Theresa May calls General Election on 8th June.

[northwichcat]

Very true. Even if she gets back with a similar majority to the last parliament or just a little better, her position will be massively weakened -- and that not just domestically but also in the eyes of the EU people she will have to negotiate with. The vanity of the decision to call this election becomes clearer by the day. The one winner in all this is Jeremy Corbyn personally, who has in general come across very well indeed. It's just a pity he seems to be surrounded by such ghastly people who have not come across at all well (Abbott, Thornberry, ....).

Corbyn was expected to do badly so he was always in a no lose position.

It's interesting Labour still haven't said who the senior Labour party person will be at tonight's BBC debate. I wonder if they decided a couple of weeks ago but are being tactical? One suggestion is Corbyn might appear after all despite saying he wouldn't take part in a debate if May was absent.

 

[Domh245]

UKIP might not have any MPs so that leaves the DUP as the most likely option but as Northern Ireland voted to Remain in the EU it's difficult to see them forming an alliance with a pro-Brexit party anymore than the Lib Dems would.

The DUP were in favour of Brexit

 

[northwichcat]

The DUP were in favour of Brexit

But could it be argued that they being undemocratic if they help push Brexit through when NI didn't want it? Cameron told us the majority of Conservative MPs were in favour of Remain but now they are pushing through Brexit following the referendum result.

 

[Barn]

But could it be argued that they being undemocratic if they help push Brexit through when NI didn't want it? Cameron told us the majority of Conservative MPs were in favour of Remain but now they are pushing through Brexit following the referendum result.

If you believe in the current devolution system (and one suspects unionists are probably among the most likely to), EU membership and foreign affairs are UK matters, not "English", "Welsh", "Scottish" or "Northern Irish" matters. So the DUP are acting perfectly democratically by looking at the referendum result as a whole.

 

[ooo]

Corbyn was expected to do badly so he was always in a no lose position.

It's interesting Labour still haven't said who the senior Labour party person will be at tonight's BBC debate. I wonder if they decided a couple of weeks ago but are being tactical? One suggestion is Corbyn might appear after all despite saying he wouldn't take part in a debate if May was absent.

It's been announced that Corbyn will be taking part

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[Howardh]

It's been announced that Corbyn will be taking part

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He's coming across very well, it's been noted that voters who don't necessarily like his policies are actually warming to him. Think that applies to me...

On the other hand May appears arrogant and aloof, not qualities that generally endear themselves to the wider public. No idea whether it's wise to keep her out of these debates, I get the "everything to lose" senario, but to me it looks defeatist, something to hide.

 

[AlterEgo]

But could it be argued that they being undemocratic if they help push Brexit through when NI didn't want it? Cameron told us the majority of Conservative MPs were in favour of Remain but now they are pushing through Brexit following the referendum result.

LOL at the idea of the DUP being concerned about appearing "undemocratic". NI politics ain't like that.

 

[me123]

But could it be argued that they being undemocratic if they help push Brexit through when NI didn't want it? Cameron told us the majority of Conservative MPs were in favour of Remain but now they are pushing through Brexit following the referendum result.

I wouldn't necessarily agree, but given that leaving the EU is bound do have implications for the border in NI (whatever they may be) the DUP could be unpopular if they support a deal that erects barriers or destabilises the situation in NI. Of course, I think NI should absolutely be a part of the discussions for the same reason, as they are usually woefully underrepresented at Westminster and there is a risk of them being forgotten. But it should be a cross party approach.

 

[chris11256]

It's been announced that Corbyn will be taking part

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Do these debates have a wide impact, given the limited numbers who tine in(compared to the electorate as a whole)?

Personally I avoid them as it always ends up with several politicians all shouting & arguing with each other.

I can see why Corbyn has joined, he has nothing to loose. But on the other hand I can also see why May hasn't joined, she has everything to loose.

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't necessarily agree, but given that leaving the EU is bound do have implications for the border in NI (whatever they may be) the DUP could be unpopular if they support a deal that erects barriers or destabilises the situation in NI. Of course, I think NI should absolutely be a part of the discussions for the same reason, as they are usually woefully underrepresented at Westminster and there is a risk of them being forgotten. But it should be a cross party approach.

