Driver changing ends.

[virgintrain1]

Quick question,

Having been on a few services recently that involved changing ends in remote locations (not on a platform) due to a diversion or an overshoot. Why does the driver seem to walk down the cess to change ends rather that through the train. Obviously this makes sense for an HST but a Voyager etc you'd think it would be safer to stay on train? Do they need to check lights ect?

Thanks

 

[najaB]

Obviously this makes sense for an HST...

Why 'Obviously'?

 

[TimboM]

Why 'Obviously'?

I'm assuming the OP isn't aware of the gangway through the HST power car past the engine and into the train?

 

[virgintrain1]

Why 'Obviously'?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gangway through the power car is not commonly used to walk through exempt in an emergenc

 

[najaB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gangway through the power car is not commonly used to walk through exempt in an emergency.

It isn't, no. But I was more thinking that, if you want to avoid walking the length of the train in the cess, you could exit the cab door and get back in via the guard's door (which also has a step if memory serves correctly).

 

[Lrd]

To save having all the passengers staring at you as you do the walk of shame.

Or in case the train is full of passengers that you can't physically get through.

 

[lincolnshire]

To save having all the passengers staring at you as you do the walk of shame.

Or in case the train is full of passengers that you can't physically get through.

It might be to make sure all his train is there and he hasn,t lost any of it en-route.

Actually think its more than likely to be closer to the quote above.

 

[Crossover]

It may also be quicker to walk down the cess than through the train, given some aisles on trains aren't the widest, and drivers tend to have their bag with them

What another poster said about them not being able to get through makes sense too - they may not know how full the train is and therefore whether they are going to be able to get through. Passengers up and about using the facilities or the like could also hinder their progress

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gangway through the power car is not commonly used to walk through exempt in an emergenc

I have a feeling it may not be the "done thing" to do when the engine is running

 

[weastebusdepot]

There used to be signs indicating that the gangway was not to be used when the engine is running unless wearing ear defenders (which aren't a standard item in a train crew bag). Is that still the case?

 

[GB]

There used to be signs indicating that the gangway was not to be used when the engine is running unless wearing ear defenders (which aren't a standard item in a train crew bag). Is that still the case?

Are they not issued with ear plugs?

 

[virgintrain1]

It may also be quicker to walk down the cess than through the train, given some aisles on trains aren't the widest, and drivers tend to have their bag with them

What another poster said about them not being able to get through makes sense too - they may not know how full the train is and therefore whether they are going to be able to get through. Passengers up and about using the facilities or the like could also hinder their progress



I have a feeling it may not be the "done thing" to do when the engine is running

Makes sense in those scenarios but on a raining night in the pitch black it just doesn't seem the preferable option which suggests there is something they need to do.

 

[6Gman]

Quick question,

Having been on a few services recently that involved changing ends in remote locations (not on a platform) due to a diversion or an overshoot. Why does the driver seem to walk down the cess to change ends rather that through the train. Obviously this makes sense for an HST but a Voyager etc you'd think it would be safer to stay on train? Do they need to check lights ect?

Thanks

May there be a safety/ security issue?

Opening the door between cab and public area not encouraged?

 

[takno]

The only time I've ever been on a train where this happened the driver walked through the train making a fairly rude announcement about the signaller as he passed. It was a not-very-crowded pacer, and we were on a middle line out of 6 so it would be going rather unsafely out of his way to leave the train.

 

[robbeech]

Well I think a pacer is slightly different given the only way in is through the passenger compartment. 2 pacers joined together however is different.
I am sure that they have considered all the options and have chosen to walk outside the train as this is the most efficient and safest way, if it was dark, raining, and they were in a dangerous situation then they may choose to walk through the train instead.

 

[BestWestern]

Walking through the guts of an HST power car is noisy, hot and dirty, and not something to be done if not essential. Drivers also have a bulky, heavy kitbag to carry with them, which isn't ideal when navigating a small, cramped walkway. Much easier to hop down and use the cess! The point about lights is also valid, they should be checked after being changed.

