Southeastern to Waterloo Mainline (29/8~1/9/17, next Xmas 2017)

[Medicy]

Another leaflet put up by Southeastern on their website's Thameslink Programme page detailing which stations are getting services to different terminals

 

[kentman]

After last weekend T3 on the Waterloo Curves the usual NODC comment is now not there on the Berths. So it could be live now, or the signaler just forgot to add it back in Not seen any test train STP's yet.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Another leaflet put up by Southeastern on their website's Thameslink Programme page detailing which stations are getting services to different terminals

Reading through that and trying to summarise, the only route getting services to Waterloo but not Charing Cross seems to be Ramsgate via Canterbury-Tonbridge-Sevenoaks (incl. intermediate stations). There's nothing at all into Charing Cross over that period (but there is into Cannon St). Hastings services seem to be going to Victoria.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Assuming this all goes ahead it could well pull a number of enthusiasts onto these trains.

For those in the know what is the scale of work at waterloo particularly on the international side?

I assume complete strip/demolition of eurostars facilities and refurbishment of the platforms? Someone upthread mentioned final fit out works, is this mearly tiling/lighting/cosmetic or they building mew staff/passenger facilities in the I assume gutted out international terminal?

 

[swt_passenger]

For those in the know what is the scale of work at waterloo particularly on the international side?

I assume complete strip/demolition of eurostars facilities and refurbishment of the platforms? Someone upthread mentioned final fit out works, is this mearly tiling/lighting/cosmetic or they building mew staff/passenger facilities in the I assume gutted out international terminal?

There are other threads that have touched on this, but basically the platforms in the former international terminal are being shortened significantly at both ends, while retaining enough length for 12 car trains. A hundred feet or more taken off at the buffer stops to provide a massive circulation concourse with a ramped bridge across to the existing concourse, and additional stairs and lifts forming a direct route down to the LU Bakerloo and Northern concourse. The long ramped bridge allows for the fact that the international platforms are a good few feet higher than the rest of the station.

Meanwhile at the country end the platforms are also being significantly shortened, and a much more flexible layout of crossovers is being installed to provide all the parallel moves to and from the Windsor side tracks that a high frequency service requires. The new crossovers will be well within the overall canopy.

Bear in mind that Eurostar had a fairly trivial number of services compared to the intended throughput of up to 18 tph when all the Windsor side services are transferred to platforms 19-24.

The platforms are only being prepared for temporary use in August however, after the blockade they return to worksite conditions for final fit out to full specification.

As far as I know, none of the former passenger handling facilities from the Eurostar operations will be re-used for public purposes. There will be rebuilt emergency escape routes from the modified platforms in line with the latest standards, but the planning drawings suggest they won't recycle the Eurostar routes.

In the main station extending platforms 1 to 4 impacts on the points and crossings in the throat, and the curvature of the platform 5 and 6 'island' also has to be changed as it curves towards the suburban tracks at the outer end. This has to be altered and is why the August blockade includes far more low numbered platforms than you might expect.

 

[hwl]

Assuming this all goes ahead it could well pull a number of enthusiasts onto these trains.

For those in the know what is the scale of work at waterloo particularly on the international side?

I assume complete strip/demolition of eurostars facilities and refurbishment of the platforms? Someone upthread mentioned final fit out works, is this mearly tiling/lighting/cosmetic or they building mew staff/passenger facilities in the I assume gutted out international terminal?

In brief summary (i.e. very brief and not complete)
The current (i.e. pre August) phase of international side works includes:

1. Shortening the international platforms to allow new points to be installed closer to buffers, this includes installing extra bridge decks in the gaps where the platform structure just rested on the sides of the track bridge decks. This is key to minimising platform reoccupation times and maximising line capacity on the Windsor lines.

2. Moving buffers away from concourse to allow space for a new mini concourse for the Windsor lines to be created at track level west of the "orchestra pit". This means the platforms are getting shorter at both ends with the most curve sections at both ends coming out of use - this leaves almost straight platforms making dispatch easier (clear lines of sight in the future). the new mini concourse will be free of retail free

3. Gutting the old international checking and security area

4. Removing and replacing the temporary access to the international platforms for example the scaffolding bridge across the orchestra pit. (the international platforms are circa 1m higher than the other platforms or main concourse at that end of the station.)

5. Traction power supply improvements

The future Phase (i.e. post September 2017):

6. A second new concourse for Windsor lines at low level (street level / former international check-in level) with retail space and improved links to tube stations for Windsor lines.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks both, very detailed and clears things up nicely.

The new lifts to the LU stationwill not only shorten journeys for people but ease overcrouding on the main stairs/escalater bank which is often heaving.

 

[jopsuk]

how long will the shortened platforms be? I'm guessing around 250m? Maybe a little longer to potentially allow splitting/joining in the station?

 

[hwl]

how long will the shortened platforms be? I'm guessing around 250m? Maybe a little longer to potentially allow splitting/joining in the station?

Circa 265m

 

[Alteran Ancient]

After last weekend T3 on the Waterloo Curves the usual NODC comment is now not there on the Berths. So it could be live now, or the signaler just forgot to add it back in Not seen any test train STP's yet.

Not sure about the status of the DC, but they were definitely doing work on the curve over the last weekend. Was heading up to Victoria for a quick social and saw workmen and machinery on the curve itself - something I have not seen there for a good 7 years or more! Hopefully we'll see some ECS test runs in the near future to confirm it.

