Lines which perished, but their preservation wishable-for

[Helvellyn]

I agree with yorksrob and Calthrop - the Meon Valley Line would have been a great candidate in an alternative history. But I'm going to add two caveats to the alternative history: -

• Alton - Winchester remained open, so Mid-Hants never existed (but we have the Meon Valley Railway).
• The bypass loop for the Fareham Tunnels remained open (it closed 1974), so this was used by BR whilst the Fareham Tunnels route was Meon Valley Railway.

You could then have a 22.5 mile preserved railway, that had been built to mainline standards, with connections to the National network at both ends (Alton and Fareham), running through some very picturesque countryside.

 

[Cowley]

I agree with yorksrob and Calthrop - the Meon Valley Line would have been a great candidate in an alternative history. But I'm going to add two caveats to the alternative history: -

• Alton - Winchester remained open, so Mid-Hants never existed (but we have the Meon Valley Railway).
• The bypass loop for the Fareham Tunnels remained open (it closed 1974), so this was used by BR whilst the Fareham Tunnels route was Meon Valley Railway.

You could then have a 22.5 mile preserved railway, that had been built to mainline standards, with connections to the National network at both ends (Alton and Fareham), running through some very picturesque countryside.

Even though I've volunteered on the Mid Hants in the past and some people I know would consider it sacrilege I do sort of agree with this.
They'd have been able to do some excellent war on the line events on the Meon Valley too. .
Like you say though - only if the route across 'The Alps' had been retained as part of the network.

 

[Calthrop]

[Interesting material, snipped]

Some suggestions which might not have suffered from this problem and could have attracted volunteers and traffic:

Hayling Island
Weston, Clevedon and Portishead
Leominster to Kington

All ideas come up with, are interesting and welcome; but the OP's basic premise was about lines which became available for preservation -- including then recently-closed ones -- around 1960 or after. Am not meaning to sound "snarky": but the WC&P -- wow ! Abandoned 1940, and lifted shortly after: I seem to recall hearing that in 1940 we in Britain had a few rather urgent worries to contend with, which would have involved railway preservation taking a back seat. Truly, not meant nastily -- that line, in whole or in part, would have made a grand potential preservation project: but, a matter of less-than-propitious timing (I hadn't been thinking "alternative history" to the point of there having been no Second World War !).

 

[DerekC]

All ideas come up with, are interesting and welcome; but the OP's basic premise was about lines which became available for preservation -- including then recently-closed ones -- around 1960 or after. Am not meaning to sound "snarky": but the WC&P -- wow ! Abandoned 1940, and lifted shortly after: I seem to recall hearing that in 1940 we in Britain had a few rather urgent worries to contend with, which would have involved railway preservation taking a back seat. Truly, not meant nastily -- that line, in whole or in part, would have made a grand potential preservation project: but, a matter of less-than-propitious timing (I hadn't been thinking "alternative history" to the point of there having been no Second World War !).

Well, I was slightly tongue in cheek on the WC&P, although alternative history is a tricky place! And if I was being pedantic (which of course I wouldn't be) I could point out that the Meon Valley (most of it) closed in 1955 so doesn't come into your time frame either.

PS - but I do like the idea of Meon Valley as a preservation project with Alton-Winchester remaining open - and I had thought of the idea of keeping the Fareham tunnels bypass loop open, as suggested by Helvellyn.

PPS How about Hayling Island?

 

[Cowley]

PPS How about Hayling Island?

I knew a few people who had been involved with trying to save part of the Hayling Island branch but unfortunately it was not to be. It would have made a special preserved railway though (although some other railways in the area may have lost out stock wise if this had happened).
In the end they moved on to be part of the group that got the Mid Hants off the ground at the beginning.

 

[Calthrop]

Well, I was slightly tongue in cheek on the WC&P, although alternative history is a tricky place! And if I was being pedantic (which of course I wouldn't be) I could point out that the Meon Valley (most of it) closed in 1955 so doesn't come into your time frame either.

PS - but I do like the idea of Meon Valley as a preservation project with Alton-Winchester remaining open - and I had thought of the idea of keeping the Fareham tunnels bypass loop open, as suggested by Helvellyn.

PPS How about Hayling Island?

Sorry -- I shouldn't have mocked (only gently, I hope) -- but I fear it was irresistible ! I mentioned in an earlier post that the Meon Valley as a preserved route has theoretically, great appeal; but that doubt possibly cast on it, because of the 1955 closure date. Though -- the 1955 closure was to passengers: did the whole line stay open for freight, later than that? -- I'm totally uninformed on this point. (Track still down or not, "when it came time to preserve", apt to be a crucial factor, or at least was, early on.)

