Just how hard is it to drive a train

[janahan]

To the OP. Try a Train Simulator package (such as Train Simulator) to get a rough feel of driving a train, and drive in the "Expert" Mode (ie non-DCC).

This would be as close to train driving as you can get (real train driving is probably still more difficult, as on a real network there are probably more rules).

I have used such software, and things that are far more difficult that I once originally thought, giving me a lot of respect to the skill of a train driver.... Here are some of what I found

- Braking Distances. Unlike a car, you really have to plan ahead, as the train doesn't stop on a penny. You have to consistently be able to stop at the right point on every platform at every station stop, every time, and not have to "make corrections" whilst keeping to a timetable (so no 'slow and steady wins the race!)

- Braking types. Trains can and usually do have more than one type of brake (besides any parking brake). Train Brakes, Dynamic Brakes (on Electric traction trains, including DieselElectrics), and Loco Brakes (for locos) Each has a different Characteristic. On some older Locos/MU, you cannot partialial release the brakes (reduce braking force), once engaged. You have to complelty release it, wait until the vacuum builds up, before trying to re-engage.

- Speeding - Most Locos/MUs use a noted handle for controlling power, which is not easy. You have to maintain speed, often with frequent adjustments, maintain a speed to keep to your timetable, without exceeding any speed limit (not just posted, but others due to bends, and environment). Speeding is monitored thanks to black boxes, and at best could get you into a lot of trouble, at worst kill/injure you and others..

- Avoiding SPADS, etc. When I first started, I was getting a lot of SPADs simply for not braking quick enough. The lights are often not easy to see especially at high speed. IT helps to be aware of were the signals are located.

- Driver viligence systems. You have to acknowledge the Driver Vigilence systems when they alert you, as pay attention to the alerts, or the system could apply emergency brakes.

And these don’t include other aspects of driving trains which may be specific to the train, equipment or route.

The only marginal advantage over driving road vehicles, it the elimination of the need to steer, but other things are a lot more tricky.

So my view, is that its not as easy driving a car. But (certainly on my simulator) a lot of fun!

 

[PudseyBearHST]

To the OP. Try a Train Simulator package (such as Train Simulator) to get a rough feel of driving a train, and drive in the "Expert" Mode (ie non-DCC).

This would be as close to train driving as you can get (real train driving is probably still more difficult, as on a real network there are probably more rules).

I have used such software, and things that are far more difficult that I once originally thought, giving me a lot of respect to the skill of a train driver.... Here are some of what I found

- Braking Distances. Unlike a car, you really have to plan ahead, as the train doesn't stop on a penny. You have to consistently be able to stop at the right point on every platform at every station stop, every time, and not have to "make corrections" whilst keeping to a timetable (so no 'slow and steady wins the race!)

- Braking types. Trains can and usually do have more than one type of brake (besides any parking brake). Train Brakes, Dynamic Brakes (on Electric traction trains, including DieselElectrics), and Loco Brakes (for locos) Each has a different Characteristic. On some older Locos/MU, you cannot partialial release the brakes (reduce braking force), once engaged. You have to complelty release it, wait until the vacuum builds up, before trying to re-engage.

- Speeding - Most Locos/MUs use a noted handle for controlling power, which is not easy. You have to maintain speed, often with frequent adjustments, maintain a speed to keep to your timetable, without exceeding any speed limit (not just posted, but others due to bends, and environment). Speeding is monitored thanks to black boxes, and at best could get you into a lot of trouble, at worst kill/injure you and others..

- Avoiding SPADS, etc. When I first started, I was getting a lot of SPADs simply for not braking quick enough. The lights are often not easy to see especially at high speed. IT helps to be aware of were the signals are located.

- Driver viligence systems. You have to acknowledge the Driver Vigilence systems when they alert you, as pay attention to the alerts, or the system could apply emergency brakes.

And these don’t include other aspects of driving trains which may be specific to the train, equipment or route.

The only marginal advantage over driving road vehicles, it the elimination of the need to steer, but other things are a lot more tricky.

So my view, is that its not as easy driving a car. But (certainly on my simulator) a lot of fun!

Thanks I'll try that

 

[E&W Lucas]

This is a curious question to know simply, how hard is it to drive a train?


Just to be clear, I am not asking how hard is it to be a 'train driver' (so I am not talking about things like shift pattern, suicides, etc...) but rather purely train driving

Thanks

If you have a brain that can judge speed and distance, plus can respond quickly, calmly and precisely to multiple stimuli, then it isn't difficult. If you are not so blessed, then you will find it impossible.
It's also impossible to view the physical driving in isolation, as correctly applying rules, procedures, coping with the monotony, etc, are an integral part of the activity.

 

[E&W Lucas]

To the OP. Try a Train Simulator package (such as Train Simulator) to get a rough feel of driving a train, and drive in the "Expert" Mode (ie non-DCC).

This would be as close to train driving as you can get

The commercially available simulators are entertainment packages. They bear no more resemblance to driving a train, than their avaition equivalents do to actually landing a Phantom on the Ark Royal.

 

[E&W Lucas]

The only marginal advantage over driving road vehicles, it the elimination of the need to steer, but other things are a lot more tricky.

This has got to be a wind up! :roll:

 

[jadmor]

This has got to be a wind up! :roll:

If it is, expect to see it on GWR first

 

[1018509]

From my limited as a train maintainer/shunter on the Underground Piccadilly line then driving a train is easy; accurate stopping is where the skill comes in.

 

[GW43125]

From my limited as a train maintainer/shunter on the Underground Piccadilly line then driving a train is easy; accurate stopping is where the skill comes in.

