'Ironing Board' seats

[Starmill]

Even BBC News' Transport Correspondent recently tweeted Thameslink to express his displeasure at the hardness of the 387 seats that passengers doing Kings Lynn to London journeys will now have to endure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh and for future reference it is actually quicker to get the 1815 from East Croydon and change at Clapham Junction than getting the 1810 all the way

By 5 minutes, and losing the wider choice of seating

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. They are not single-piece, they are two pieces stiched together - and the one ones were the same as the new ones. The old ones sloped unusually, you're right, the new ones slope the same way. The difference is that the new ones are softer and have a softer moquette - which makes it even more odd that you claim to prefer hard seats.

If that's the case them being softer must mean that they can compress so the slope isn't odd. But that just means they are *OK*, not my preference. I never said I *liked* them.

Try the ironing boards on a class 700 and you might have a different opinion.

I have done. Legroom is poor, but that's not the seat's fault.

I really find the FAINSA seating lacks any kind of support for the lower back.

Is it perhaps that it's shaped too specifically? I find it supports my lower back perfectly. Is it therefore contoured to the shape of *my* lower back which may perhaps be unusual?

Merseyrail pacer seats don't deserve the bad rap they get in my opinion...

*waits to get lynched*

They're average 1990s low back bus seats, nowt wrong with them in that setting per-se though they are a bit upright but without enough support for being so. Where they fail is the installation - no legroom, 3+2 and the window side one rammed against the wall.

 

[rebmcr]

In the correct configuration with tables, armrests and good legroom and spacing, which the 377/7 you travelled on does have (alongside with 377/6s and 387s) they are one of my favourite seats. I like the firmness and design of the seat and the posture is very good.

Squeezed in with no legroom or other amenities like they are on the 700 though...

Yep, I'm only 5'11½" and I can't fit my knees into a 700 airline seat comfortably.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I really find the FAINSA seating lacks any kind of support for the lower back.

I don't understand how one company can make all its seats so badly. It takes a special sort of ineptitude to have an entire product range that's awful. The Fainsa Cosmic bus seat is the absolute worst- yes, worse than an Urban90- and the railway seats seem to be even less comfortable.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I haven't found any modern train seats as soft as those in a typical preserved Mk1. Why? Is it because modern crash safety rules require increasingly hard seats?

 

[43096]

I don't understand how one company can make all its seats so badly. It takes a special sort of ineptitude to have an entire product range that's awful. The Fainsa Cosmic bus seat is the absolute worst- yes, worse than an Urban90- and the railway seats seem to be even less comfortable.

Maybe because they are cheaper? And in industries like bus and rail, with lots of the "bus bandit" companies involved (and DfT), they will go for cheap and nasty every time.

 

[ScotTrains]

Maybe because they are cheaper? And in industries like bus and rail, with lots of the "bus bandit" companies involved (and DfT), they will go for cheap and nasty every time.

I agree. Modern train seats, especially those ironing board ones, are awful! I can't understand how anyone can actually like them, unless you are an accountant for a train company! They are upright, thin and hard. They lack cushioning. I choose to travel by train rather than bus partly because it should be more comfortable.
Train companies should be investing in proper, comfortable seats especially with the advent of self drive cars. Who wants to be stuck on a horrible hard seat for a few hours?
Perhaps the ironing board seats are a way to encourage people to upgrade to 1st class! Mind you the 1st class seats on Scotrail's new class 385 are not much better!

 

[richa2002]

Put it this way, if ironing boards seats are so good, why aren't we seeing the latest cars appear with them...

 

[D365]

Put it this way, if ironing boards seats are so good, why aren't we seeing the latest cars appear with them...

I've never seen a production car with IC70 seats, or the seats from the Mk3-derived EMUs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The answer is probably "because car seats last about 10 years with someone sitting on them about twice daily at most, while the same seats wouldn't last more than a month or two on a train".