I know that well into the 1960s, track remained in situ on the southern end of the Meon Valley line as far as Droxford -- this bit initially retained for freight, for sure -- and this section was played-around on for a considerable time by people with an interest in tram / light-rail type passenger vehicles and experimenting therewith.

I concur with you and Cowley: that the Hayling Island branch would have been a fine preservation undertaking, but the stars didn't align that way.

While we're in this part of the world: a thought which has just occurred: how about the Botley -- Bishop's Waltham branch as a preservation possibility? A nice brief (4 / 5 miles), transport-sense-making branch -- seems from the map to diverge straight off north-east from Botley station, no running-powers issues -- passenger service withdrawn by the SR in 1933, but retained for freight I think, into the early 60s: a good deal of restoration work necessary on the terminal station -- however, maybe a nice, short-and-modest worthwhile preservation project? With possible visitor-overspill from the splendid Marwell zoo park, a few miles away...

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I was slightly tongue in cheek on the WC&P, although alternative history is a tricky place! And if I was being pedantic (which of course I wouldn't be) I could point out that the Meon Valley (most of it) closed in 1955 so doesn't come into your time frame either.

Although as it happens, the most Northerly section, from Alton to Farringdon, didn't close to goods until 1968, so could well have been used as a launch pad to further reopening within the timeframe mentioned.

 

[DerekC]

Sorry -- I shouldn't have mocked (only gently, I hope) -- but I fear it was irresistible ! I mentioned in an earlier post that the Meon Valley as a preserved route has theoretically, great appeal; but that doubt possibly cast on it, because of the 1955 closure date. Though -- the 1955 closure was to passengers: did the whole line stay open for freight, later than that? -- I'm totally uninformed on this point. (Track still down or not, "when it came time to preserve", apt to be a crucial factor, or at least was, early on.)

I know that well into the 1960s, track remained in situ on the southern end of the Meon Valley line as far as Droxford -- this bit initially retained for freight, for sure -- and this section was played-around on for a considerable time by people with an interest in tram / light-rail type passenger vehicles and experimenting therewith.

I concur with you and Cowley: that the Hayling Island branch would have been a fine preservation undertaking, but the stars didn't align that way.

While we're in this part of the world: a thought which has just occurred: how about the Botley -- Bishop's Waltham branch as a preservation possibility? A nice brief (4 / 5 miles), transport-sense-making branch -- seems from the map to diverge straight off north-east from Botley station, no running-powers issues -- passenger service withdrawn by the SR in 1933, but retained for freight I think, into the early 60s: a good deal of restoration work necessary on the terminal station -- however, maybe a nice, short-and-modest worthwhile preservation project? With possible visitor-overspill from the splendid Marwell zoo park, a few miles away...

I have the rather splendid 3-volume publication by Kevin Robertson on the Meon Valley, which includes some very good photographs of construction and of the "Pacerailer" phase - see below. According to this the closing dates were:

5th February 1955 -passenger services ceased and complete closure between Farringdon and Droxford.
30th April 1962 - end of freight services, Knowle Junction to Droxford
5th August 1968 - complete closure Butts Junction to Farringdon

Between 1962 and 1970 Knowle Junction to Droxford was used by Charles Ashby for testing "Pacerailer" - a railcar based on bus technology and also (between 1968 and 1970) by the Southern Locomotive Preservation Group for storage of stock and locomotiives at Droxford. (BR actually applied for and received a Light Railway Order for operation of the "Pacerailer").

As regards the Bishops Waltham branch - excellent project. The alternative history would have to include some adjustments to the roundabout built on or very close to the BW station site. I suspect that the local council was keen on closure precisely because of the opportunity to remodel the road as soon as the level crossing and station went. The rest of the route is pretty clear.

 

[Waldgrun]

With regards to the Bishops Waltham branch, I think you will find that in the mid to late 1960's the Hampshire Narrow Gauge society had plans to turn the line into a 2 foot gauge line, I recall a article in the "Hampshire County Press",perhaps someone else could enlighten more?