Indeed, reminds me of a story. One station on the Picc was subject of a rumour amongst drivers that you could hit the platform at 50, go into rheo 3 and stop in the right place. One driver tried this... and stopped halfway to the next station. oops.

 

[bramling]

Indeed, reminds me of a story. One station on the Picc was subject of a rumour amongst drivers that you could hit the platform at 50, go into rheo 3 and stop in the right place. One driver tried this... and stopped halfway to the next station. oops.

On the Northern Line it was the case that one could hit Brent Cross's platform ramp at 45 mph, apply maximum service braking, and stop on the mark - although the story also went that one should only do this if the starter was green just in case. It's quite true and even applies in the wet - but it only works on the southbound. Do it on the northbound and the train will sail through the platform.

Nowadays under state-of-the-art world-class ATO trains hit the same platform ramp at a pathetic 22 mph ...

 

[Tim M]

Nowadays under state-of-the-art world-class ATO trains hit the same platform ramp at a pathetic 22 mph ...

ATO driving isn't about maximum acceleration, maximum speed between station and maximum braking, it is often about good regulation. ATO on the Victoria Line uses the same principles Westinghouse developed for Singapore MRT 30 years ago that permits a certain level of coasting between stations.

Maximum coasting would be used to save energy while still meeting the service pattern (crudely the timetable). If the train was subject to delay an intermediate level of coasting or no coasting might be used as determined by the Automatic Train Regulation alagorithms in the Control Centre computers. That would reduce inter-station journey time to bring the service pattern back to normal as far as possible. The Victoria Line system is more sophisticated than Singapore where the decision point was before the train left a station, with radio comms changes to coasting level can be communicated using the same radio as used by the ATP on the move.

For some reason LU in their infinite wisdom when they adopted the Singapore system for the Central Line didn't implement the coasting feature, and all interstation runs are maximum speed.

 

[janahan]

The commercially available simulators are entertainment packages. They bear no more resemblance to driving a train, than their avaition equivalents do to actually landing a Phantom on the Ark Royal.

This has got to be a wind up! :roll:

I tried to answer the OP as a lay person, ie non railwayman, and I am sorry if i seem to have offended someone to deserve such patronizing replies.

The OP asked how easy it is to drive a train. I am assuming that the OP has little or no experience driving a train, not far from me.

This is a difficult question to ask a seasoned train driver, as they have been trained and have been driving for some time, that often it becomes second nature. Its like driving a car, riding a bicycle. they can become second nature in time, but remember when you first tried to do either, it must have been a lot more difficult at first.

However, unlike driving a car, or riding a bicycle, there is very little opportunity for any of us to drive a real train (unless we make it a career), so the closest point of reference most have is the humble Hornby Trainset with an oval loop of track. Very simple to drive, turn a dial the train starts, turn the dial down, and it stops, almost instantly.

This is probably why many in the public grossly underestimate the skill involved in driving a train, after all they probably assume a real train is not far different. Push a lever one way to move, another way to brake, one button for horn and another to open doors.

I only suggested the train simulator packages to the OP because its a nice way to get an introduction about what goes on in a train drivers role. Of course its not the same as a real train. But for a person, like myself, who has come from a Hornby, its a great eye opener. And it allows us to build a picture of how easy or hard it is to drive a train based on our own reference point, be it a Hornby or driving a car.

 

[ComUtoR]

This is probably why many in the public grossly underestimate the skill involved in driving a train, after all they probably assume a real train is not far different. Push a lever one way to move, another way to brake, one button for horn and another to open doors.

Directional lever for the horn (high or low tone) with a separate button for the depot whistle.

Five different buttons for the doors to open (using two at a time) One group for each side release.

I've only had a brief go on a PC train sim game. I don't remember that many buttons and lights to monitor.

 

[janahan]

Directional lever for the horn (high or low tone) with a separate button for the depot whistle.

Five different buttons for the doors to open (using two at a time) One group for each side release.

I've only had a brief go on a PC train sim game. I don't remember that many buttons and lights to monitor.

Seems once again, my point is lost.

I am not denying that PC Train sims are "simplified", some more than others. Train Simulator 2017 for example , varies the amount of buttons available to press depending on the modelling of the loco/cab. whereas TSW has far more operable parts (including having to take off the filler cap in a certain way to fill diesel). The underground C-Stock simulator is even more complex to operate. But nothing can be as complex as a real train.

However for a lay person who has only the experience of a Hornby, it certainly gives an idea that things are a lot more complex in the real world, and that's not taking into account the operating rules.

 

[ComUtoR]

Seems once again, my point is lost.

Er... why the sad face ? Your point isn't lost on me. But mine appears lost on you

This thread is about breaking that fundamental misunderstanding. PArt of the reason why the job we do is difficult is because we have to actually operate the unit. Whilst 'driving' is pretty much push/pull a level to stop/brake there is so much more to actually operating a train.

I've played with a digger at Diggerland but that doesn't mean it was easy

 

[Panupreset]

Try airing up an 8 car 317 with an 08! Just getting enough in the main res to get the parking brakes off ha ha.

How well do we do as humans regarding automation? I was on a course a couple of months ago and operating incident figures were discussed. The trainer said last year we had 11 fail to calls. He asked what we thought of that figure as drivers. We thought we'll it's about at the KPI figure for that incident type so perhaps we could do better. He then said what would you think if I told you last year our drivers did 4.35 million stations stops? 11 out of 4.35 million.

I am no expert on automated systems. I wonder how it would be regarded if a computer produced that failure rate? If a salesman came in and tried to sell it on that failure rate should you buy it?