 

[physics34]

I haven't found any modern train seats as soft as those in a typical preserved Mk1. Why? Is it because modern crash safety rules require increasingly hard seats?

fire regulations have had an affect on trains seats for sure, but not sure on the specifics.

 

[physics34]

Id like ABC (association of british commuters) to get involved in this. The seats are clearly not adequate for longer journeys.
As someone said earlier that if these hard seats were that comfortable, then all our sofas at home and car seats would be hard.

sprung seats are of course more costly to manufacture and are now a big thing of the past... It now seems that an inch of memory foam is meant to adequate.

Anyone with bad back issues will find these seats an issue. I really wonder what kind of testing has been done with these seats and long journeys.

 

[D365]

As someone said earlier that if these hard seats were that comfortable, then all our sofas at home and car seats would be hard.

But as others have said, durability is just as much a consideration, the wear-and-tear that seats are subjected to is only going to increase if anything.

 

[physics34]

But as others have said, durability is just as much a consideration, the wear-and-tear that seats are subjected to is only going to increase if anything.

of course having these hard seats saves on maintenance, but if the aim is for passengers to have a "comfortable journey" then to have nice seats should be factored into cost and the replacement cushions or whatever is needed should be part of any refurbishment costs or general exams.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Id like ABC (association of british commuters) to get involved in this. The seats are clearly not adequate for longer journeys.

Aren't they? I made a two hour journey in one on Wednesday and did not experience discomfort.

I think it is probably fair to say that *some* people do not find them adequate for long journeys, though.

Must admit I like the Chiltern idea (also on some Southern Electrostars) of fitting two types of seats so one can choose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone with bad back issues will find these seats an issue.

SOME people with back issues will find these seats an issue.

I find my back (which does cause me issues from time to time) prefers a hard, supportive seat.

 

[physics34]

Aren't they? I made a two hour journey in one on Wednesday and did not experience discomfort.

I think it is probably fair to say that *some* people do not find them adequate for long journeys, though.

Must admit I like the Chiltern idea (also on some Southern Electrostars) of fitting two types of seats so one can choose.

i have to say, when ive asked people about the 700s for example, 90% of them have commented on the hard seats without even being prompted by me.

An american relative couldnt believe how hard they were on GATEX 387s when he got on one from the airport.

I think there is a large middle of the road section of the travelling public would say they are adequate but not comfortable.

 

[physics34]

SOME people with back issues will find these seats an issue.

I find my back (which does cause me issues from time to time) prefers a hard, supportive seat.

Everyone has their preferences....id suggest that the 377 2x2 seating (earlier type....) would suit the most people...they never give me issues and seem to be firm-ish....maybe not upright enough, but i think that seat is the closest to "acceptable" in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there is a large middle of the road section of the travelling public would say they are adequate but not comfortable.

I do prefer the other controversial seat, the "tombstone" from the GWR HST, and that isn't quite as hard and is better contoured. ScotRail's new EMUs will be fitted with a variant of the "ironing board" with a deeper, contoured cushion, which having sat on one in the mockup is noticeably better.

 

[physics34]

I do prefer the other controversial seat, the "tombstone" from the GWR HST, and that isn't quite as hard and is better contoured. ScotRail's new EMUs will be fitted with a variant of the "ironing board" with a deeper, contoured cushion, which having sat on one in the mockup is noticeably better.

arrrgggghhhh, i sat on one from Paddington to swansea.....awful... i mean i am a bit overweight, which obviously may contribute to the discomfort, but then so are many many people

 

[Bletchleyite]

Everyone has their preferences....id suggest that the 377 2x2 seating (earlier type....) would suit the most people...they never give me issues and seem to be firm-ish....maybe not upright enough, but i think that seat is the closest to "acceptable" in my opinion.

