2015-16 Estimates of station usage published

[Kite159]

Big falls from London there, which I'm surprised about. Is it just strikes & engineering work or is there bigger economic factors at play here?

Can't really understand why London Overground fell 6% in one quarter? Same with TfL rail?

London Overground can be explained with the Goblin being closed.

TfL rail, probably all that weekend engineering works has hit passenger numbers

 

[Trackman]

How many of those passengers are changing at Lewisham for easy access to the DLR?

Yes, It's the interchange figures that have shot it up.
It's at no.10 in the interchange charts, only just behind Kings Cross and Euston.

 

[A Challenge]

14,742 entry/exits at Pevensey Bay.

I suppose my annual season ticket from there to Pevensey and Westham contributes to that, although I've not been there since 1974?

Why do you still have it?

 

[Hadders]

Why do you still have it?

Cheapest Gold Card I would've thought.

 

[mrmartin]

London Overground can be explained with the Goblin being closed.

TfL rail, probably all that weekend engineering works has hit passenger numbers

Goblin is pretty small fry compared to the rest of the LO network. I'd be really surprised if 3tph 2cars shutting could make such a big dent considering the NLL, ELL, Watford lines, new lines out of liverpool street, etc. Doesn't seem to add up.

 

[jimbo99]

Cheapest Gold Card I would've thought.

Correct.

14,742 is roughly 30 returns a day.

When I purchased my season ticket at East Croydon, the lady that served me was bemused by the whole thing. A woman in the background chirped up that I was the "second one this week" asking for a Pevensey Bay/Pevensey'n'Westham season. That's 2 out of the 30!

So I wondered how much of the 14,742 is accounted for by people with seasons tickets when in fact they never go there.

 

[Starmill]

Correct.

14,742 is roughly 30 returns a day.

When I purchased my season ticket at East Croydon, the lady that served me was bemused by the whole thing. A woman in the background chirped up that I was the "second one this week" asking for a Pevensey Bay/Pevensey'n'Westham season. That's 2 out of the 30!

So I wondered how much of the 14,742 is accounted for by people with seasons tickets when in fact they never go there.

Lapworth - Hatton is actually slightly cheaper than Pevensey Bay - Pevensey & Westham. £160 a year rather than £164.

The part-time season ticket between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central is only £140. It was thought that this might not qualify for a Gold Card, but it would seem that latest information is that it does.

I bought a DaySave from Pevensey Bay not long ago - and I used it from there too. I also know someone who bought a return to it. So at least a very small part of the usage is from genuine customers It even has a ticket vending machine now.

 

[Starmill]

Goblin is pretty small fry compared to the rest of the LO network. I'd be really surprised if 3tph 2cars shutting could make such a big dent considering the NLL, ELL, Watford lines, new lines out of liverpool street, etc. Doesn't seem to add up.

It is 4 trains an hour, and they are notoriously overcrowded. However yes, I do take your meaning.

 

[ScotGG]

Southeastern's London terminals being close on many weekends wont have helped their numbers, plus Crossrail work closing the Greenwich line for many weekends the past couple of years.

 

[WatcherZero]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/quarterly-bus-statistics-october-to-december-2016

This is interesting, in the last quarter bus usage in London fell three times faster than the rest of the country, this is a complete reversal of the long term divergant trend, and when you combine it with the falling rail passengers too you wonder where they are going?

 

[yorksrob]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/quarterly-bus-statistics-october-to-december-2016

This is interesting, in the last quarter bus usage in London fell three times faster than the rest of the country, this is a complete reversal of the long term divergant trend, and when you combine it with the falling rail passengers too you wonder where they are going?

Perhaps bus journeys are more vulnerable to switching to foot/bycicle transport. This might be particularly the case if road congestion is increasing again.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Latest quarterly rail usage stats are now out; 2016-17 Q2

Headline figures
Regional Passenger journeys +3.5%, Long Distance +3.5%, London and South East -0.5%
Regional Passenger km +2.4%, Long Distance +2.9%, London and South East +0.7%
Regional revenue +3.1%, Long Distance +2.2%, London and South East +0.5%


http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/23376/passenger-rail-usage-2016-17-q2.pdf

Should be noted that due to 2017 not being a leap year (whereas 2016 was) there was around a 1.1% decrease in the number of days in this quarter and a corresponding decrease in the journeys/km travelled

 

[WatcherZero]

You mean one less day in Q4 not Q2.

 

[absolutelymilk]

You mean one less day in Q4 not Q2.

Yes, I linked to the wrong post accidentally.

 

[IslandDweller]

Re bus usage in London. Average speed in central London has gone down again, with a very adverse affect on bus punctuality. I think that's what's prompted a lot of people to use buses less frequently - it certainly has for me.

 

[mrmartin]

If that's the case though, surely some of these people would be switching to rail? I can't understand these falls without some greater economic context - LO and TfL rail were growing like crazy before.

 

[plcd1]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/quarterly-bus-statistics-october-to-december-2016

This is interesting, in the last quarter bus usage in London fell three times faster than the rest of the country, this is a complete reversal of the long term divergant trend, and when you combine it with the falling rail passengers too you wonder where they are going?

