London Bridge incident (03/06)

[BestWestern]

Walked down Westminster Bridge this morning, and noticed full-length, waist-high crash barriers had been installed along with concrete obstacles on the pavement at each end.

I observed the same at Legoland last week. Along with armed police. Sad times.

 

[Barn]

And that requires rational decision-making on the basis of what is most likely to work (while being consistent with the moral and ethical values that I'm sure most of us hold). Remember too that it's perfectly possible to make rational, well thought out, decisions, with the fundamental motivation still being love for all humanity, rather than coming from fear of some groups of people.

Reading this thread, it seems to me that some people perhaps should ask themselves whether perhaps they are making the mistake of responding with fear and kneejerk reactions, rather than thinking rationally.

Who are you referring to? Personally, the only thing I have specifically called for in the near term is some more bollards along high risk pavements!

More generally, I reject the idea that only some virtuous people on this board exhibit a love for humanity. It is love for the sanctity of human life that means we should do all we can to oppose ISIS and those who support them.

ISIS are the opposite of love. They hate most of humanity. They are disgusted by us. They view the killing of us as no more than the squashing of flies or the poisoning of vermin. It is right to seek to dismantle and destroy them, not out of hatred for them, but out of love for innocent human life of whatever colour, creed or faith.

Aside from some ignorant people (like the person who abused GatwickDepress, who should be called out and prosecuted), I genuinely think that we have been clear as a country that we are anti-Islamism and not anti-Islam or anti-Muslim.

Devastatingly, fighting extremist Islamists is what we are destined to do in the first part of the twenty-first century. They are the Nazis of our time, as AlterEgo said above. They are altogether evil. It is wrong to fear Muslims, but it is entirely right to fear Islamists.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I observed the same at Legoland last week. Along with armed police. Sad times.

I don't think crash barriers made of Lego would be very effective.

 

[najaB]

I don't think crash barriers made of Lego would be very effective.

I dunno, have you ever stood on a Lego piece?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I dunno, have you ever stood on a Lego piece?

When the children were young yes many times! That said their attempts at building a model of Tower Bridge were pretty impressive.

 

[GB]

I watched most of the One Love Manchester concert last night. One thing that really struck me was the way just about everyone on stage was emphasising the importance of love for your fellow human beings. Not fear, or retaliation, or kneejerk political reactions, but love.

I've got no problem with loving fellow human beings. The trouble is these are not human beings

Now I don't profess to know what the solution is, but I can't see everyone holding hands and singing kumbaya making any kind of difference.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've got no problem with loving fellow human beings. The trouble is these are not human beings

Now I don't profess to know what the solution is, but I can't see everyone holding hands and singing kumbaya making any kind of difference.

Indeed.

We are going to have to retaliate against these scumbags whether people are comfortable with it or not. Let's have it out with them.

 

[najaB]

We are going to have to retaliate against these scumbags whether people are comfortable with it or not. Let's have it out with them.

I have no problem with that at all. As long as we correctly identify who "them" are.

 

[KN1]

Indeed.

We are going to have to retaliate against these scumbags whether people are comfortable with it or not. Let's have it out with them.

On the tv this a.m they had the dad of the girl Olivia Campbell who was tragically killed in Manchester.
At the end of the interview they asked him what he would like to be done to stop another similar atrocity.
His answer was "we need to hold hands" and after a pause "we need to come together" and that was it.

I would suggest that answer wouldn't be the one the vast vast majority would say in similar circumstances.

 

[RichmondCommu]

On the tv this a.m they had the dad of the girl Olivia Campbell who was tragically killed in Manchester.
At the end of the interview they asked him what he would like to be done to stop another similar atrocity.
His answer was "we need to hold hands" and after a pause "we need to come together" and that was it.

I would suggest that answer wouldn't be the one the vast vast majority would say in similar circumstances.

What would you have preferred him to have said?

 

[AlterEgo]

I have no problem with that at all. As long as we correctly identify who "them" are.

Agreed. I am not suggesting outright marginalisation of minorities.

 

[KN1]

What would you have preferred him to have said?

I wouldn't prefer him to say anything, if he thinks holding hands and singing is the way to defeat terrorism I think he's going to be in for a shock.

I can't believe that after he's got over the initial shock he'll still think that such gestures do any good whatsoever, might make some people feel better but is of no use.

 

[Howardh]

Interesting that May says "Enough is enough" after the London Bridge attack.

