Saudi Arabia, UAE and more cut diplomatic ties with Qatar

[ld0595]

Interesting news coming out from the Middle East.

A number of Arab countries including Saudi Arabia and Egypt have cut diplomatic ties with Qatar, accusing it of destabilising the region.

They say Qatar backs militant groups including so-called Islamic State (IS) and al-Qaeda, which Qatar denies.

The Saudi state news agency SPA said Riyadh had closed its borders, severing land, sea and air contact with the tiny peninsula of oil-rich Qatar.

Qatar called the decision "unjustified" and with "no basis in fact".

The unprecedented move is seen as a major split between powerful Gulf countries, who are also close US allies.

It comes amid heightened tensions between Gulf countries and their near-neighbour, Iran. The Saudi statement accused Qatar of collaborating with "Iranian-backed terrorist groups" in its restive eastern region of Qatif and in Bahrain.

What has happened?

The diplomatic withdrawal was put into motion first by Bahrain then Saudi Arabia early on Monday. The United Arab Emirates (UAE), Egypt, Yemen and Libya's eastern-based government followed suit.

SPA cited officials as saying the decision was taken to "protect its national security from the dangers of terrorism and extremism".

Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain have given all Qatari visitors and residents two weeks to leave their territory.

So far, there has been no sign of reciprocal moves by Qatar.

This whole situation is unprecedented and is not looking good for Qatar. I've seen pictures online of people stocking up on food as prices are expected to rise by 40% and Emirates, Etihad and FlyDubai have cut flights as of tomorrow (6th of June.) Hopefully this is resolved quickly!

News Source

 

[TheEdge]

Saudi, accusing someone else of backing militant groups, talk about rich.

 

[najaB]

Okay kids, this is where it gets complicated!

 

[najaB]

Saudi, accusing someone else of backing militant groups, talk about rich.

Saudi backing of terrorism is a nuanced thing. Unlike Iran it's never been an unofficial policy of the Government (nor a policy of the unofficial government), but rather the personal purvey of some elements of the rich ruling class (many of whom form the Government) who were acting unofficially in their personal capacity as private citizens, while simultaneously making official statements down-crying the actions in their capacity as public officials.

I'm not that familiar with the Qatari situation.

 

[Groningen]

I love already the World Cup football in Qatar. In which we (the Netherlands) will not play. As in the WC 2018 in Russia by the way. Looking forward in the hooligan activities next year. But that is for another thread!

 

[Howardh]

I love already the World Cup football in Qatar. In which we (the Netherlands) will not play. As in the WC 2018 in Russia by the way. Looking forward in the hooligan activities next year. But that is for another thread!

As an Oranjefan myself, I must admit I'm proud of the Netherlands boycotting the Russian Finals as protest about the drugs and invasion of Crimea by failing to qualify

Clearly Oranje have taken the lead from Scotland in recent years.

 

[Groningen]

You forget the MH 17 incident.

 

[Howardh]

You forget the MH 17 incident.

And still no-one's been brought to book? :cry:

 

[A Challenge]

Interesting news coming out from the Middle East.



This whole situation is unprecedented and is not looking good for Qatar. I've seen pictures online of people stocking up on food as prices are expected to rise by 40% and Emirates, Etihad and FlyDubai have cut flights as of tomorrow (6th of June.) Hopefully this is resolved quickly!

Where is the full article?

 

[Groningen]

Russia is trying to protect the MH 17 rebels.

 

[najaB]

Russia is trying to protect the MH 17 rebels.

That is making the assumption that it was rebels and not Russian Army units responsible.

 

[edwin_m]

Where is the full article?

Looks like this one off the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40155829

Links in the article to various background features.

 

[ld0595]

Looks like this one off the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40155829

Links in the article to various background features.

Yep that's the one - I forgot to add it in! I've edited it in my original post.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Russia is trying to protect the MH 17 rebels.

I have complete admiration for the Dutch taking this stance. I also suspect that they "bought" the World Cup but I suspect we will never know for sure.

 

[Groningen]

When the voting was done for both the WC in 2018 and 2022. The view in the Netherlands was that a lot of bribe money must have been used for both events. Problem is only: prove it that it happened!

 

[Tetchytyke]

That is making the assumption that it was rebels and not Russian Army units responsible.

I don't think it matters whether it was rebels or "rebels", the real issue is that Russia is too powerful to be able to enforce the charges against them.

This isn't just a Russian thing, either. William C Rogers III was given the Legion of Merit, rather than fifty years inside, after he murdered 290 people on board Iran Air 655 in July 1988. We can't have an American Navy captain be held responsible, can we? Although at least the US paid compensation to the families, unlike the Russians. But then we still trade happily with Russia, and London is full of Russian money, so meh. Realpolitik always gets in the way.

As for Qatar, it seems to be linked to them paying a $1bn ransom to Al Qaeda after some royals were kidnapped in Iraq. That, and Saudi just throwing their weight around now that Drumpf and May have made it clear they're untouchable.

