London Bridge incident (03/06)

[najaB]

I was spat at in the street earlier "for last night" and right now I want to die. I feel guilty even though I've played no part. It's horrible.

Shocking. There's not really anything I can say other than please don't let it get to you.

 

[ExRes]

Blaming ordinary Muslims for these events are exactly what the terrorists want you to do. They want to sow the seeds of discord and hate, to create these social divides between Muslims and the rest of the western world.

Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me. I was spat at in the street earlier "for last night" and right now I want to die. I feel guilty even though I've played no part. It's horrible.

So you blame everyone on this forum by saying "Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me", a little ironic don't you think?

 

[najaB]

So you blame everyone on this forum by saying "Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me", a little ironic don't you think?

Not really. The key word there is 'some' - which indicates that only a portion of the posts (and, by extension, the posters) are disgusting.

 

[Bromley boy]

Blaming ordinary Muslims for these events are exactly what the terrorists want you to do. They want to sow the seeds of discord and hate, to create these social divides between Muslims and the rest of the western world.

Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me. I was spat at in the street earlier "for last night" and right now I want to die. I feel guilty even though I've played no part. It's horrible.

That's appalling and you should certainly report it to the relevant authorities.

A lot of people (myself included) have concerns around the spread of fundamentalist Islam, and tensions are obviously running high. However there's absolutely no excuse for individuals to be singled out in this manner.

 

[EM2]

99.99% of the Muslim community is as appalled by what's happened as everyone else.

They are my neighbours and have been for years.
When I was living in London, in a borough that was only 29% White British, Muslims were my neighbours, my GP and receptionist, barber, bus driver, Underground ticket office clerk, takeway owner, cabbie, mini-market owner, deli owner, petrol station attendant, library assistant, bank clerk and quite frankly a nicer bunch of people you could not hope to meet.

Furious and angry? Yeah, about the streets not being cleaned and the train being late.
Threats of violence? Nah.

To be honest, I'm more frightened of white men with bulldog tattoos (like the one that punched me for no reason in Stratford) than I am of any Muslim.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me. I was spat at in the street earlier "for last night" and right now I want to die. I feel guilty even though I've played no part. It's horrible.

I'm truly sorry that you have had to suffer in this way. Reading about your experiences today makes me feel ashamed to be British.

 

[Barn]

99.99% of the Muslim community is as appalled by what's happened as everyone else.

Sadly probably more like 99% to be frank, given the number of people in MI5's sphere of interest.

 

[najaB]

Sadly probably more like 99% to be frank, given the number of people in MI5's sphere of interest.

There were 2,786,635 Muslims in the UK on the 2011 census. 1% would would be 27,866 people. I somehow doubt that there are that many people on MI5's radar...

 

[Bromley boy]

99.99% of the Muslim community is as appalled by what's happened as everyone else.

They are my neighbours and have been for years.
When I was living in London, in a borough that was only 29% White British, Muslims were my neighbours, my GP and receptionist, barber, bus driver, Underground ticket office clerk, takeway owner, cabbie, mini-market owner, deli owner, petrol station attendant, library assistant, bank clerk and quite frankly a nicer bunch of people you could not hope to meet.

Furious and angry? Yeah, about the streets not being cleaned and the train being late.
Threats of violence? Nah.

To be honest, I'm more frightened of white men with bulldog tattoos (like the one that punched me for no reason in Stratford) than I am of any Muslim.

We have discussed this before, Tower Hamlets is the borough you a referring to, I believe? My experience of it is rather different to yours and was one of segregation, ghettoisation and an unwillingness of groups to integrate properly.

There is a problem with the spread of Islamic fundamentalism and a lack of integration. That is something we cannot wish away and cannot continue to be in denial of.

I'm not a fan of organised religion in general but it's fair to say Islam has more than its fair share of extremists and atrocities perpetrated in its name.

 

[EM2]

We have discussed this before, Tower Hamlets is the borough you a referring to, I believe?

Newham.

 

[najaB]

I'm not a fan of organised religion in general but it's fair to say Islam has more than its fair share of extremists and atrocities perpetrated in its name.

