General Election 2017: The Results and Aftermath

[sk688]

While I am in no means, condoning any of the DUP's extreme right policies , Theresa May being forced into a minority government with them , is good in the fact that it means a " Hard Brexit " is effectively impossible , as the DUP will only form a minority government , if free movement is retained

What a mess May has found herself in , as a result of this entirely unnecessary election

Kudos to Corbyn . his campaign was absolutely amazing

Labour have made huge inroads in London now , it means they have large swathes of West , Central and South London , although the Tories are still there in the Outer Suburbs of North West , South East and North East London

SW London is pretty good for the Lib Dems , won Twickenham , Carshalton and Kingston , and were really close to keeping Richmond Park

 

[bramling]

And Nicola Sturgeon is still shouting about trying to keep the 'Toaries' out of office. She just won't accept that people in Scotland, myself included voted Conservative.

The manifesto for the Scottish Conservatives and the UK party was completely different. At least Sturgeon sort of admitted that IndyRef2 was the reason people changed their vote. Hope she finally gets the message.

I suspected the SNP fad would subside, but admit to being pleasantly surprised by how much. It's true that some of the former SNP seats were only won with relatively small majorities, however the scale of the losses goes beyond that.

It does confirm my suspicious, namely that whilst Scotland did choose remain, the issue of Brexit is not massively highly salient, certainly not by any means as much as Sturgeon has advocated. Meanwhile, it does also suggest that, conversely, UK union is much higher salience among people who voted against independence. With this in mind Sturgeon's policy and behaviour since the Brexit referendum has evidently proved to be a major misjudgement.

Perhaps there has also been an element of malaise as people have observed the SNP in government, and combined with the above factors they have also taken the normal kicking that governments tend to get. One does get the feeling the SNP are starting to be regarded as not particularly competent.

Finally, the result does seem to be a healthy personal endorsement for Ruth Davidson, who by all accounts seems to be a highly effective politician.

I can't see a second independence referendum going ahead now, though it depends how much Sturgeon chooses to put her dream above practicality.

Personally I am pleased to see a come-down for Sturgeon. She's a divisive politician, and it's good to see Scotland moving away from her brand of politics.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The manifesto for the Scottish Conservatives and the UK party was completely different. At least Sturgeon sort of admitted that IndyRef2 was the reason people changed their vote. Hope she finally gets the message.

Really? A different manifesto? That doesn't sound very workable to me. I can't imagine a Scottish Conservative MP deciding to vote against their own Conservative Government on something because it was in the UK manifesto, but not the Scottish one. Separate manifesto or not, I think you can be pretty certain that if you voted Conservative in Scotland in the general election, you'd be voting for an MP who will implement the UK/English/Welsh manifesto, not the Scottish one - simply because that's how Parliament and whips and so on work.

 

[northwichcat]

And Nicola Sturgeon is still shouting about trying to keep the 'Toaries' out of office. She just won't accept that people in Scotland, myself included voted Conservative.

The manifesto for the Scottish Conservatives and the UK party was completely different. At least Sturgeon sort of admitted that IndyRef2 was the reason people changed their vote. Hope she finally gets the message.

The Conservatives cannot form a majority government so what do you expect from other parties like the SNP?

How can it be completely different manifesto in Scotland? Did the Conservatives think that winning in Westminster meant they could overrule politicians in Holyrood on devolved matters?

 

[bramling]

I agree that nobody really won it, but I'd say with certainty that only one person really lost it.

Yes it's a shambles for May, but also not good for Nicola Sturgeon either. Both appear to have made errors.

Conservatives - a poor result following an abominable campaign. If transition to a new leader can be achieved smoothly then they could pull things round. The basic issue seems to centre on May having proven to lack the basic competence needed to appeal to voters. But there are big issues which need to be resolved, in particular getting a new leader in without it turning into a bloodbath, and whilst governing smoothly at the same time.

Labour - still well short of seats, and I just can't see this improving under Corbyn. There is a glass ceiling and I think he has reached that, and this in the situation where May's shambolic campaign has handed him gift after gift. Any kind of SNP coalition is unpalatable to many, and less feasible now she has lost seats, whilst a deal with the Lib Dems also introduces issues as there would be a fundamental conflict over Brexit which I think would be hard to square up.