I'm actually bit underwhelmed that it will only be the Ramsgate via S'oaks services using Waterloo, but I can always travel from Bromley down to Sevenoaks just to head back up and say I've done it.

 

[BluePenguin]

Reading through that and trying to summarise, the only route getting services to Waterloo but not Charing Cross seems to be Ramsgate via Canterbury-Tonbridge-Sevenoaks (incl. intermediate stations). There's nothing at all into Charing Cross over that period (but there is into Cannon St). Hastings services seem to be going to Victoria.

The route to Charing cross via Dover Priory also appears to be going to Waterloo as well although less often, I presume they prefer people to use the high-speed trains on the St Pancras circular instead to ease capacity

 

[pompeyfan]

There was something in the won last week saying that they have been recharged if I recall correctly.

 

[nlogax]

Any further news on this one? From what I could see today the trackwork into the old international platforms now looks to be largely complete, though signalling may well be a different story entirely. Would be good to get an idea of potential dates for ECS tests down from Linford St curve.

 

[GW43125]

Took this yesterday of the current state of Waterloo int'l

 

[WA_Driver]

Be interesting to know who will do the piloting as I know that no SWT drivers sign the up & down waterloo curve or the international platforms (not yet anyway) and I don't believe any fright drivers sign the curve either has it hasn't been driven over it for......well as long as I've been at Waterloo (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Be interesting to know who will do the piloting as I know that no SWT drivers sign the up & down waterloo curve or the international platforms (not yet anyway) and I don't believe any fright drivers sign the curve either has it hasn't been driven over it for......well as long as I've been at Waterloo (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

Will the few drivers driving works trains to/from the site literally be the only ones who sign that?

 

[TEW]

Be interesting to know who will do the piloting as I know that no SWT drivers sign the up & down waterloo curve or the international platforms (not yet anyway) and I don't believe any fright drivers sign the curve either has it hasn't been driven over it for......well as long as I've been at Waterloo (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

The International Platforms will be used by SWT services during the August blockade of Platforms 1-9 so SWT drivers will sign it by then. A few tours have use Nine Elms Flyover in recent years, I was on one in November 2014 which used it, that was operated by DB.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

For the purposes of signing will from the Nine Elms flyover to the buffer stops at the former Eurostar be classed as a brand new route?

 

[pompeyfan]

For the purposes of signing will from the Nine Elms flyover to the buffer stops at the former Eurostar be classed as a brand new route?

No, it'll be split into 3 different route codes I'd imagine. The flyover, the mainline as far as international junction, then from there to the platform.

 

[Class 466]

Be interesting to know who will do the piloting as I know that no SWT drivers sign the up & down waterloo curve or the international platforms (not yet anyway) and I don't believe any fright drivers sign the curve either has it hasn't been driven over it for......well as long as I've been at Waterloo (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

SE DMs will Sign the route and Pilot from DMK - WAT.

 

[Class 466]

The Schedules are now in RTT: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J00598/2017/08/29/advanced

 

[tsr]

SE DMs will Sign the route and Pilot from DMK - WAT.

Will the same apply with conductors, being route conducted by their managers?

 

[Class 170101]

I thought DOO was permited inwards of Sevenoaks?

 

[GW43125]

Be interesting to know who will do the piloting as I know that no SWT drivers sign the up & down waterloo curve or the international platforms (not yet anyway) and I don't believe any fright drivers sign the curve either has it hasn't been driven over it for......well as long as I've been at Waterloo (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

There was a charter over it in late 2014 but I don't think anything has gone over it since.

 

[district]

Will the same apply with conductors, being route conducted by their managers?

I thought DOO was permited inwards of Sevenoaks?

This is correct.

 

[tsr]

I thought DOO was permited inwards of Sevenoaks?

This is correct.

Interesting that the Linford Street - Waterloo section won't need conductors. That must be the first time ever for that route going DOO. Not wishing to spark debate about the method of operation on this thread, of course!

 

[theageofthetra]

Interesting that the Linford Street - Waterloo section won't need conductors. That must be the first time ever for that route going DOO. Not wishing to spark debate about the method of operation on this thread, of course!

How will they be dispatched from Waterloo?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Interesting that the Linford Street - Waterloo section won't need conductors. That must be the first time ever for that route going DOO. Not wishing to spark debate about the method of operation on this thread, of course!

DOO in passenger service into Waterloo isn't permitted in the Sectional Appendix - so it'll have to have guards. Not sure if they'll be DOO Sevenoaks - Denmark Hill but they'll certainly need guards past there.
Although if memory serves the guards stay on into London and back so they could be used that way

Haven't a clue I'm afraid!

If DOO, presumably CD/RA if fitted to refurbished platforms as standard, or else bat and flag / lamp.

CD/RA not being fitted as I understand. Too much money/hassle for 3 days use.

 

[tsr]

How will they be dispatched from Waterloo?

Haven't a clue I'm afraid!

If DOO, presumably CD/RA if fitted to refurbished platforms as standard, or else bat and flag / lamp.

 

[WA_Driver]

I would say CD/RA will be fitted/used. As no doubt empty rolling stock to Clapham Yard & Wimbledon Park, which is DOO will be leaving from those platforms.