Smoking ban, the impact 10 years on.

[86246]

I think South West Trains was the last other than GNER and the Caledonian Sleeper.

With other operators I think it was First Great Western (2000), Virgin Trains (2001), Midland Mainline (2003), Scotrail (1995 but local Strathclyde 1989), Reginoal Railways and Network South East (1990-1993), Northern Ireland Railways (1997), Wales and West (1998), Eurostar (2001).

National Express East Anglia were amongst the last as well on the Norwich-London hauled stock. I believe that went in 2004.

 

[Jimini]

South West Trains on longer distance stock (eg slam door stock, 159s and 442s) were the last operator other than GNER to allow smoking, right up to 2004. <snip>

Yep, I remember the smoking carriages on the Reading slam door stock back in 2003/4. Little ashtrays built into the arm rests too. Even back then it seemed a little odd as so many other TOCs had already banned smoking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yep, I remember the smoking carriages on the Reading slam door stock back in 2003/4. Little ashtrays built into the arm rests too. Even back then it seemed a little odd as so many other TOCs had already banned smoking.

Remember those on planes? Crikey, 35,000 feet with a piece of tin foil between you and death, and a load of highly flammable duty-free spirits in the overheads and several tonnes of paraffin in the wings, and you used to let people set fire to leaves rolled up in paper...

As for SWT I expect they coincided it with the publicity gain of a new fleet.

 

[edwin_m]

I think one of the refurbishments of the Mk4 stock provide extra ventilation in the saloons at each extreme end, which became the smoking areas but only for a couple of years until it was banned.

The Pendolinos have never had smoking areas but the colour used for the panelling always reminds me of those pubs and other places that had seen enough smoke to have a thin coating of nicotine on the walls (which would just dissolve through any new coat of paint and re-appear). One of the reasons I find them claustrophobic and not very pleasant, as the association brings back bad memories of being in smoky areas.

 

[mpthomson]

Vaping is not "smoking" because no smoke is produced.

However it's still quite likely to be classed as part of smoking under the legislation in the not too distant future. Some of the recent research on vaping and the dangers it poses to the user don't make pleasant reading.

 

[jopsuk]

The latest restrictions on cigarette packaging and sales also included restrictions on the power of e-cigarettes and the composition​ of the fluids. Regulation (and safety testing) is finally catching up with what has been something of a wild west.

 

[northwichcat]

However it's still quite likely to be classed as part of smoking under the legislation in the not too distant future. Some of the recent research on vaping and the dangers it poses to the user don't make pleasant reading.

Surely the reason for smoking bans relate more to the possible effects of passive smoking than to the possible effects of smoking.

I heard one of the reasons for the e-cigarettes being banned by TOCs was because from a distance it's hard to distinguish whether someone's smoking a cigarette or an e-cigarette, which can then give the impression smoking is permitted when it's not.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely the reason for smoking bans relate more to the possible effects of passive smoking than to the possible effects of smoking.

If vaping is a danger to the user as suggested by the previous quote, it must also pose some degree of danger to others nearby.

 

[thenorthern]

National Express East Anglia were amongst the last as well on the Norwich-London hauled stock. I believe that went in 2004.

Yes your right National Express East Anglia banned smoking in September 2004 which was after South West Trains which banned smoking in May 2004.

 

[DelW]

As for SWT I expect they coincided it with the publicity gain of a new fleet.

That's correct - I have a copy of SWT's 'Your New Trains' leaflet dated Nov 2003, which says 'Inside you will notice: ... No smoking throughout ... '

IIRC the CIGs and VEPs kept their smoking sections until their withdrawal.

 

[rebmcr]

If vaping is a danger to the user as suggested by the previous quote, it must also pose some degree of danger to others nearby.

Not at all. Dangers such as the device emitting high-temperature liquid into the user's mouth will cause them to have a very bad day, but are not particularly hazardous to bystanders.