Lib Dems and Greens - no real traction.

UKIP - disaster, not surprising as their main issue is now resolved, but not helped by their own meltdown internally. Their future I think is more of a pressure group than as a political party.

SNP - disaster as it implies Sturgeon's post-Brexit strategy to have been a big misjudgement. It now puts the SNP on a declining trajectory, and if Sturgeon wants to arrest this she will need to change her message. Less focus on Brexit, less Tory bashing, and most importantly less talk about independence. Can she cope with being forced to deviate that far from her core message?

The DUP alliance will prove interesting, but there will be a lot of challenges along the way if things are to remain stable. Not least May needs replacing at some point. Not an ideal situation by any definition. We will have to see how things pan out.

Finally I see little change for Brexit. The election doesn't seem to have delivered any verdict on that, simply because both Labour and Conservatives are both committed to it. There is no evidence of an anti-Brexit vote in the form of Liberal Democrat or SNP advance.

The big challenge is replacing May without things turning into a fiasco. There is no good time to do it unfortunately.

 

[Howardh]

Biggest problem for a new PM is steering us through Brexit with an end result that will get the support of 50.01% of the country. The only way to know that (as the polls - save for Yougov - are useless) is to take the result back to the country for a final vote.

However the Tory/DUP "agreement" may scupper even that - frankly who knows what's gonna happen. Anyway it's a mess totally of the Tpries own making, and all because Cameron couldn't take on UKIP and we were "threatened" with a LAB/SNP pact.

 

[Y961 XBU]

I dont think the Tory/DUP alliance will last long anyway, all that traveling from Ireland to Westminster just to vote on something to do all that traveling back...

 

[me123]

And so it begins.

Number 10 was "toxic" says former aide (BBC)

The atmosphere in Downing Street under Theresa May is "pretty toxic" and its operation "dysfunctional", a former aide of the prime minister has said.

Katie Perrior, who served as director of communications for 10 months, said she and others were not able to "speak freely" and her advice was not heeded.

She accused the PM's chiefs of staff Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy of treating ministers with a lack of respect.

The PM is being urged to make changes after failing to win the election.

The BBC understands Mrs May has been warned she faces a leadership challenge on Monday unless she sacks her two closest advisers.

None of these revelations come as any surprise. There seems to be a particular attack here on her chiefs of staff, and TM is being pushed to fire them or face a leadership challenge. Her premiership is far from secure.

Strong and stable, everyone. Strong and stable.

I dont think the Tory/DUP alliance will last long anyway, all that traveling from Ireland to Westminster just to vote on something to do all that traveling back...

To be fair, I think they do actually attend parliament in Westminster anyway. The incumbents from last parliament seem to have been very active in debates and have a good record of voting. So they are already participating in the Westminster process, the change will be that they'll be whipped into siding with the Tories more often.

 

[northwichcat]

It was announced Luke Pollard won Plymouth Sutton and Devonport with 23,808 votes. However, Plymouth City Council have said there was a mistake as they didn't include 3,475 votes for Pollard when adding up the totals.

 

[bramling]

Biggest problem for a new PM is steering us through Brexit with an end result that will get the support of 50.01% of the country. The only way to know that (as the polls - save for Yougov - are useless) is to take the result back to the country for a final vote.

However the Tory/DUP "agreement" may scupper even that - frankly who knows what's gonna happen. Anyway it's a mess totally of the Tpries own making, and all because Cameron couldn't take on UKIP and we were "threatened" with a LAB/SNP pact.

I'd say the bigger issue was Cameron losing interest and throwing in the towel after the referendum.

He should have had a strategy that made plans for an out vote, and should have made clear beforehand that he would deliver that if that was what the people wanted, even if not his recommendation. A referendum isn't win/lose, the only win is the result the people want, and it should 't have been portrayed as win/lose.

 

[Y961 XBU]

I do agree Me123 they do attend Westminster but i think its only for certain things whereas now they will be expected to turn up for everything to make sure whatever they are voting on passes through

 

[Darandio]

And now she needs to sack neither of the advisors, they have both resigned.

 

[me123]

Well, "resigned". There was obviously a lot of pressure on them to do so. If it wasn't on their own volition, you can be assured it wouldn't have been.

Strong and stable, everyone. Strong and stable.