No, it doesn't when you have the likes of Drumpf and Bush invading and threatening to invade countries in defence of 'The American way of life' (implying Christian).

 

[Bromley boy]

There were 2,786,635 Muslims in the UK on the 2011 census. 1% would would be 27,866 people. I somehow doubt that there are that many people on MI5's radar...

You would hope so. However:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...evealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

"Huge scale of terror threat revealed: UK home to 23,000 jihadists
Sean O’Neill, Fiona Hamilton, Fariha Karim, Gabriella Swerling
May 27 2017, 12:00pm,
The Times

Armed police patrol the track in the centre of Manchester, Britain, during the Great City Games
EPA
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Intelligence officers have identified 23,000 jihadist extremists living in Britain as potential terrorist attackers, it emerged yesterday.

The scale of the challenge facing the police and security services was disclosed by Whitehall sources after criticism that multiple opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber had been missed.

About 3,000 people from the total group are judged to pose a threat and are under investigation or active monitoring in 500 operations being run by police and intelligence services. The 20,000 others have featured in previous inquiries and are categorised as posing a “residual risk”.

The two terrorists who have struck in Britain this year — Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber, and Khalid Masood, the Westminster killer — were in the pool of “former subjects of interest” and no longer subject to any surveillance."

 

[Bromley boy]

Newham.

Of course. Manor Park in my case. Tower Hamlets is the same neck of the woods, slightly more central.

 

[najaB]

You would hope so. However...

As it says in the your quote from the article, only around 3,000 of them are actively of interest.

 

[Bromley boy]

No, it doesn't when you have the likes of Drumpf and Bush invading and threatening to invade countries in defence of 'The American way of life' (implying Christian).

Isis themselves are on record stating that western foreign policy is not their primary motivation, as per their own internally generated propaganda, referenced in the below article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nabee...-us-because-we-are-not-muslim_b_11793770.html

"Their point is clear: They kill us primarily because we are not Muslim. Leaving no room for doubt, the article goes on to say, “Although some might argue that your foreign policies are the extent of what drives our hatred, this particular reason for hating you is secondary, hence the reason we addressed it at the end of the above list.... [O]ur primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam.”

 

[Bromley boy]

As it says in the your quote from the article, only around 3,000 of them are actively of interest.

It also states the two that struck the uk (Westminster and Manchester) were not within the the 3,000.

You seem to be in a state of serious denial over the scale of the threat we are facing.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder of our Forum Rule regarding referring to external content (such as articles etc):

• If referring to an external source you should put the text in QUOTE tags (
  
  ), provide details of the source and make a relevant comment to promote discussion.

 

[EM2]

"Their point is clear: They kill us primarily because we are not Muslim... [O]ur primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam.”

So why do they kill so many Muslims, like the 90 people murdered in Kabul a few days ago, or the eleven people in Baghdad just after the Manchester bombing?

 

[Pinza-C55]

So why do they kill so many Muslims, like the 90 people murdered in Kabul a few days ago, or the eleven people in Baghdad just after the Manchester bombing?

Because Islam , like Christianity , has several sub sects some of whom are violently opposed to each other. Plus since they regard themselves as being at war then they will regard dead innocent Muslims as collateral damage.

 

[najaB]

It also states the two that struck the uk (Westminster and Manchester) were not within the the 3,000.

If you gave it a moment's thought it would pretty obvious that the majority of successful attacks will be conducted by people who aren't under active observation - precisely because they aren't under active observation.

You seem to be in a state of serious denial over the scale of the threat we are facing.

And you appear to have bought into the hysteria that there's an imminent, existential threat to our society.

Yes, in the last three months some 40 people have died in terrorist attacks, but that number represents a tiny proportion of the c. 153K thousand people who died in the UK from other causes.

 

[Bromley boy]

If you gave it a moment's thought it would pretty obvious that the majority of successful attacks will be conducted by people who aren't under active observation - precisely because they aren't under active observation.
And you appear to have bought into the hysteria that there's an imminent, existential threat to our society.