 

[Calthrop]

I have the rather splendid 3-volume publication by Kevin Robertson on the Meon Valley, which includes some very good photographs of construction and of the "Pacerailer" phase - see below. According to this the closing dates were:

5th February 1955 -passenger services ceased and complete closure between Farringdon and Droxford.
30th April 1962 - end of freight services, Knowle Junction to Droxford
5th August 1968 - complete closure Butts Junction to Farringdon

Between 1962 and 1970 Knowle Junction to Droxford was used by Charles Ashby for testing "Pacerailer" - a railcar based on bus technology and also (between 1968 and 1970) by the Southern Locomotive Preservation Group for storage of stock and locomotiives at Droxford. (BR actually applied for and received a Light Railway Order for operation of the "Pacerailer").

Thanks for all gen. So Farringdon -- Droxford would have been dismantled in the late 50s, one takes it (I remember seeing pictures of demolition of the big viaduct at West Meon, though forget date of same) -- accordingly making putative line reinstatement by preservationists, harder.

As regards the Bishops Waltham branch - excellent project. The alternative history would have to include some adjustments to the roundabout built on or very close to the BW station site. I suspect that the local council was keen on closure precisely because of the opportunity to remodel the road as soon as the level crossing and station went. The rest of the route is pretty clear.

Road improvements / new construction, especially in towns, have been maybe the biggest single factor tending to screw things up for potential (and on occasion, actual existing) preserved lines. I feel that if any of Britain's -- never numerous -- rural roadside steam tramways had been featured in any preservation activity; such would have been particularly badly up against it for that reason -- and, one would reckon, would also face great problems re modern safety-type concerns. The only one which I can think of which lasted (for freight only) into the era which we're looking at, was the Wisbech & Upwell, closed 1966: it would seem nobody was interested in -- or in a position to try -- the saving of that one. I don't know how much of the W&U's course is now obliterated, and how much is still, essentially, there alongside the road.

 

[DerekC]

Thanks for all gen. So Farringdon -- Droxford would have been dismantled in the late 50s, one takes it (I remember seeing pictures of demolition of the big viaduct at West Meon, though forget date of same) -- accordingly making putative line reinstatement by preservationists, harder..

During late 1955 and 1956 it seems, with the West Meon viaduct not complete until 1957. Local opinion quoted in Keith Robertson's book was that the extent of corrosion would have forced closure anyway,

Road improvements / new construction, especially in towns, have been maybe the biggest single factor tending to screw things up for potential (and on occasion, actual existing) preserved lines. I feel that if any of Britain's -- never numerous -- rural roadside steam tramways had been featured in any preservation activity; such would have been particularly badly up against it for that reason -- and, one would reckon, would also face great problems re modern safety-type concerns. The only one which I can think of which lasted (for freight only) into the era which we're looking at, was the Wisbech & Upwell, closed 1966: it would seem nobody was interested in -- or in a position to try -- the saving of that one. I don't know how much of the W&U's course is now obliterated, and how much is still, essentially, there alongside the road.

Indeed - there are lots of examples. I have always thought that the main blame to be attached to the DfT of those days was not so much in closing uneconomic lines as in failing to protect the routes of those which might one day be needed again. As regards the W&U, I don't know the area but a quick scan on Railmaps with the satellite image background suggests that there are rather a lot of new(ish) houses which wouldn't want a tramway in their front gardens, quite apart from some construction on the route and its use for road straightening and widening in some places. A new roadside tramway might be easier. Maybe a project for a zoo or adventure park? Beamish has an electric tramway - why not a steam one somewhere? Of course Weymouth Harbour is a ready made candidate but there has been a lengthy thread on that elsewhere, I think.

 

[Cowley]

I'd be happy to have a tramway in my front garden.
Just saying...

 

[steevp]

I'd be happy to have a tramway in my front garden.
Just saying...

Not so much a NIMBY, more of a YPIMFY (yes please in my front yard)

 

[Calthrop]

I'd be happy to have a tramway in my front garden.
Just saying...

Not so much a NIMBY, more of a YPIMFY (yes please in my front yard)

That'd make a fine Welsh word...

All brings to mind part of the sad little poem on the abandonment at the end of 1941, of Northern Ireland's roadside Clogher Valley Railway:

She ran through back gardens and down the main street,
And frightened the horses she happened to meet;
Now she's all gone for scrap, for to build up our fleet...

 

[DerekC]

The discussion on tramways prompts another alternative history suggestion - the Swansea and Mumbles.

PS - I like the Clogher Valley Rhyme. The only relevant one I know is the West Clare's "Are ye right there Michael?"

