Are we entering another golden age?

[daccer]

I have been away from the UK for a few years but have followed developments on the rail network with interest and actually did an ALR last year to see how things were shaping up on the rails after so many years away.

I was very surprised by how vibrant and positive the network felt and also by the obvious signs of investment being pumped into the system and the trains themselves.

My question is this. Despite the issues surrounding the structure of the network and the various TOC's and other entities are we on the verge of a second Golden Age for the Railways in the UK. There seems to be a general consensus (especially from the politicians) that the Railways are vital to the wellbeing of the country and should be nurtured and developed. There are some remaining vestiges of the old penny pinching mentality which dogged BR for so long but it does suddenly seem like Trains are back in vogue and with the looming environment crises and fossil fuel shortages the car must be on a slippery slope.

My second question is this. If the Victorians could build thousands of miles of new lines with little mechanisation and little recourse to business cases and govt money (lines were built for profit by private speculators) why is it so hard to relay a few miles of track here and there when the civils are in place and the Govt has money to spend for once on rail. If we are to have a proper renaissance then it is time to pump some fuel into the fire and lets see a concerted new build programme in place. if the numbers dont quite stack up now you can bet they will do when the lines actually open (all the new lines have seen their business cases understate the usage dramatically).

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

BR became the most efficient user of public cash in its latter years because it was starved of cash by successive governments. Why do you think a lot of the old classes were refurbished instead of new classes being built? Lack of cash and support from the governments.
I doubt 66s will still be working when they are 50 or 60 years old, because they were built to a price. EE and Sulzer stuff is still running round today because it was built properly.

 

[bluenoxid]

Are we entering a golden age. In fact, I think we just don't know. The current financial situation could slot most of the plans which have the potential to put the railways in a golden age. I think the fact that it is getting taken seriously as a transport mode by the general public is demonstrating that we could possibly be entering it

 

[daccer]

I did work for BR towards the end of its time and whilst it was very efficient in spending money there was a general feeling that the company's job was to manage the decline of the network as ordained by those on high. It cannot be denied that much of the problems being faced by railtrack and now Network Rail were caused by the economies forced on BR during the 80's.

As for the durability of the loco fleets there were plenty of classes that lasted less than 15 years before being scrapped. The percentage of locos that reached 30 years of age was pretty small. The 1955 modernisation plan contained a lot of waste and BR paid for this in the later years.

Now suddenly the economies of the past are being replaced by capacity increases and increased usage. The present economic climate is a blip on what is otherwise an upward trend - lets hope the govt doesnt lose its bottle and puts its shoulder behind the railways properly for the first time in five years!.

 

[90019]

My second question is this. If the Victorians could build thousands of miles of new lines with little mechanisation and little recourse to business cases and govt money (lines were built for profit by private speculators) why is it so hard to relay a few miles of track here and there when the civils are in place and the Govt has money to spend for once on rail.

Government policy, corporate greed, ramblers, governmental greed, wildlife, ethnic minorities, farmland, governmental inability to see sense, farmland, etc. etc.

You'll never guess what I dont like!

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

I think the railways have definetely made a slight reusurgance over the lat couple of years but to define things as entering a 'golden age' is slightly exagerating things.

Too many delays/cancellations.
Whie some parts of the country enjoy rail investment others areas are neglected.
Overcrowding a major issue, trains too short particuarly on rush hour services.
Increasing fares annually.
Railway crime still a problem.

 

[charley_17/7]

Politically, I think the Scottish Government and WAG have started to move things in the right direction, after years of going round in circles at Westminster/Whitehall.

I see issues/problems as being:

• lack of leadership/direction (ATOC, RFG, etc. need to unify as one entity)
• DafT meddling, if the Highways Agency can be a QUANGO, why can't we have a Railways Agency?
• branding - we need simple, easy to understand product - IC/SE/Regional/Urban
• fares - collect/protect rather than punish honest pax through fare rises
• think small, rather than big, simpler quicker schemes - 'quick wins'

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I doubt 66s will still be working when they are 50 or 60 years old, because they were built to a price. EE and Sulzer stuff is still running round today because it was built properly.

I disagree fully with this statement. Class 66 worked out of the box, excellent build quality and reliability, lower operational and maintenance cost. I would say, if anything, the class 66 will prove to be the most successful loco ever to work in Britain. Just look at the sheer number of them being built. Let's not forget, there were also class 59 to help introduction into service. I can't help but feel that your opinion is based on a general dislike of the class.

The potential for another golden age is certainly there - potential for more public transport users and holidays within Britain due to financial issues. The OP's point about investment levels is bang on. The victorians put a lot of money into building railways - they also had a definitive style. Modern stations may not win over Isambard Kingdom Brunel, but just take a look at Liverpool South Parkway, Corby, Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly as examples of the quality of design going into modern facilities. We also have a very big advantage over the Victorians; we are building the infrastructure around what works best, without a mish mash of lines all over the place. Not only do we potentially have a recipe for another golden age, but we have the experience to do it right.

 

[Snapper]

A second golden age? There was never a first! Take off the rose tinted glasses and learn about the reality of the Victorian railway system and you'll see a very different perspective. Brunel may have done a very good job of building the GWR, but many other lines were built as things are today - for a price - and the quality wasn't always good. The Victorians could be as bigger 'jerry builders' as anyone else when it suited them.

My personal opinion is that yes, the railways have improved in a whole host of ways, and that vibrancy is certainly evident today. But golden ages are a myth. We face problems today just as the Victorians did.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

A second golden age? There was never a first! Take off the rose tinted glasses and learn about the reality of the Victorian railway system and you'll see a very different perspective. Brunel may have done a very good job of building the GWR, but many other lines were built as things are today - for a price - and the quality wasn't always good. The Victorians could be as bigger 'jerry builders' as anyone else when it suited them.

My personal opinion is that yes, the railways have improved in a whole host of ways, and that vibrancy is certainly evident today. But golden ages are a myth. We face problems today just as the Victorians did.

Missing the point slightly. The golden age refers to a time when public affection with the railway was at a high as well as usage etc. It never claimed to be perfect - in fact many of the problems faced today are BECAUSE of the way the Victorians built it; the WCML has just been upgraded at a cost of billions due to the sinuous way in which it was originally built. The OP envisages a golden age due to the growth in passenger numbers and the introduction of new trains and lines (Javelin and HS1) and times when speed records are being set. It whisks us back to an age when A4's were charging up and down the ECML and giving people a glimpse of what can be acheived. The problems back then were mountainous - the railways lost money hand over fist; too many conflicting movements; generally very slow journey times on generally old and dilapidated stock - but the imagination of the public was captured, as it was by the grand Victorian architecture at the very beginning. The potential is there again. It does not mean all the problems will disappear overnight, but if passenegrs have something they can believe in and be proud of, a golden age will be once again.

 

[Snapper]

Affection as a definition of 'golden age'?

Once again, it never existed. The Victorians were never terribly happy about the railways for a whole host of factors. And the last perceived 'golden age' (the 1930s) produced a mixed picture too - with companies names being distorted to reflect the mood. Thus the LNER was known as the late and never early!

That siad. It's interesting to see the way HSL1 and St Pancras have caught the public imagination. It must be the first time that a railway station has become the focus for a night out:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p46709996.html

 

[Teaboy1]

Nice legs Dawn!! MMmmm...

 

[Snapper]

Nice legs Dawn!! MMmmm...

I presume you've been looking at this then?

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p56882602.html