Yes, in the last three months some 40 people have died in terrorist attacks, but that number represents a tiny proportion of the c. 153K thousand people who died in the UK from other causes.

If I'd been in the wheatsheaf having a pint last night (as I have many times before) I would probably believe there to be an existential threat.

It absolutely is an existential threat. These people hate everything about our way of life, and want to kill us. The attacks we have seen in the UK are trifling compared to what is happening in Isis controlled lands.

It's not all Muslims, it's not even most Muslims, of course it isn't. However, the fact remains that Islamic fundamentalism is a clear and present danger to our society.

I speak for a lot of people when I say I'm getting sick apologists who try to minimise the scale of the problem we are facing.

We need to be more robust in defending our secular values. We also need to stop being afraid to tell people who reject those values that they are not welcome in this country.

 

[AlterEgo]

As it says in the your quote from the article, only around 3,000 of them are actively of interest.

There are many more not actively of interest but on the radar, like the perpetrator of the Westminster atrocity.

 

[Pinza-C55]

And I'm sick of <adjective deleted> who overstate the size of the problem we are facing.

22 innocent people died last week.
This week 7 innocent people died.
29 families lost loved ones.

I think that problem cannot be overstated.

 

[Barn]

If this happened on Friday rather than Saturday, several friends of mine would be dead. If it happened the other week, I would be. As it happened this Saturday, others are grieving instead.

 

[EM2]

If I'd been in the wheatsheaf having a pint last night (as I have many times before) I would probably believe there to be an existential threat.

My wife was in the Horse and Groom pub in Guildford two hours before it was blown up by the IRA.

It's not all Muslims, it's not even most Muslims, of course it isn't. However, the fact remains that Islamic fundamentalism is a clear and present danger to our society.

So are a lot of other things. Like students from Devon that leave bombs on Tube trains.

I speak for a lot of people when I say I'm getting sick apologists who try to minimise the scale of the problem we are facing.

It is minimal. And it's much more of a lower risk than that that was posed by the IRA.

We need to be more robust in defending our secular values. We also need to stop being afraid to tell people who reject those values that they are not welcome in this country.

Do you think that they don't know that? How are you going to stop it?

 

[Barn]

So why do they kill so many Muslims, like the 90 people murdered in Kabul a few days ago, or the eleven people in Baghdad just after the Manchester bombing?

Because ISIS feel that Muslins who do what they consider to be un-Islamic things are apostates, and they hate them even more than they hate us kuffars.

 

[EM2]

Because Islam , like Christianity , has several sub sects some of whom are violently opposed to each other. Plus since they regard themselves as being at war then they will regard dead innocent Muslims as collateral damage.

Daesh and allied groups all align with the Wahhabist creed. It is widely regarded to non-Wahhabis as extremist and dangerous.

 

[Howardh]

The BBC news states that the murderers had been previously "reported" by the public to the police and that "nothing was done" and "not even had their passports taken off them". If that's moderately true, Of course more details will follow in time then the police, home secretary and Prime Minister have a lot to answer to.

Especially if it's a case of having a lot of information on several (thousands?) that overloads the police and they haven't the resources/manpower to deal with it all.

 

[Bromley boy]

If this happened on Friday rather than Saturday, several friends of mine would be dead. If it happened the other week, I would be. As it happened this Saturday, others are grieving instead.

It really brings it home when you know the area. I lived on tooley street and tower bridge road for a few years, worked very locally (more London), I still regularly frequent the wheatsheaf.

Quite a few texts sent/received from various mates last night ensuring we we all ok. Sadly seven people weren't.

 

[EM2]

The BBC news states that the murderers had been previously "reported" by the public to the police and that "nothing was done" and "not even had their passports taken off them". If that's moderately true, Of course more details will follow in time then the police, home secretary and Prime Minister have a lot to answer to.

Especially if it's a case of having a lot of information on several (thousands?) that overloads the police and they haven't the resources/manpower to deal with it all.

But reported for what?
Nothing was done? Or investigations were carried out and no evidence was found?
Passports not confiscated? If there was no reason found for them to be, then they wouldn't be.