London Bridge incident (03/06)

[Howardh]

But reported for what?
Nothing was done? Or investigations were carried out and no evidence was found?
Passports not confiscated? If there was no reason found for them to be, then they wouldn't be.

I don't know...I'm waiting for more info. I think it was Nick Robinson's piece on the news, which is sure to be repeated later, I only caught part of it, the interview with someone claiming to have informed the police who wanted his identity hidden.

As I alluded to, it will all come out in the enquiry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

22 innocent people died last week.
This week 7 innocent people died.
29 families lost loved ones.

I think that problem cannot be overstated.

Meanwhile 40 people die in road accidents per week on average. EVERY week.

We need to be mindful of it but overstating it is really not helpful at all.

 

[Barn]

Meanwhile 40 people die in road accidents per week on average. EVERY week.

We need to be mindful of it but overstating it is really not helpful at all.

That's really insulting to those who are grieving and to the many more of us for whom this is worryingly close to home. I had to send my first "don't worry, I'm ok" text this weekend. We are allowed to be angry and worried about this.

 

[yorkie]

What do the attackers want? Are we going to let them have it?

 

[Busaholic]

Meanwhile 40 people die in road accidents per week on average. EVERY week.

We need to be mindful of it but overstating it is really not helpful at all.

And no doubt you can tell us how many died of heart attacks, strokes, etc. All totally irrelevant. Perhaps it will require you, or somebody close to you, to be present at such an event for it to penetrate your thick skin.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Can we think , please , of the BTP officer , who engaged with just a baton , against these murdering scum. ? - not to mention the other officers and members of the public who engaged..

 

[Howardh]

What do the attackers want? Are we going to let them have it?

If they want their own *state* I'm sure 10000 square miles of empty desert can be found where they can all live happily in their own commune.

Wouldn't put it past the Tories to sell them arms, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's really insulting to those who are grieving and to the many more of us for whom this is worryingly close to home. I had to send my first "don't worry, I'm ok" text this weekend. We are allowed to be angry and worried about this.

You are allowed to be angry and worried about what you like; there are no laws on emotions and nor should there ever be (nor in practice could there be). But perspective is needed when making important decisions about these matters. Laws, enforcement plans etc must NEVER be made on emotion, ever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And no doubt you can tell us how many died of heart attacks, strokes, etc. All totally irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant.

If someone close to me is killed, I am bothered that they are killed, not exactly how it came about.

Therefore, legislation, Government spending etc should be targetted at the chances of saving the most lives, not based on publicity.

You read about the deaths this weekends. You didn't read about this week's road deaths unless they happened on a major motorway or locally to you. That doesn't mean each of those deaths - however caused - had a family, friends etc behind them.

 

[Barn]

You are allowed to be angry and worried about what you like; there are no laws on emotions and nor should there ever be (nor in practice could there be). But perspective is needed when making important decisions about these matters. Laws, enforcement plans etc must NEVER be made on emotion, ever.

We're not proposing laws based on emotion. If laws are being proposed at all, it's because people are being killed and maimed.

Posters mention car accidents and heart attacks but fail to mention that because of those things we introduce things like speed limits and defibrillators. We don't just ignore them because there are other ways to die.

 

[Barn]

If someone close to me is killed, I am bothered that they are killed, not exactly how it came about.

Have you suffered the violent death of someone close to you? Because what you say doesn't really mesh with my understanding of human nature. We very much care about how people are killed. It would make a huge difference to me whether someone was killed accidentally, by negligence or by premeditated murder.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Posters mention car accidents and heart attacks but fail to mention that because of those things we introduce things like speed limits and defibrillators.

We do, but to a pragmatic level. A blanket 20mph speed limit would save thousands of lives per year, but it is impractical. So road design and speed limits are used to achieve a realistic balance.

FWIW, one thing that would be of benefit coming from this incident is an increase in the number of pieces of street furniture that would prevent an errant vehicle intruding onto the pavement whether intentionally or otherwise. I think we will - and should - see more of this. An advantage of it as an approach is that it will also save a not insignificant number of the 40 per week as well.

 

[Barn]

What do the attackers want? Are we going to let them have it?

They want us dead.

 

[Barn]

FWIW, one thing that would be of benefit coming from this incident is an increase in the number of pieces of street furniture that would prevent an errant vehicle intruding onto the pavement whether intentionally or otherwise. I think we will - and should - see more of this. An advantage of it as an approach is that it will also save a not insignificant number of the 40 per week as well.

Yes, sadly a few days before this incident I remarked to a friend that London Bridge felt exposed and could do with some bollards.

 

[ExRes]

If they want their own *state* I'm sure 10000 square miles of empty desert can be found where they can all live happily in their own commune.

That's a complete fallacy though, they don't want their own state, they simply want to destroy the states that everyone else lives in

 

[Howardh]

Basically; I thought the very first responsibility of government is to protect us. With all these cuts to the police and services, it's now becoming clear they can't protect us.

Therefore the buck stops at the top, and heads should roll. May and Rudd should resign.

Except it's our fault. We want Britain on the cheap. Poundland instead of parliament, and then we all start whinging when the NHS doesn't work, when our citizend get blown up because the suspects aren't being investigated - whatever.

Are we prepared to pay more to fix Broken Britain?

