line speed up to 125mph where possible has already been looked at and it only gets you 3½ - 4 minutes from St Pancras to Derby.

 

[Edvid]

Speaking of which, is an upgrade to 125mph (fast lines Luton - Sharnbrook) still on the cards? 26 miles seems rather short...

 

[Teaboy1]

I think its slow because its still antiquated even in 2009! Maybe if the Treasury invested 1/8th of what they used to bail out RBS and Northern Rock, etc we would have one darn good railway! But when has Gordon and Alistair ever done the sensible thing??

would a 56 +2000 ton ever reach 80...........I doubt it !

 

[Waverley125]

1hr 35 max to Nottingham on an FCC service I reckon-calling Stevenage, Hitchin, Huntingdon, Peterborough & Grantham. Would compare very favourably to EMT i reckon.

similarly, an NXEC service to Sheffield calling Peterborough, Newark & Doncaster would probably take about 1hr 45, compared to 2hr 20 via the MML.

 

[asylumxl]

It takes about 1h 30 max on MML in a Class 222 anyway. Why would that route be favourable to it?

 

[Mojo]

1hr 35 max to Nottingham on an FCC service I reckon-calling Stevenage, Hitchin, Huntingdon, Peterborough & Grantham.

Impressive, given that a FCC service that only calls at two stops currently takes 1h02m to get to PBO from KGX.

 

[Kneedown]

would a 56 +2000 ton ever reach 80...........I doubt it !

They would if you let em! Trust me, i used to drive em!

 

[Metroland]

The MML gets a line speed upgrade in the next spending control period and additional running lines are going in.

Major enhancement projects during CP4 (£m)

Thameslink Programme (2,913)
East Coast Main Line upgrades (557) [inc Hitchin grade separation]
Reading remodelling (514)
West Coast Main Line committed schemes (495) [inc Bletchley remodelling]
Southern platform lengthening (350)
King's Cross (329)
Intercity Express supporting infrastructure (275)
Airdrie-Bathgate reopening (202)
Glasgow Airport Rail Link (155)
Birmingham New Street Gateway (135)
Western improvements (95) [inc Cotswold redoubling]
St Pancras-Sheffield line speed upgrade (67)
North London Line capacity upgrade (67)

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5759

 

[The Planner]

Dont be fooled by that, a fair chunk will probably go on the Syston to Trent slow line upgrade.

 

[asylumxl]

Even running faster St Pancras - Bedford would be brilliant.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I was meaning, do the Bedford FC services cross onto the Midland Mainline lines (to overtake St Albans/ Luton FCC stoppers)?

Yes especially where it goes from 6 tracks south of West Hampstead to four tracks by West Hampstead. The fast Bedford trains use the fast lines for some of the jounery atleast the same as the diesel EMT services.

 

[tbtc]

Yes especially where it goes from 6 tracks south of West Hampstead to four tracks by West Hampstead. The fast Bedford trains use the fast lines for some of the jounery atleast the same as the diesel EMT services.

Thanks for confirming.

I suppose even more Thameslink trains is only going to make thngs worse (given the delays potentially caused by squeezing 24 tph through the tunnel, then the flat crossings etc)...

 

[ungreat]

1hr 35 max to Nottingham on an FCC service I reckon-calling Stevenage, Hitchin, Huntingdon, Peterborough & Grantham. Would compare very favourably to EMT i reckon.

Give over..its as far Peterboro-Notts as it is Peterboro-KX!

We can do KX-Pboro in an hour and 2 mins(fastest is 57 mins) just calling at St Neots and Huntingdon..33 mins more would NOT get you to Nottingham!