So Westminster must have barely registered on the scale for her, and Manchester clearly wasn't enough enough for her.

Does this mean we can only expect government action when terrorists have scored a hat-trick?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed.



We are going to have to retaliate against these scumbags whether people are comfortable with it or not. Let's have it out with them.

Whoa.

Do you want a clash of civilisations? World War 3?

We have to be more clever than that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have no problem with that at all. As long as we correctly identify who "them" are.

How do we do that?

 

[KN1]

Interesting that May says "Enough is enough" after the London Bridge attack.

So Westminster must have barely registered on the scale for her, and Manchester clearly wasn't enough enough for her.

Does this mean we can only expect government action when terrorists have scored a hat-trick?

Very very cheap shot, you should be ashamed of such a post.

 

[AlterEgo]

Whoa.

Do you want a clash of civilisations? World War 3?

We have to be more clever than that.

I didn't suggest clashing with an entire civilisation.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I wouldn't prefer him to say anything, if he thinks holding hands and singing is the way to defeat terrorism I think he's going to be in for a shock.

I can't believe that after he's got over the initial shock he'll still think that such gestures do any good whatsoever, might make some people feel better but is of no use.

So do you think he was wrong to say what he did?

 

[KN1]

So do you think he was wrong to say what he did?

Not wrong because that's what he thought, my surprise was he thought such a thing was the answer.

If I was in a similar situation I am not exactly sure what I would have said but I know it wouldn't have been that.

 

[DarloRich]

Not wrong because that's what he thought, my surprise was he thought such a thing was the answer.

If I was in a similar situation I am not exactly sure what I would have said but I know it wouldn't have been that.

perhaps he is a bigger or better man than many of us.

 

[RichmondCommu]

perhaps he is a bigger or better man than many of us.

Just what I was thinking.

 

[KN1]

perhaps he is a bigger or better man than many of us.

Perhaps not though have you thought of that ?
What he said doesn't elevate him above me, he was quite entitled to say it but it doesn't in any way make him superior to me or anyone else.

 

[najaB]

How do we do that?

That is very much the question of the age. What we do know is that getting it wrong after 9/11 is how we ended up with ISIS.

(Many of the behind the scenes actors in ISIS are ex-Saddam Baathist seniors.)

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps not though have you thought of that ?
What he said doesn't elevate him above me, he was quite entitled to say it but it doesn't in any way make him superior to me or anyone else.

Who knows - would I ( or you) give such a pacific response. I doubt I would be able to.

 

[takno]

Not wrong because that's what he thought, my surprise was he thought such a thing was the answer.

If I was in a similar situation I am not exactly sure what I would have said but I know it wouldn't have been that.

That's fine, but then you said that the vast majority of people wouldn't have said it. Seems like you are assuming that most people are basically like you. This "I'm part of the silent majority" thinking is getting a bit old.

 

[Bromley boy]

On the tv this a.m they had the dad of the girl Olivia Campbell who was tragically killed in Manchester.
At the end of the interview they asked him what he would like to be done to stop another similar atrocity.
His answer was "we need to hold hands" and after a pause "we need to come together" and that was it.

I would suggest that answer wouldn't be the one the vast vast majority would say in similar circumstances.

Agreed.

While his stoicism in the face of an unbelievably difficult time is of course commendable, that doesn't make him right.

Well meaning platitudes will not stop knives, bullets and bombs and are now wearing very thin. We need a robust response (note, not a knee-jerk response) to these events in terms of better funding for intelligence, police etc.

 

[WatcherZero]

Emergency installation of bollards and barriers on London bridges underway to protect pedestrians. When people complain of them blocking their view of stations and airports this is just what they are there to prevent.

 

[bb21]

Interesting that May says "Enough is enough" after the London Bridge attack.

So Westminster must have barely registered on the scale for her, and Manchester clearly wasn't enough enough for her.

Does this mean we can only expect government action when terrorists have scored a hat-trick?

I think you are reading far too much into what isn't there.

 

[KN1]

That's fine, but then you said that the vast majority of people wouldn't have said it. Seems like you are assuming that most people are basically like you. This "I'm part of the silent majority" thinking is getting a bit old.

So you're assuming the vast majority of people in the same situation would have said the same as him, I very much doubt it but can't prove it like you can't prove your theory.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Who knows - would I ( or you) give such a pacific response. I doubt I would be able to.

You will never know unless someone takes your child.