New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[Suraggu]

It will probably be just a 444 re-vinyled for the press launch and then nothing until the promised refurbishments start.

Might they even use a hired(?) 442 for the launch?

No they wont be. All 18 will be off for a complete rebuild including fresh paint.

 

[bb21]

Does this mean the trains will be repainted before the new franchise starts?

Oh - and I spoke to a driver for SWT who said the LSWR logo and maroon colour scheme was legit and their bosses had shown them it - it's going to be basically a maroon version of GWR but called L&SWR. He said nothing about blue...

The driver must have missed a staff briefing advising that the logo has been confirmed a fake.

 

[pompeyfan]

The driver must have missed a staff briefing advising that the logo has been confirmed a fake.

to be fair I must have missed the staff briefing too!

 

[HH]

Clearly SWT's staff briefing process has some flaws...

 

[43096]

Clearly SWT's staff briefing process has some flaws...

To be fair, why would Stagecoach give a stuff as to what logo the new franchise is using? It's up to First/MTR to communicate in line with protocols agreed with Stagecoach (the staff are still Stagecoach employees).

Mind you, anyone who believes messroom rumours must be pretty naïve!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Mind you, anyone who believes messroom rumours must be pretty naïve!

Sorry - but I've not had much experience - 450s were out before I was born!

 

[pompeyfan]

I was never fooled into thinking they'd be a maroon version of GWR to begin with to be fair!

 

[traji00]

For the benefit of others, this is what my/our future employers have said:

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/south-western-information-for-employees.aspx

 

[SpacePhoenix]

@pompeyfan, have you heard anything about whether they'll be just one new livery for all routes or three new liveries to replace the current white, blue and red liveries?

 

[Monty]

@pompeyfan, have you heard anything about whether they'll be just one new livery for all routes or three new liveries to replace the current white, blue and red liveries?

First/MTR have been very tight lipped about anything brand related. All we know is on the Q&A webpage put up by first.

 

[pompeyfan]

@pompeyfan, have you heard anything about whether they'll be just one new livery for all routes or three new liveries to replace the current white, blue and red liveries?

First/MTR have been very tight lipped about anything brand related. All we know is on the Q&A webpage put up by first.

I couldn't have put it better than Monty!

 

[AlexNL]

"...however good some of them are."

Sounds like First/MTR do like the LSWR mockup

 

[Jamie2804]

Hi all, Just reading what you've all been saying since my last comment and.
One. The current trains are not 'painted' they are vinyled, as are pretty much every companys.
Two. From what i've heard all the trains must be re-vinyled by august and the months beyond that. And yes some the current fleet will probably be re-vinyled for the showcase including the 444, 450, 707, 158 ect... by the time of the handover to first/MTR
Three. The time of completion of the new vinyls for one train usually on takes a couple of days. which is all made in massive printers where my dad works. (the printing can sometimes take days to complete a single side of the car).
Four. The new livery is been discussed to just be a plain blue colour for sometime untill a proper disscussion of the new livery takes place which will be applied possibly next year or the year after that.

 

[Cowley]

Hi all, Just reading what you've all been saying since my last comment and.
One. The current trains are not 'painted' they are vinyled, as are pretty much every companys. (Grand central are also sending in tweaks at the moment)
Two. From what i've heard all the trains must be re-vinyled by august and the months beyond that. And yes some the current fleet will probably be re-vinyled for the showcase including the 444, 450, 707, 158 ect... by the time of the handover to first/MTR
Three. The time of completion of the new vinyls for one train usually on takes a couple of days. which is all made in massive printers where my dad works. (the printing can sometimes take days to complete a single side of the car).
Four. The new livery is been discussed to just be a plain blue colour for sometime untill a proper disscussion of the new livery takes place which will be applied possibly next year or the year after that. (Quite nice having my dad bring back new liverys everyday)

You possibly ought to be careful not to get your dad into trouble if this is the case. I'm not sure how happy anyone would be to see details of this leaked onto a public forum just before an official launch. It may not be worth the risk.
What do others think?

 

[Jamie2804]

You possibly ought to be careful not to get your dad into trouble if this is the case. I'm not sure how happy anyone would be to see details of this leaked onto a public forum just before an official launch. It may not be worth the risk.
What do others think?

I suppose, But like i said, First/MTR have not yet confirmed a livery its just in the disscusion progress

 

[pompeyfan]

The current electrics definitely are painted in their respective blue and white schemes, I believe the SWT swoosh is the only vinyl on the outside.

 

[Jamie2804]

The current electrics definitely are painted in their respective blue and white schemes, I believe the SWT swoosh is the only vinyl on the outside.

I would have to take your word for it, I was only young when they were released. Any idea on what they will do on the old 442's they said they will refurbish

 

[Suraggu]

Hi all, Just reading what you've all been saying since my last comment and.
One. The current trains are not 'painted' they are vinyled, as are pretty much every companys.
Two. From what i've heard all the trains must be re-vinyled by august and the months beyond that. And yes some the current fleet will probably be re-vinyled for the showcase including the 444, 450, 707, 158 ect... by the time of the handover to first/MTR
Three. The time of completion of the new vinyls for one train usually on takes a couple of days. which is all made in massive printers where my dad works. (the printing can sometimes take days to complete a single side of the car).
Four. The new livery is been discussed to just be a plain blue colour for sometime untill a proper disscussion of the new livery takes place which will be applied possibly next year or the year after that.

Right here goes...

1. The trains are painted. vinyls for the swooshes and branding etc.
2. All trains do not require the new livery being plastered before the start of the franchise,
3.
4. Discussing what your dad has mentioned is putting him in danger of risking his job, especially as First/MTR are remaining tight lipped about the brand.