Northern Ireland have 1 MP per 100,000 residents. That isn't that different to England. Of course the issue in NI is a lot of people see themselves as Irish not British and vote for Sinn Fein knowing that will leave them unrepresented in Westminster.

 

[Barn]

Do these debates have a wide impact, given the limited numbers who tine in(compared to the electorate as a whole)?

Personally I avoid them as it always ends up with several politicians all shouting & arguing with each other.

I can see why Corbyn has joined, he has nothing to loose. But on the other hand I can also see why May hasn't joined, she has everything to loose.

I think they are capable of harming a party as if something goes wrong the clip of it can be all over the news / YouTube. It's less clear how much they help, although the fact of May's absence isn't going to do her any favours

 

[DarloRich]

brave move by Corbyn to appear on the debate tonight. it will be 6 against one and everyone will be out to get him:

The left centre (Lib dems/Greens) parties want the labour voters who don't like Corbyn, the SNP want his Scottish voters (those that remain) and PC want his Welsh voters while UKIP are targeting old school working class Labour voters in areas like Sunderland. The Conservatives just want to land credibility blows.

BTW - May cant win now. Appear and she is dancing to the Corbyn tune and has "u turned" again. Stay away and she is a chicken. Clever from Labour IF it doesn't back fire.

 

[AlterEgo]

Wonder if this was Corbyn's strategy all along. He now appears on the front foot, and as long as he is properly briefed then it will end up being a smart move indeed. Nicely played - so far.

Who is overseeing his campaign?

 

[Howardh]

Now that Corbyn's turning up, May has walked blindfolded into a problem.
Tories aren't doing so well in the polls. A bad Rudd performance will make them sink further, and lower than a 16(ish) majority means May's toast. Gone by the end of next month.
However, if Rudd does an excellent job, saves the Tories bacon, then why not have her as leader than the reviled weak and wobbly chicken that's May? Gove will be sharpening his knife again, if not to insert the dagger himself then to set up a stalking-horse to May to get rid and then elect Rudd on the second round.
Against that, however, isn't Rudd a remainer - which half the party would like and the other half aghast?
But tonight May is sending in a deputy who could get a hundred not-out.

 

[northwichcat]

Question is Corbyn said he wouldn't appear if May didn't and sat out the ITV debate on that basis, so why the change? Have perhaps Labour thought Corbyn would be more likely to win votes than senior shadow cabinet members?

 

[Howardh]

Question is Corbyn said he wouldn't appear if May didn't and sat out the ITV debate on that basis, so why the change? Have perhaps Labour thought Corbyn would be more likely to win votes than senior shadow cabinet members?

There's still an open invite for May to turn up.

 

[Barn]

Tories aren't doing so well in the polls. A bad Rudd performance will make them sink further

The Tories have actually barely moved in the polls - they were and are in the mid 40% range. The gap has closed because Labour has improved from mid 20s to mid 30s

 

[me123]

Northern Ireland have 1 MP per 100,000 residents. That isn't that different to England. Of course the issue in NI is a lot of people see themselves as Irish not British and vote for Sinn Fein knowing that will leave them unrepresented in Westminster.

Even the MPs who aren't SF certainly don't get a lot of airtime though. The Greens and Plaid Cymru both manage to get more airtime and have a greater influence despite only having a handful of MPs between them. We hardly ever hear from the Northern Irish MPs, and regardless of your opinion on Ireland's future I think that they could be better represented (or perhaps just heard?) at the Westminster level as long as that parliament has influence over Northern Ireland.

 

[EM2]

There's still an open invite for May to turn up.

From the BBC:

Theresa May says Jeremy Corbyn is paying more attention to the number of TV appearances he's doing than the issue of Brexit. That's what I'm focusing on, she says.

So if May says Corbyn should be paying more attention to Brexit, she's tacitly admitting that she thinks he's in with a chance of winning.

 

[northwichcat]

Even the MPs who aren't SF certainly don't get a lot of airtime though. The Greens and Plaid Cymru both manage to get more airtime and have a greater influence despite only having a handful of MPs between them. We hardly ever hear from the Northern Irish MPs, and regardless of your opinion on Ireland's future I think that they could be better represented (or perhaps just heard?) at the Westminster level as long as that parliament has influence over Northern Ireland.

Greens got over a million votes at the last general election, while the DUP got 180,000 votes.

