Decaying trains at Crewe

[trainophile]

I'm sure this has already been covered but as I haven't seen anything recently I hope it's okay to ask again.

On the approach to Crewe heading north there are several seemingly rusting away or semi-burnt out units, which look like at one time they were dining coaches and high class trains. We don't get near enough to see what Class they are, and to my uneducated eye I couldn't even hazard a guess.

Any idea what the eventual intention is for these poor sad carriages? They are a bit of a blot on the landscape at present, and a magnet for graffiti.

 

[najaB]

On the approach to Crewe heading north there are several seemingly rusting away or semi-burnt out units...

Is this on the left or right hand side of the train in direction of travel?

 

[trainophile]

Is this on the left or right hand side of the train in direction of travel?

Left side when going north, there's quite a long expanse of them just before the station proper.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They're Mk 1 and Mk 2 carriages, not units. On most of them the numbers are no longer visible, so if anyone has a list that would be useful for a fair few people on here.

I have some photos of some of them which may help, but before I can post them I'll have to edit them down a bit as the forum has a 2Mb size limit and mine are about 2.5Mb when they come out of the camera.

 

[trainophile]

Sorry - I used the term "units" generically. I take it there's a big difference between a unit and a carriage!

 

[yorkie]

Sorry - I used the term "units" generically. I take it there's a big difference between a unit and a carriage!

A diesel/electric multiple unit would generally consist of passenger-carrying carriages that have within them all the necessary components to provide traction (ie, no locomotive required).

This is as opposed to trailer carriages that are typically hauled/propelled by a locomotive.

 

[trainophile]

Thank you yorkie. I will try to get it right in future!

 

[duesselmartin]

Is the APT still there and what is its condition? Any future plans for it?

 

[najaB]

Is the APT still there and what is its condition? Any future plans for it?

The APT is north of Crewe, the carriages the OP are taking about are south of the station.

 

[axlecounter]

They're Mk 1 and Mk 2 carriages, not units. On most of them the numbers are no longer visible, so if anyone has a list that would be useful for a fair few people on here.

I have some photos of some of them which may help, but before I can post them I'll have to edit them down a bit as the forum has a 2Mb size limit and mine are about 2.5Mb when they come out of the camera.

Also, editing out the graffiti may help.

 

[yorkie]

.... but before I can post them I'll have to edit them down a bit as the forum has a 2Mb size limit and mine are about 2.5Mb when they come out of the camera.

This can be done in just a few seconds using a website such as Postimage; choose an appropriate size and you can upload it there. Then no need to attach here; just post a hyperlink.

 

[TimboM]

Is the APT still there and what is its condition? Any future plans for it?

It's a (static) exhibit at the Crewe Heritage Centre - looks in decent enough nick. I'd be (very) surprised if there any plans to get it on the rails again.

 

[HLE]

Surely wouldn't cost that much? Compared to something like flying scotsman's overhaul anyway

 

[TimboM]

I'm pretty sure what you can see "belongs" to Locomotive Storage Ltd. Doesn't give details of the rolling stock and it comes with the usual wiki caution, but the history and current use of the site is covered here... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crewe_Diesel_TMD

...and here's a glimpse of some of the stock currently there, although wasn't the main attraction for me https://youtu.be/06KOD98vQ6Y

 

[najaB]

Surely wouldn't cost that much? Compared to something like flying scotsman's overhaul anyway

It might actually cost more than the Flying Scotsman. The technology involved in a steam engine is well understood and the parts are relatively easily made in a well-equipped metal workshop. The APT probably used electronic components that haven't been made in 30 years and which would be very hard to reproduce in the small quantities required.

 

[TimboM]

Surely wouldn't cost that much? Compared to something like flying scotsman's overhaul anyway

As a prototype and with all other ones long ago scrapped (no spares) I suspect it'd be far harder/more costly than you might expect.

And it'd struggle to recoup that in railtour revenue etc. Whilst popular with enthusiasts, the APT doesn't really have the same affection in the wider public pysche that would enable the sort of millions to be raised as was for the FS. Anyway, one for a different thread...