 

[Jamie2804]

Right here goes...

1. The trains are painted. vinyls for the swooshes and branding etc.
2. All trains do not require the new livery being plastered before the start of the franchise,
3.
4. Discussing what your dad has mentioned is putting him in danger of risking his job, especially as First/MTR are remaining tight lipped about the brand.

Wow, I did not not know these trains were painted. Thanks for the info though. And do you have any idea on the topic of the 44s's they have disscussed

 

[Bigfoot]

Wow, I did not not know these trains were painted.

Erm?! all trains are painted. Unless running round in badly fitted plastic stickers is a good idea.

 

[fgwrich]

Right here goes...

1. The trains are painted. vinyls for the swooshes and branding etc.
2. All trains do not require the new livery being plastered before the start of the franchise.

They certainly are all painted - You only have to look at both pre production images of the Desiro fleet and to see them now. The roofs on the early 450s suffered rather badly from paint fade and were repainted by Siemens in Strawberry Hill depot. Unfortunately the external appearance of the Desiro's is the one thing that's letting the smartness of the 'brand' down - The 450s aren't looking too bad, but the 444s now have turned to an off-white colour, while the roofs on some of them have turned into a mushroom brown.

Picking up on the second point for a moment, while there is no requirement to have rolling stock in the new operators livery from Day 1 of any Franchise, First Group does seem to like aiming to spread their new brands out as quickly as possible - The 2006 Era FGW Franchise had the prototype Dynamic Lines HST set out on Launch Day, while a fairly severe vandal attack on a 150 led to it fairly quickly receiving Local Lines vinyl's before the rest of the 'West Fleet'. Nearly 10 years later and First rebrands First Great Western to GWR - And has a HST, Turbo & 57 all ready for the franchise (extension) 'Launch'. I seem to recall it wasn't long before TPE had their first 185 reliveried into the Silver livery last year as well.

Admittedly both of those TOCs were largely already First Group ran, but it wouldn't surprise me if we see at least one unit turned out in a new livery fairly quickly with First keen to make a mark, albeit without it actually having First largely on the sides.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They certainly are all painted - You only have to look at both pre production images of the Desiro fleet and to see them now. The roofs on the early 450s suffered rather badly from paint fade and were repainted by Siemens in Strawberry Hill depot. Unfortunately the external appearance of the Desiro's is the one thing that's letting the smartness of the 'brand' down - The 450s aren't looking too bad, but the 444s now have turned to an off-white colour, while the roofs on some of them have turned into a mushroom brown.

Picking up on the second point for a moment, while there is no requirement to have rolling stock in the new operators livery from Day 1 of any Franchise, First Group does seem to like aiming to spread their new brands out as quickly as possible - The 2006 Era FGW Franchise had the prototype Dynamic Lines HST set out on Launch Day, while a fairly severe vandal attack on a 150 led to it fairly quickly receiving Local Lines vinyl's before the rest of the 'West Fleet'. Nearly 10 years later and First rebrands First Great Western to GWR - And has a HST, Turbo & 57 all ready for the franchise (extension) 'Launch'. I seem to recall it wasn't long before TPE had their first 185 reliveried into the Silver livery last year as well.

Admittedly both of those TOCs were largely already First Group ran, but it wouldn't surprise me if we see at least one unit turned out in a new livery fairly quickly with First keen to make a mark, albeit without it actually having First largely on the sides.

There was a mention in another thread about a 444 being stored out-of-use at Bournemouth depot iirc, is it possible that it might get re-livered and possibly also repaired as well (unknown what's wrong with it) for an official brand launch?

All white on any livery seems to go off-white after a while, do they have the same problem as domestic paint where some sort of additive isn't allowed to be used anymore which would stop the white from going off-white?

 

[Bigfoot]

There was a mention in another thread about a 444 being stored out-of-use at Bournemouth depot iirc, is it possible that it might get re-livered and possibly also repaired as well (unknown what's wrong with it) for an official brand launch.

Pretty sure that's the 444 that needs quite abit of cab replacing after hitting a big tree.

 

[3141]

Right here goes...

4. Discussing what your dad has mentioned is putting him in danger of risking his job, especially as First/MTR are remaining tight lipped about the brand.

If there's any risk to his Dad's job it comes from his Dad himself. If the company he works for has been told to keep livery designs confidential then no-one who works there should be telling his family about them. You can't tell your family and then expect them to keep a secret you weren't able to keep yourself. On the other hand, if staff at the company haven't been told to keep the designs confidential then there's always a chance that they'll become public.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Pretty sure that's the 444 that needs quite abit of cab replacing after hitting a big tree.

That's 444002 which was involved in a very unpleasant fatality around Christmas time but I understand that it's now at Eastleigh under repair.

 

[superalbs]

Just been shown this:
http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/2017/06/04/unusual-livery-for-a-class-73/

A grain of truth in the plain blue livery perhaps?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There was one in SWT blue, wasn't there (with orange/red adornments).

 

[Suraggu]

There was one in SWT blue, wasn't there (with orange/red adornments).

I am sure 73109/235 received the SWT Desiro blue scheme in the late 00's.

 

[richw]

Just been shown this:
http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/2017/06/04/unusual-livery-for-a-class-73/

A grain of truth in the plain blue livery perhaps?

So they've some blue paint left over from fgw then!

 

[bb21]

That's 444002 which was involved in a very unpleasant fatality around Christmas time but I understand that it's now at Eastleigh under repair.

Been out since end of January after the double fatality at Woking.