Yes, I'm happy with those, the armrests are a *bit* high (and I'm tall, I hate to think what they're like for short people) but otherwise I have no issues with the seat, indeed, I sat in one for the journey the other way and that was fine too.

arrrgggghhhh, i sat on one from Paddington to swansea.....awful... i mean i am a bit overweight, which obviously may contribute to the discomfort, but then so are many many people

I'm 6' 4" and 18.5 stone and I like them

In the end it's probably just down to personal preference. I would hate a return to the Mk1 seat or InterCity 70, both I find really uncomfortable. The original Class 158 seat is decent, though, albeit too tightly packed in actual 158s. Same with the 1990s Chapman seat, though the other type you get on Northern DMUs is rubbish, no support whatsoever and knackered base springs.

 

[MK Tom]

If you want a good high-backed seat, I really like the ones in East Midlands Trains' 158s. The Meridians also have excellent seating in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you want a good high-backed seat, I really like the ones in East Midlands Trains' 158s.

Those are the "tombstones" also found in ATW and ScotRail 158s, ATW Mk3s and GWR HSTs, as well as PKP FLIRTs and RailJets. Yes, those are my favourite UK railway seat at present.

The Meridians also have excellent seating in my opinion.

I'm less of a fan of those because the single-piece double seat with no gap between them makes them feel a bit claustrophobic. Comfortable enough though.

 

[GW43125]

An american relative couldnt believe how hard they were on GATEX 387s when he got on one from the airport.

Had GatEx 387s from Brighton to Clapham, despite having the carriage to myself I decided to stand from Hassocks to Wivelsfield as the seats were actually painful!

 

[physics34]

Had GatEx 387s from Brighton to Clapham, despite having the carriage to myself I decided to stand from Hassocks to Wivelsfield as the seats were actually painful!

its a bad situation.

 

[greaterwest]

Those are the "tombstones" also found in ATW and ScotRail 158s, ATW Mk3s and GWR HSTs, as well as PKP FLIRTs and RailJets. Yes, those are my favourite UK railway seat at present.

Must agree with this, I've done many long journeys (Reading to Penzance, Cambrian Coast to Birmingham, North Wales Coast to Cardiff) on these, I could sit on them all day and they are by far one of the best types of seat currently on the network.

They're also found in SWT's class 458 first class compartment.

The ironing boards, however; when I find myself on a Southern service I try and find myself a seat in the carriage of 2+2 tables, where the low back cushioned seats are. I find the ironing boards incredibly uncomfortable and I found myself standing during a 25 minute journey on the Coastway route this afternoon.

 

[antharro]

I'm not a huge fan of most train seats, but there are some exceptions. Virgin Pendolino first class seats are quite nice. As are FGW's old first class seats. (The new ones are a bit hard - maybe they'll wear in and soften up a bit over time). Didn't mind their standard class seats for a couple of hours but ideally needed to can get up and walk around from time to time. 442 original first and standard seats were good. I don't mind 444 first and standard, but with standard I need a bit of legroom and need to get up and walk around a bit from time to time.

Then again, it's probably a good idea to get up and walk around from time to time if possible!

Absolutely hate 450 in standard, and any of the seats in Southern's Electrostars. And the first class in the Gatwick Express is an insult to the term "first class". Bloody awful things. Far too hard and upright for my liking. I guess as has been said, they're cheap, so they're popular. There's nothing good about them IMO and I actively avoid anything run by Southern that isn't a 455. (And I only use those for short journeys). Oddly enough, I don't mind SWT's 455s, and I've sat on one from Reading to Waterloo!

 

[jon0844]

Why are the 387 seat backs so much higher than the 700s? Clearly there are safety standards, but if the 700s can be lower then why couldn't the 387s?

It not only makes the train seem more cramped, but also makes it hard to see if seats are occupied.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ironing boards, however; when I find myself on a Southern service I try and find myself a seat in the carriage of 2+2 tables, where the low back cushioned seats are.

Those are not "ironing boards", they are an older design. On Southern Electrostars with "ironing boards" the seating is the same throughout the train.