 

[thenorthern]

With vaping some of the older style vaping kits looked like real cigarettes and even had the glowing tip which made it look like they were really smoking tobacco. It was therefore easier just to ban the whole thing.

I know at Fishguard Harbour for a while the smoking ban didn't apply as the station is owned by Stena Line I don't know if that is still the case.

One thing to remember is that the ban in the United Kingdom is much stricter than most countries as the only exemptions are designated Hotel Rooms, nursing homes, prisons,
rooms in offshore oil rigs (its probably safer that way), specialist tobacco shops for cigars & pipes only and tobacco research facilities.

In many countries such as the United States and parts of Europe locations such as pubs that don't serve food, private clubs, cigar bars and separate smoking rooms are exempt from smoke free legislation.

The ban in the United Kingdom is also strictly enforced and very few places flout it.

 

[northwichcat]

I know at Fishguard Harbour for a while the smoking ban didn't apply as the station is owned by Stena Line I don't know if that is still the case.

I recall going on an Irish Ferries service after Ireland had implemented a smoking ban but before Britain had and there was an announcement saying something like "As we are an Irish operator we follow the Irish smoking legislation."

 

[northwichcat]

I think South West Trains was the last other than GNER and the Caledonian Sleeper.

With other operators I think it was First Great Western (2000), Virgin Trains (2001), Midland Mainline (2003), Scotrail (1995 but local Strathclyde 1989), Reginoal Railways and Network South East (1990-1993), Northern Ireland Railways (1997), Wales and West (1998), Eurostar (2001).

GNER got rid of smoking carriages at the end of August 2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4192862.stm

 

[thenorthern]

I recall going on an Irish Ferries service after Ireland had implemented a smoking ban but before Britain had and there was an announcement saying something like "As we are an Irish operator we follow the Irish smoking legislation."

GNER got rid of smoking carriages at the end of August 2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4192862.stm

That would seem about right, I know that smoking is still allowed in certain outdoor areas of ferries.

I know with GNER it was because of the up and coming smoking ban in Scotland that they banned smoking on board trains. Had that not have been the case I think they would have kept smoking on board trains.

 

[yorksrob]

That's correct - I have a copy of SWT's 'Your New Trains' leaflet dated Nov 2003, which says 'Inside you will notice: ... No smoking throughout ... '

IIRC the CIGs and VEPs kept their smoking sections until their withdrawal.

On the South Eastern and South Central, I'm sure smoking carriages went long before the slammers.

I seem to recall seeing on the news a campaign where disgruntled smokers had taken over a buffet car as a protest against removing smoking carriages during the 1990's.

 

[thenorthern]

I don't recall smoking being allowed on any trains built after privatisation.

I know Midland Mainline never allowed it on their Turbostars and Meridian trains, Virgin never allowed it on their new trains and I can't think of any operator that did.

I would expect that the Intercity 225 or the Class 158s may have been the last trains built that allowed smoking in some part of the train.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Was it ever permitted to smoke on Eurostar?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Was it ever permitted to smoke on Eurostar?

Yes it was ...I think.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On the South Eastern and South Central, I'm sure smoking carriages went long before the slammers.

I seem to recall seeing on the news a campaign where disgruntled smokers had taken over a buffet car as a protest against removing smoking carriages during the 1990's.

That was led by a guy who "owned" Tooting Market , but am told he ran a fag shop there , but commuted in from somewhere like Burgess Hill , and organised rebellions in the brake van section. BTP let it run for a little while. apparently.

 

[yorksrob]

That was led by a guy who "owned" Tooting Market , but am told he ran a fag shop there , but commuted in from somewhere like Burgess Hill , and organised rebellions in the brake van section. BTP let it run for a little while. apparently.

Yes, it was definitely the Brighton mainline I recall.

 

[thenorthern]

Was it ever permitted to smoke on Eurostar?

Yes it was ...I think.

Yes it was banned in 2001 I think.