 

[najaB]

This isn't just a Russian thing, either. William C Rogers III was given the Legion of Merit, rather than fifty years inside, after he murdered 290 people on board Iran Air 655 in July 1988. We can't have an American Navy captain be held responsible, can we? Although at least the US paid compensation to the families, unlike the Russians.

The big difference is that America admitted their culpability. I find it distasteful at the least that Cpt Rogers was awarded a medal, but equally I find the explanation of a software defect in the Aegis missile system software causing misidentification of the airliner to be at least consistent with the facts as known (there had been reports of problems both before and after the Iran Air 665 shootdown).

 

[Tetchytyke]

The big difference is that America admitted their culpability.

No they didn't. They expressed "regret" and paid compensation, but that compensation was specifically ex gratia and there was no admission of culpability.

The fact they coughed up for the families makes them better than Russia, but they still protected their military when they screwed up and killed 290 people. And Iran Air 655 was, IMO, a screw up; Rogers wanted to show Iran who was boss and misread a commercial airliner as a military one.

FWIW I don't think the "rebels" meant to shoot down a commercial airliner any more than Rogers did. I think the "rebels" made the same mistake.

 

[najaB]

No they didn't. They expressed "regret" and paid compensation, but that compensation was specifically ex gratia and there was no admission of culpability.

Perhaps culpability was the wrong word - the point I was making is that, unlike Russia, they have never denied that they did it.

Rogers wanted to show Iran who was boss and misread a commercial airliner as a military one.

The official line - and one passes the sniff test given the reported incidents involving the Aegis system - is that the operators were presented with conflicting information and weren't able to identify the airliner as such.

You, me and the world think that they should have waited to make a conclusive identification but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[robbeech]

And there is me being concerned that often the cheapest and quickest flights to South Australia from north of London airports like Manchester and Birmingham are via Doha, it turns out there are other concerns too.

 

[Tetchytyke]

the operators were presented with conflicting information and weren't able to identify the airliner as such.

I thought the Aegis system had shown the A300 in a steady climb, it was just that Rogers saw what he wanted (and expected) to see, and ignored what the Aegis system was telling him.

But yes, I'm not saying the two events were comparable- the Yanks did at least not deny it- but I think they came from the same mistake. I think the "rebels" saw what they wanted and expected to see, and didn't realise their mistake until afterwards. I also can't help but wonder if the Ukrainian military were flying military planes on a civilian squawk.

But that's all probably for the aviation discussion thread.

It's interesting to see the Saudis blame "terrorism" for it. The real issue is really purely tribal. Qatar and Iran tend to support Shia causes, Saudi ruleres are Sunni. There were interesting comments from Saudi royalty about "not trusting Shia, they want to destroy everyone".

Now they know they have the support of the US and the UK governments (who have covered up reports about Saudi terrorism), the Saudis are going after the Shia, just like they always do.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I doubt that any of us here can make a comment that is backed by a full understanding of the regional situation. Over the years I have realised that Middle East politics can never be broken down into simple ideas; those that are more obvious often conflict with each other. The more common themes seem to be tribal rivalries which undermine any desire for Arab unity, Islamic sectarianism between Sunnis and Shias though relatively few Arabs are Shia, and regional rivalries with Saudi Arabia and Iran being the chief protagonists.

As stated upthread the reason it is now so easy for Saudia Arabia to accuse Qatar of supporting Islamist extremists is due to Qatar having paid Daesh a ransom of over $1 billion which will keep them going for a long time. Whether Qatari money is also finding its way to the Houthi rebels being opposed by Saudi Arabia in Yemen is more debatable. The high visibility of Qatar based al-Jazeera is also somewhat of a red flag due to its relative lack of restraint in reporting any actions against any regime in the Arab world; in fact it has been openly supportive of just about all rebel movements regardless of ideology.

The whole situation is complicated by the fact that the smaller Gulf states all have populations in which indigenous Arabs are very much the minority but of course retain all the wealth in those countries. These countries seem to be developing a strong rivalry in becoming more visible in the wider world with their airlines being an obvious example of this. I suspect that Qatar is considered to be getting too big for its boots in the view of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Given that Trump is trying to claim some sort of credit for the recent escalation it seems likely that his recent visit to Saudi Arabia has given the Saudis the green light to flex their muscles in the region despite them being just as culpable as the Qataris in providing support to Islamist extremists. Realpolitik indeed, sadly.

Across the Gulf in Iran Daesh have finally launched their first serious attack there: it is noticeable how few countries have offered any words of sympathy, let alone support, for the Iranians as fellow victims of terrorism.

The region has been a political powder keg just about all my life so the latest developments are perhaps not too surprising though some loyalties seem to be shifting. My sympathies are with Jordan, stuck in the middle of it all and with fewer resources than its neighbours yet still trying to maintain good terms in spite of the cost; remember that large numbers of refugees from Syria have been accommodated there.