 

[robbeech]

I have seen 2 vehicles in the last 2 days with red lights at the front. Admittedly only shunting movements but onto open platforms and one was towards a train to attach to it. I won't say who or where as they are human beings after all.

 

[ainsworth74]

I have seen 2 vehicles in the last 2 days with red lights at the front. Admittedly only shunting movements but onto open platforms and one was towards a train to attach to it. I won't say who or where as they are human beings after all.

I believe that is allowed for short shunting movements.

 

[robbeech]

I don't see why, i can accept white lights both ends, but not red.
If you have the lights white on the number 1 end and you need to move against that you can get in the number 2 end turn the lights to white and move, then switch them back to red if the next move is to be the opposite way, or off if you are connecting to another unit.

 

[ComUtoR]

I have seen 2 vehicles in the last 2 days with red lights at the front. Admittedly only shunting movements but onto open platforms and one was towards a train to attach to it. I won't say who or where as they are human beings after all.

Why is there an automatic assumption that someone is doing something wrong :/

 

[robbeech]

Why is there an automatic assumption that someone is doing something wrong :/

There isn't an assumption, if they are allowed to move a train with red lights at the front then that is how it is. I'm not a fan of that concept but I don't make any rules as I don't work in the industry, I can't think of a related scenario in my line of work, they are all either significantly less or significantly more dangerous than such as this.

 

[ComUtoR]

I don't see why, i can accept white lights both ends, but not red.
If you have the lights white on the number 1 end and you need to move against that you can get in the number 2 end turn the lights to white and move, then switch them back to red if the next move is to be the opposite way, or off if you are connecting to another unit.

Eh ?

I don't see any issue with a shunt move with reds up one end. Even if this was against the running line I still see it as a non issue. Yes, there are various operational issues but in general there is little to no risk with reds or whites up. It is such a non issue that there is a 'universal hand gesture' when a Driver leaves their reds up.

Don't get me wrong. A unit running down the mainline with whites up the back certainly does upset the Signaller and they will ask you to change them. Safety wise, I have little concerns.

Maybe PWay can answer from their perspective and AB signallers can give you another one. If your sent permissive then expect their to be a unit in your way. I've approached lights on, off, reds or whites. Permissive working, go caution, prepare to stop.

 

[robbeech]

That's fair enough, I see your point of view, and personally I do understand that there is little risk. I was more expecting the very strict nature of things would mean it was heavily frowned upon. If I dropped a set of motors in by 3 feet in an arena even though the distance above head height was still 30 feet I'd be shot and then shot again if I didn't turn on the flashing lights, the voice over warning and turn the area into a compulsory hard hat area for the 25 seconds it would take despite there being no immediate risk.

 

[dk1]

Definatley to avoid the walk of shame through the passengers. Did it once after taking the wrong route to have the trolley dolly singing "we know what you've done"

 

[185143]

Definatley to avoid the walk of shame through the passengers. Did it once after taking the wrong route to have the trolley dolly singing "we know what you've done"

Out of interest-is that classed as the signallers fault for setting the wrong route, or your fault for taking it? Or both?

 

[signallerscot]

Delay is usually split 50:50 where a driver takes a wrong route unless there are special circumstances.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I believe that is allowed for short shunting movements.

indeed it is

Rule book

When making a wrong-direction movement of less than
400 metres (440 yards), you need not change the normal head or
marker lights or the tail lamp.

When making a wrong-direction movement of more than 400
metres (440 yards), you must make sure that the headlights and
marker lights are lit on the leading end of the movement and a tail
lamp is lit at the rear end of the movement.

 

[dk1]

Out of interest-is that classed as the signallers fault for setting the wrong route, or your fault for taking it? Or both?

50:50 split. I terminated just 1 late at my destination & rang control who told me that it had been put down to signaller error. Never heard another thing

 

[Raul_Duke]

I know (at my TOC at least) if someone doesn't have have PTS on their cab pass then they can't ride in a HST cab in case something unpleasant occurs and you can't just kick them through the door into a carriage.