 

[LiftFan]

More fool them. Either check or only risk it when the risk associated with being kicked off the bus is minor.

Not that they should be doing it, just they didn't think through what would happen if they were caught (personally I think that is funny and my evil sides wishes that it was the last bus of the day!).

Yes, it was actually the last bus and the walk to the nearest town/train station was about 3 miles. Serves them right!

 

[thenorthern]

Its important to remember with E-Cigs very few people used them until the smoking ban came in.

When the ban came in there was the issue in that because the law had been written for regular tobacco no one knew what the law show be for them. For a time it was legal to sell them to under 18s and there were no restrictions on advertising them.

 

[sarahj]

Yes, it was definitely the Brighton mainline I recall.

I used to commute around 2001 from Brighton to London. The train home was a 319 and there was a buffet (ex) car. Some folks may have smoked in there on about 2 peak evening services. I could not possibly comment. BBC sent a undercover reporter one day when I was not there, things got heated. Not long after Southern put the 377's on. There was a bit of a community, we used to have meals and do 'charity' stuff, and fred, the trolley guy used to make a bomb just staying in the one place. I gave up the commute not long after and got work in Brighton.

As an aside, now I work the trains, there are a few odd groups around like we were. Fred went went Southern dumped catering. (he had been there since BR buffet car times, Sad). Funny things is, we were drinking and having a laugh and never used to notice the delays, or even care where we were. (and it was 1/2 a coach on a 12 coach train)
Fun times.

 

[yorksrob]

I used to commute around 2001 from Brighton to London. The train home was a 319 and there was a buffet (ex) car. Some folks may have smoked in there on about 2 peak evening services. I could not possibly comment. BBC sent a undercover reporter one day when I was not there, things got heated. Not long after Southern put the 377's on. There was a bit of a community, we used to have meals and do 'charity' stuff, and fred, the trolley guy used to make a bomb just staying in the one place. I gave up the commute not long after and got work in Brighton.

As an aside, now I work the trains, there are a few odd groups around like we were. Fred went went Southern dumped catering. (he had been there since BR buffet car times, Sad). Funny things is, we were drinking and having a laugh and never used to notice the delays, or even care where we were. (and it was 1/2 a coach on a 12 coach train)
Fun times.

I thought it was only the BIG's that had buffet cars ?

I can see the attraction of having a congenial beer on the way home from work. The London - Brighton express must have experienced a real drop in ambience when the 8DIG's were replaced with slidey-door things.

Sadly even the buffet trolley has now gone from my old local line from Ashford

 

[JonathanH]

I thought it was only the BIG's that had buffet cars ?

I can see the attraction of having a congenial beer on the way home from work. The London - Brighton express must have experienced a real drop in ambience when the 8DIG's were replaced with slidey-door things.

Sadly even the buffet trolley has now gone from my old local line from Ashford

The replacement 319/2s had a funny lounge area which had a place for a trolley - catering was outsourced to Puccinos.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Rail_Class_319-2_-_breakfast_bar.jpg

By the time the 377/3s (initially 375/3s) took over the special provision had gone.

 

[yorksrob]

The replacement 319/2s had a funny lounge area which had a place for a trolley - catering was outsourced to Puccinos.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Rail_Class_319-2_-_breakfast_bar.jpg

By the time the 377/3s (initially 375/3s) took over the special provision had gone.

Ah well, at least they made an effort for a time !

 

[BestWestern]

I would expect that the Intercity 225 or the Class 158s may have been the last trains built that allowed smoking in some part of the train.

Smoking was never allowed on 158s, surely?

 

[JonathanH]

Smoking was never allowed on 158s, surely?

It really was, and in 159s. They allocated part of the 57xxx car one side of the divider. The same applied to 155s and 156s. A small ashtray was fitted between the seats where there is now a lump of plastic.

Needless to say, most of my journeys on them in the early days was in the 52xxx coach if I could help it.