 

[Darandio]

It's been a little while since we had one, surely some sort of new u-turn must be due?

Unless the farce yesterday whereby she mentioned nothing about those from her party that lost seats, was then told to do so and had to hastily do another interview to express her disappointment. Is that a u-turn?

 

[Dave1987]

I'd say the bigger issue was Cameron losing interest and throwing in the towel after the referendum.

He should have had a strategy that made plans for an out vote, and should have made clear beforehand that he would deliver that if that was what the people wanted, even if not his recommendation. A referendum isn't win/lose, the only win is the result the people want, and it should 't have been portrayed as win/lose.

Ahem, 17m of those that voted voted out. The referendum result certainly was NOT the will of the British people. The rest of us just have to live with the consequences of that decision.

 

[D365]

Ahem, 17m of those that voted voted out. The referendum result certainly was NOT the will of the British people. The rest of us just have to live with the consequences of that decision.

Seconded. What is it about Theresa May and these awful catchphrases of hers...

 

[AlterEgo]

I do agree Me123 they do attend Westminster but i think its only for certain things whereas now they will be expected to turn up for everything to make sure whatever they are voting on passes through

That doesn't make sense.

DUP MPs don't need to concentrate excessively on local matters because there are MLAs who sit in the assembly to do the bulk of that kind of work.

I think that whatever else you can throw at the DUP, poor attendance isn't one of them - they are present and do just the same work as any other MP. This is something the play on strongly to contrast themselves to the abstentionist Sinn Féin.

 

[najaB]

I think that whatever else you can throw at the DUP, poor attendance isn't one of them - they are present and do just the same work as any other MP. This is something the play on strongly to contrast themselves to the abstentionist Sinn Féin.

This map tends to indicate that they are on the 'lighter' end of the attendance scale.

 

[Howardh]

And now she needs to sack neither of the advisors, they have both resigned.

Now what about the person who was under their spell for their lack of judgement?

 

[takno]

Now what about the person who was under their spell for their lack of judgement?

More importantly, how about undoing some of their incompetence. Nick Timothy was the architect of the no-single-market Brexit. Time to sack that too.

 

[bramling]

Ahem, 17m of those that voted voted out. The referendum result certainly was NOT the will of the British people. The rest of us just have to live with the consequences of that decision.

Yes leaving a political club really is the end of the world ...

I can't think of any better way of doing things than what the majority wants. It happens in all parts of life, even down to mundane things like agreeing a work roster. There are things where agreement will never be unanimous, and if you look to introduce a particular amount of agreement then many things would never change just because of a minority of people. Fact of life.

 

[takno]

Yes leaving a political club really is the end of the world ...

I can't think of any better way of doing things than what the majority wants. It happens in all parts of life, even down to mundane things like agreeing a work roster. There are things where agreement will never be unanimous, and if you look to introduce a particular amount of agreement then many things would never change just because of a minority of people. Fact of life.

If you think it's not really all that important then lets just not do it. Demanding an answer from "the majority" on a question which doesn't require an urgent answer and which so many people don't have any or any strong opinion about is not a credible way to make a decision.

In fact why not take the work roster. In most places people will attempt to take account of peoples individual preferences. Say you have somebody who can't work Tuesdays, somebody who can't work Fridays and one person who doesn't care. You could put together a roster that had the first person working Fridays and the second person working Tuesdays and everybody would be happy. Most people would expect you to do that, rather than putting the first person on a Tuesday and saying "tough, because it suits most people"

 

[furnessvale]

Pro brexit: Old people Anti brexit: Young people
Conservative: Old people Labour: Young people

So in 4 or 8 years Labour will will the elections.

Provided the OAPs die off on cue, as alluded to by others, but more importantly, provided the young people do not learn any life lessons which may convert them to Tories, as has happened for generations.

Even the Tory party can count former left wingers amongst its numbers who have learned the errors of their ways!

ps I love the freudian slip. Given the Marxist nature of the current Labour party, if they ever get into power they will probably adopt the standard Marxist policy of abolishing all future elections, given that the people have now voted for the perfect system rendering any future elections surplus to requirements.

 

[northwichcat]

Provided the OAPs die off on cue, as alluded to by others, but more importantly, provided the young people do not learn any life lessons which may convert them to Tories, as has happened for generations.