 

[EM2]

That's a complete fallacy though, they don't want their own state, they simply want to destroy the states that everyone else lives in

Yes they do, that's why call themselves Islamic State.
They have declared a Caliphate, and

by having declared itself to be a new Caliphate, and al-Baghdadi to be the new Caliph, ISIL has declared support for itself obligatory for all Muslims. Al-Baghdadi has declared "We inform the Muslims that, with the announcement of the caliphate, it has become obligatory for all Muslims to give Bay'ah and support him", and "O Muslims in all places. Whoso is able to emigrate to the Islamic State, let him emigrate. For emigration to the Abode of Islam is obligatory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideol...ant#Ideological_implications_of_the_Caliphate

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, sadly a few days before this incident I remarked to a friend that London Bridge felt exposed and could do with some bollards.

Yes, it is a VERY busy location for pedestrians with thousands crossing daily, it certainly justifies them in my view and I expect it will now get them.

 

[PHILIPE]

Basically; I thought the very first responsibility of government is to protect us. With all these cuts to the police and services, it's now becoming clear they can't protect us.

Therefore the buck stops at the top, and heads should roll. May and Rudd should resign.

Except it's our fault. We want Britain on the cheap. Poundland instead of parliament, and then we all start whinging when the NHS doesn't work, when our citizend get blown up because the suspects aren't being investigated - whatever.

Are we prepared to pay more to fix Broken Britain?

All the cuts were initiated by George Osborne and even if the responsible Ministers tried to stand up to him, he still seemed to get his way in the end.

 

[ExRes]

Yes they do, that's why call themselves Islamic State

Well I believe that is their aim and ambition about as much as I believe Jeremy Corbyn is the new Einstein

 

[AlterEgo]

Meanwhile 40 people die in road accidents per week on average. EVERY week.

We need to be mindful of it but overstating it is really not helpful at all.

With all due respect Neil, a terrorist murder is not in any way the same as an accidental road death. One is a mistake, or negligence, or an accident. The other is a vile, deliberate and depraved act designed to threaten us.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's a complete fallacy though, they don't want their own state, they simply want to destroy the states that everyone else lives in

...and world domination.

Make no mistake, ISIS are the Nazis of our time and should be destroyed until they are all very, very dead.

 

[swj99]

.......

Are we prepared to pay more to fix Broken Britain?

We already have paid and continue to do so. But the current adminstration, and several before it, have plundered, wasted and otherwise misappropriated the money, whilst asset stripping the country.

 

[EM2]

Well I believe that is their aim and ambition about as much as I believe Jeremy Corbyn is the new Einstein

Maybe try reading some matter on the subject and informing yourself.

 

[Bevan Price]

What do the attackers want? Are we going to let them have it?

They are like other people throughout history who want to control the world and don't care how many people die whilst they pursue their evil agendas. And they are not the first lot who have claimed to believe in a religion, but distort / disregard teachings & beliefs of that religion if such teachings conflict with their aims.

Islam is a fine religion, as is Christianity - but that did not prevent there being assorted "dodgy" Popes, Bishops, etc. who were despicably cruel killers.

 

[KN1]

Islam is a fine religion

No it isn't, by any definition it isn't a fine religion unless you're brainwashed.

 

[Barn]

Maybe try reading some matter on the subject and informing yourself.

Anyone reading up on Isis needs to keep up to date. The caliphate idea has morphed into killing kuffars wherever they can be found, to the extent that they are asking fighters to just kill civilians at home rather than bothering to come to the caliphate.

 

[KN1]

Anyone reading up on Isis needs to keep up to date. The caliphate idea has morphed into killing kuffars wherever they can be found, to the extent that they are asking fighters to just kill civilians at home rather than bothering to come to the caliphate.

That's quite right the caliphate is quite a dead duck now and the main intention of ISIS is very much to strike at the heart of western society, either from the many millions of muslims who live in it or returning Jihadists.
They had a leading Syrian ISIS expert on the tv last week who said that the caliphate idea is now dead as they simply cannot sustain the military losses in the M.E any longer.

 

[swj99]

But reported for what?
Nothing was done? Or investigations were carried out and no evidence was found?
Passports not confiscated? If there was no reason found for them to be, then they wouldn't be.

Maybe. Although I suspect it's the symptom of a much more serious problem, in that the system is in such a mess that valid concerns and evidence are routinely overlooked due to lack of resources and overwork.

One example which springs to mind is a situation which happened back in around 2008. Despite numerous complaints to police regarding one suspect, the complainants were eventually told by the officer in charge that a decision had been made by the CPS to take no further action against the suspect, despite the fact there was some quite good evidence, and also despite the fact he'd breached some bail conditions and there had been further incidents reported to the police during the lead up to the decision. During the intervening time, the complainants raised several issues with the police, including their concern that if the matter wasn't taken seriously, it bore all the hallmarks of escalating into something much more serious.
The complainants wrote to the CPS and asked if the decision could be looked at again. The reply from the CPS was that the police force in question had never asked for the suspect to be charged with any offences.

This of course raises some perfectly reasonable questions, such as, what went wrong ?
I've no idea whether it was a genuine mistake, or whether untruths were being told. I'm also aware that most police officers at the sharp end are doing the very best they can with the limited resources and support available to them. The suspect in this example was eventually charged and put before the crown court. Some time later, he was involved in another situation in which someone died. I'm not going to speculate on what happened, or whether the deceased might still be alive if more resources had been available to the police.

 

[Harbornite]

That's a complete fallacy though, they don't want their own state, they simply want to destroy the states that everyone else lives in

Surely the clue to their intentions is in their name?

Meanwhile 40 people die in road accidents per week on average. EVERY week.

We need to be mindful of it but overstating it is really not helpful at all.

Yeah, accidental. Accidental killings are not usually as newsworthy as terrorism/deliberate killings.