I maintain a spreadsheet with TfL's bus route patronage info. The falls in usage are catatrophic on some routes. Various possible reasons.

1. Severe disruption in Central London because of road works.
2. Big increase in private hire vehicles and delivery vans causing traffic congestion.
3. Mass move to impose 20 mph speed limits in Inner London boroughs has slowed buses down.
4. Cycle infrastructure provision has caused modal shift.
5. Cycle infrastructure provision has caused a loss of bus priority thus slowing buses down.
6. Improvements to the tube and Overground and addition of long standing routes like West Anglia / Shenfield lines to tube map have made people realise you can take trains instead of buses.
7. TfL and bus operators have taken a risk averse view on running times to avoid excessive contract penalties. This means buses are overtaken by arthritic snails because they have to run so slowly or wait for time to keep to time when there are no road works or congestion. Why take a bus when even people with low walking speeds can move faster?
8. The rise of Uber and similar services has shifted demand. Night bus services have been badly hit by this.

In short it is a ridiculous mess and it's why we are seeing frequency and route cuts on an increasing scale being pushed through week by week.

 

[plcd1]

If that's the case though, surely some of these people would be switching to rail? I can't understand these falls without some greater economic context - LO and TfL rail were growing like crazy before.

I think the economic context is there but simply not being publicised by politicians. I think the job market is changing and jobs are beginning to go from London and the South East. The "B" word is no doubt behind some of it but wider sentiment is not good and you can't retail spend your way out of trouble when prices of essentials are rising. All we need is a couple of interest rate rises and some post election scares about the "B" word and the rot will fully set in. Still a majority voted for it so we just have to "enjoy" it.

It is also worth bearing in mind that the TfL Rail and Overground routes have seen a fair volume of works at weekends and not just the GOBLIN closure. The NLL has been affected by works at Hackney Wick and Highbury for many weeks. TfL rail has been affected by Crossrail works for months.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Cheapest Gold Card I would've thought.

In the good old days of the Annual Season Ticket Holders Railcard, like may others, I used to buy an annual season ticket from Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly for £36 and add on the annual railcard for £5. It used to save me about £200 a year.

Before that there was a short-lived promotion called the Voyager card in the 1980s which anybody could buy and which gave discounts similar to the railcards we have today. But it was only publicized in the Stoke-on-Trent area.

On one memorable occasion, I tried to use it to buy a CDR from Widnes to Sheffield. The ticket office was staffed but the man on duty had never heard of the Voyager card and was unable to issue me with the correct ticket on his rickety wind up machine. APTIS machines had yet to be introduced.

I then had all sorts of agro from the conductor as I had not bought a ticket having had the opportunity to do so. He tried to trick me barrister-style into saying "I refuse to pay my fare" when I was merely trying to pay the correct fare. Further arguments ensued with the chap on the barrier at Sheffield who said he understood my predicament but had to support his colleague. It totally spoiled my day and upset my future wife. I can't even remember whether Bramley beat Sheffield Eagles or not.

Lengthy correspondence then ensued with various levels of BR management and the RUCC. But not one of them could tell me the correct procedure for buying a CDR from Widnes to Sheffield with a Voyager card.

That experience led me to become more active as a rail campaigner.

 

[yorksrob]

In the good old days of the Annual Season Ticket Holders Railcard, like may others, I used to buy an annual season ticket from Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly for £36 and add on the annual railcard for £5. It used to save me about £200 a year.

If only that scheme was still around today. Needless to say we'll be waiting until Hell freezes over for such a product to appear again.

 

[Abpj17]

I maintain a spreadsheet with TfL's bus route patronage info. The falls in usage are catatrophic on some routes. Various possible reasons.

1. Severe disruption in Central London because of road works.
2. Big increase in private hire vehicles and delivery vans causing traffic congestion.
3. Mass move to impose 20 mph speed limits in Inner London boroughs has slowed buses down.
4. Cycle infrastructure provision has caused modal shift.
5. Cycle infrastructure provision has caused a loss of bus priority thus slowing buses down.
6. Improvements to the tube and Overground and addition of long standing routes like West Anglia / Shenfield lines to tube map have made people realise you can take trains instead of buses.
7. TfL and bus operators have taken a risk averse view on running times to avoid excessive contract penalties. This means buses are overtaken by arthritic snails because they have to run so slowly or wait for time to keep to time when there are no road works or congestion. Why take a bus when even people with low walking speeds can move faster?
8. The rise of Uber and similar services has shifted demand. Night bus services have been badly hit by this.

In short it is a ridiculous mess and it's why we are seeing frequency and route cuts on an increasing scale being pushed through week by week.

Plus the Night tube and main rail strikes.

Can you share the spreadsheet - would be fascinating to see. I'd expect dramatic change in the next year as well. The Crossrail roadworks will gradually start to ease up e.g. Moorgate, Tottenham Court Road, and Liverpool Street have all been hampered. In the centre, the pedestrianised Bank Junction too - early signs are that while TfL had earlier cut a number of routes from going through the Junction...for those that the remain the journeys have been quicker (at least on the West - East routes I've been on so far).