There has been quite a lot of media attention on NI politics this year, mainly due to the inconclusive result of the election in NI and the death of a certain senior politician.

 

[Howardh]

The Tories have actually barely moved in the polls - they were and are in the mid 40% range. The gap has closed because Labour has improved from mid 20s to mid 30s

Fair enough, it's the gap that's closed.

 

[Howardh]

Theresa.

The woman who won't show up in front of the public in a debate because she's "too busy" with Brexit, despite calling an election which takes six weeks out of her Brexit time.
You
Couldn't
Make
It
Up.
This woman is not just incompetent, she's beginning to look delusional. Six weeks ago or so she was the Tory leader, unchallenged, taking the country into it's most serious political uprooting since the second world war.
Since she uttered the phrase "we're having a general election" she's avoided questions, mucked up the womanifesto, ducked debates, sounded cold and heartless, has come across as being a shifty chancer and has lost all credibility in all but the most die-hard Tory households. Word has it that Tory candidates hate her.
And all she had to do was turn up to beat Corbyn, a man whom his own MP's don't want in power.
I voted Tory in 2015 - but I wouldn't vote for them/her this time if the choice was that or taking a morning commuter train from Bolton.
Yes, I am aware that some are voting for her as "look at the opposition" - but people are seeing the opposition and warming to him. He has got one advantage over May, he's human and not a robotic repeater of slogans which are being torn to shreds day by day.

 

[bramling]

Theresa.

The woman who won't show up in front of the public in a debate because she's "too busy" with Brexit, despite calling an election which takes six weeks out of her Brexit time.
You
Couldn't
Make
It
Up.
This woman is not just incompetent, she's beginning to look delusional. Six weeks ago or so she was the Tory leader, unchallenged, taking the country into it's most serious political uprooting since the second world war.
Since she uttered the phrase "we're having a general election" she's avoided questions, mucked up the womanifesto, ducked debates, sounded cold and heartless, has come across as being a shifty chancer and has lost all credibility in all but the most die-hard Tory households. Word has it that Tory candidates hate her.
And all she had to do was turn up to beat Corbyn, a man whom his own MP's don't want in power.
I voted Tory in 2015 - but I wouldn't vote for them/her this time if the choice was that or taking a morning commuter train from Bolton.
Yes, I am aware that some are voting for her as "look at the opposition" - but people are seeing the opposition and warming to him. He has got one advantage over May, he's human and not a robotic repeater of slogans which are being torn to shreds day by day.

I still think people will end up voting for her as the "least worst" option. A lot of people I know have wobbled away from May in the last couple of weeks, but are now swaying back to her, if reluctantly. I think this effect will be widespread.

The election was hers to win big. I think the problem was she became PM by being the "not rock the boat" candidate, but some charisma is required to win an election. Cameron and Blair understood this. Fortunately for her the opposition is worse, and the Manchester attack probably benefited her predicament.

 

[cf111]

May's human shield is taking a pounding here.

 

[DarloRich]

absolute chaos - moderator cant keep control - people shouting over each other - Corbyn hectoring to much. May right to stay away?

 

[bramling]

absolute chaos - moderator cant keep control - people shouting over each other - Corbyn hectoring to much. May right to stay away?

Quite possibly, yes. So far I don't feel any of the panel have presented themselves particularly well, although Rudd seems to be keeping out of a lot of the bickering, as does Leanne Wood. Very much a core message from all, but Rudd has made some fair points for example on where money comes from.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite possibly, yes. So far I don't feel any of the panel have presented themselves particularly well, although Rudd seems to be keeping out of a lot of the bickering, as does Leanne Wood. Very much a core message from all, but Rudd has made some fair points for example on where money comes from.

She is taking enough punches and doesn't need to walk onto more!

 

[EM2]

Nothing that Amber Rudd has said has gained even a smattering of applause.

 

[Howardh]

absolute chaos - moderator cant keep control - people shouting over each other - Corbyn hectoring to much. May right to stay away?

Seven's too many. Should be Corbyn v May, there isn't another party near them in seats; but that makes us look American - but we have to draw a line.

 

[HainultLoop]

Nothing that Amber Rudd has said has gained even a smattering of applause.

And rightly so! She's not answering any questions!