 

[TimboM]

The APT probably used electronic components that haven't been made in 30 years and which would be very hard to reproduce in the small quantities required.

As a prototype / experimental unit, some of the components are likely to be unique/bespoke and even getting hold of drawings/specs may be a challenge - let alone re-making them. A/C Loco Group have been finding this with their restoration of 89001.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I think they have recently managed to get the tilt system to function again on one of the driving cars for occasional demonstrations, only whilst static of course!

A couple of shots I took not so long ago...

 

[47513 Severn]

The APT-P has its own Facebook page which is regularly updated with the restoration progress.
https://en-gb.facebook.com/AptPUkClass370/
I have to agree with others that getting it running again would be almost impossible. The increasing complexity of 'modern' traction means this is going to a growing problem for preservation groups. Sixties electronics is crude and relatively simple. Seventies and eighties stuff is simultaneously complex and obsolete.

I'm curious as to the AC Group's intentions with 89001. Attempting to return it to mainline use would seem an enormously risky gamble both in terms of getting it there and keeping it subsequently viable. They seem to acknowledge that it is an unlikely prospect but why then make such fundamental (and expensive) changes as they are doing to update some of the electronics?

 

[CosherB]

They're Mk 1 and Mk 2 carriages, not units. On most of them the numbers are no longer visible, so if anyone has a list that would be useful for a fair few people on here.

I have some photos of some of them which may help, but before I can post them I'll have to edit them down a bit as the forum has a 2Mb size limit and mine are about 2.5Mb when they come out of the camera.

Have all of the Riviera Mk1s now moved to Eastleigh?

 

[najaB]

They seem to acknowledge that it is an unlikely prospect but why then make such fundamental (and expensive) changes as they are doing to update some of the electronics?

Everyone needs a dream...

 

[Cowley]

Everyone needs a dream...

But can end up with a nightmare... .

 

[All Line Rover]

Why is the APT being discussed when this has nothing to do with the OP's question?

 

[najaB]

Why is the APT being discussed when this has nothing to do with the OP's question?

Because...

Is the APT still there and what is its condition? Any future plans for it?

...threads sometimes drift a little.

 

[6Gman]

Because...
...threads sometimes drift a little.

A little?

Sometimes?

 

[TimboM]

Why is the APT being discussed when this has nothing to do with the OP's question?

...threads sometimes drift a little.

There's a (loose) argument that the ATP fits within the "decaying trains at Crewe" description of the thread

 

[TrainfanBen]

On yet another tangent;
Are there any other places to see mothballed stock?


Sorry if anybody feels tilted by me going off topic

 

[najaB]

On yet another tangent;
Are there any other places to see mothballed stock?

If you can get access, WCRC at Carnforth and/or Long Marston spring to mind (though Wikipedia says that the latter is soon to be redeveloped).

 

[HLE]

The APT-P has its own Facebook page which is regularly updated with the restoration progress.
https://en-gb.facebook.com/AptPUkClass370/
I have to agree with others that getting it running again would be almost impossible. The increasing complexity of 'modern' traction means this is going to a growing problem for preservation groups. Sixties electronics is crude and relatively simple. Seventies and eighties stuff is simultaneously complex and obsolete.

I'm curious as to the AC Group's intentions with 89001. Attempting to return it to mainline use would seem an enormously risky gamble both in terms of getting it there and keeping it subsequently viable. They seem to acknowledge that it is an unlikely prospect but why then make such fundamental (and expensive) changes as they are doing to update some of the electronics?

Looks to be a one man effort at least on the face of it.

I'd love to see that train back on the mainline - or even turning a wheel again under its own power.

Anyone know it's current internal condition?

 

[Cowley]

I read on here that there's some stock dumped at Hellifield too. Is that correct?
Daring to stray back on topic , the video clip with the GBRF locos on it show some chocolate and cream mk1s but they look to be in fairly good nick. Are those the ones we're talking about?