Even the Tory party can count former left wingers amongst its numbers who have learned the errors of their ways!

ps I love the freudian slip. Given the Marxist nature of the current Labour party, if they ever get into power they will probably adopt the standard Marxist policy of abolishing all future elections, given that the people have now voted for the perfect system rendering any future elections surplus to requirements.

Whereas if the Conservatives got a good majority they would get rid of elections because they cost too much to run. Conservative PMs generally wait a full 5 years between elections - May has broken the trend. (Brown also broke the Labour trend of Labour PMs usually calling an election after 4 years.)

When you say 'the error of their ways' I think you mean 'they now have a significant amount of money in their bank accounts and a good salary so they are disadvantaged by left wing policies rather than advantaged by them'

One view could be old people voting to leave the EU (some of whom are already dead and we haven't left yet) and young people wanting to stay in being just too young to vote could see a generation of people who refuse to vote Tory.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The tories have lost 13 seats in total now witch is a good thing but is there any results people was happy or surprised at? I was happy to see Nick Clegg lose his seat and i am surprised that Tim Farrons majority was cut to 777 as i thought he would be liked

For me the big "win" was Labour winning Colne Valley (though the Tory incumbent was decent enough, as Tories go), along with retaining Dewsbury (a seat one might assume would be pure Labour, but that disregards the huge swathe of rural South Huddersfield (Denby Dale, Clayton West, Kirkburton areas) which was gerrymandered into the constituency a while back).

That Corbyn managed to make the gains he has despite endless smear campaigns by the Murdoch and Rothermere press is quite impressive. In fact probably the best Labour totals without the (toxic) backing of News International.

 

[radamfi]

Conservative PMs generally wait a full 5 years between elections - May has broken the trend. (Brown also broke the Labour trend of Labour PMs usually calling an election after 4 years.)

Until fix term parliaments were made law, governing parties typically called elections after roughly 4 years if they thought they were going to win (e.g. 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005) and wait the full term if they are worried they might lose (e.g. 1979, 1992, 1997, 2010)

 

[LateThanNever]

Provided the OAPs die off on cue, as alluded to by others, but more importantly, provided the young people do not learn any life lessons which may convert them to Tories, as has happened for generations.

Even the Tory party can count former left wingers amongst its numbers who have learned the errors of their ways!

ps I love the freudian slip. Given the Marxist nature of the current Labour party, if they ever get into power they will probably adopt the standard Marxist policy of abolishing all future elections, given that the people have now voted for the perfect system rendering any future elections surplus to requirements.

Trn years of austerity gives the young little hope of progression or even earning much money - that'll be their life lesson.

 

[bnm]

Conservative PMs generally wait a full 5 years between elections - May has broken the trend.

Huh? Since 1900 there were just three full five year terms under a Conservative Prime Minister with a simple majority. 1992-1997 under John Major, 1987-1992 under Margaret Thatcher/John Major, and 1959-1964 under Harold Macmillan/Sir Alex Douglas-Home.

 

[northwichcat]

Huh? Since 1900 there were just three full five year terms under a Conservative Prime Minister with a simple majority. 1992-1997 under John Major, 1987-1992 under Margaret Thatcher/John Major, and 1959-1964 under Harold Macmillan/Sir Alex Douglas-Home.

If you include Cameron (with a Conservative led coalition) then out of the last 7 parliaments there's only been one Labour PM who's not called an election after 4 years and one Conservative PM who's not waited a full 5 years before calling an election. I wonder how many people on this forum were eligible to vote in the mid-1980s.

 

[northwichcat]

For me the big "win" was Labour winning Colne Valley (though the Tory incumbent was decent enough, as Tories go), along with retaining Dewsbury (a seat one might assume would be pure Labour, but that disregards the huge swathe of rural South Huddersfield (Denby Dale, Clayton West, Kirkburton areas) which was gerrymandered into the constituency a while back).

That Corbyn managed to make the gains he has despite endless smear campaigns by the Murdoch and Rothermere press is quite impressive. In fact probably the best Labour totals without the (toxic) backing of News International.

I'm surprised to see Barry Sheerman is still MP for Huddersfield, not because I expected Labour to lose but because he must be getting on a bit by now.