 

[Calthrop]

The discussion on tramways prompts another alternative history suggestion - the Swansea and Mumbles.

Would have been lovely if it had worked out that some preservation outfit was in a position to take over -- and had -- the S & M in 1960. But had that come to pass -- I can't help seeing great problems at best, involving it and the local road system, over the 57 years between then and now.

PS - I like the Clogher Valley Rhyme. The only relevant one I know is the West Clare's "Are ye right there Michael?"

The Irish narrow gauge gave a lot of inspiration to local poets and balladeers -- more than anything else, on the "it was fun, but it's gone" theme. A favourite of mine is the one about the Listowel and Ballybunnion -- an excerpt:

Many were the failings afflicting the Monorail --
Slow was her progress, at ten miles per hour:
Folk in a hurry declined for to board her,
For they said that their donkeys possessed far more power...

 

[Calthrop]

Further thoughts – somewhat “on the wild side” – on this thread’s general theme. Blame my fondness for Colonel Stephens’s standard-gauge light railways; and my recent receiving of the Colonel Stephens Society’s quarterly magazine. As well as the recently-discussed Swansea & Mumbles; Britain had another standard-gauge oddity with the same initials – Stephens’s Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Railway. The above Society’s magazine (called The Colonel – what else?) includes in its latest issue, a brief article about said Col.’s S & M, in the 1930s.

Survival-wise, the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire was luckier than a couple of Stephens’s lines, in being taken over in its then freight-only moribund state, by the Army in 1940 (plans, which were implemented, for big military installations / ammunition depots in the remote countryside – unlikely for targeting by enemy air action – served by the line). The S & M (main line Shrewsbury [Abbey] – Llanymynech, plus the branch Kinnerley – Criggion) served the Army not only until 1945; but remained in Army use (plus “civilian” freight traffic) until abandonment in 1960.

Given the approximate date parameters suggested in my OP: it has occurred to me, what fun it might have been for a preservation society to have been able to inherit the S & M from the Army. My criterion of “going somewhere meaningful”: line’s eastern end, Shrewsbury (Abbey) station near the heart of Shrewsbury city – with the line running essentially north-westward therefrom, to serve the local “outback” (no offence intended), linking same to the county town. Physical connection with the national network at Meole Brace, a little way west of Shrewsbury on the Welshpool line.

Various possibilities, as regards western terminus under preservation. Kinnerley Junction, the line’s nerve-centre, thirteen and a half miles from Shrewsbury; and the Kinnerley – Criggion branch, six or seven miles long. The line as a preservation venture: perhaps, Shrewsbury – Kinnerley – Criggion: roughly twenty miles; as preserved lines go, long but not unheard-of. South Shropshire is hilly and beautiful; the county’s more northerly parts, as between Shrewsbury and Kinnerley, are bucolically pleasant, but low-lying and unexciting. The far end of the Criggion branch gets into agreeably hilly country – a trippers-pleasing end to the run?

Or – some five miles on along the main line: Kinnerley – Llanymynech; the latter station was still on passenger routes in 1960: but one would not, even then, have needed to be Nostradamus; to envisage a likelihood in some not far distant time, of the closure of such highly-rural and routeing-avoidable sections. Remote and far-out possibilities perhaps, concerning the Nantmawr ballast quarry on the one-time complex of lines west of Llanymynech (quarry rail-served “in real life”, long after 1964’s passenger closures) and cutting of deals between British Railways and the preserved line, re serving of same – plus S & M passenger to Llanymynech, the latter still kind-of counting as “somewhere”: rather a feeling, though, that “this way, madness lies”. At all events – I’ve always liked the S & M, and would have loved to see it worthwhile-ly preserved.

 

[DerekC]

Good idea - very plausible. The most likely scenario is (initially at least) a short line operation based at Kinnerley, I would think. Shrewsbury Abbey would have been very nice, but less likely to have survived its current fate under Asda's car park. Incidentally there was a main line connection at the Shrewsbury end as well, although whether this survived into the 1960s I don't know.

 

[Calthrop]

Good idea - very plausible. The most likely scenario is (initially at least) a short line operation based at Kinnerley, I would think. Shrewsbury Abbey would have been very nice, but less likely to have survived its current fate under Asda's car park. Incidentally there was a main line connection at the Shrewsbury end as well, although whether this survived into the 1960s I don't know.

I see in the mentioned article in the Col. Stephens Soc.’s journal, that the physical link near Shrewsbury (Abbey) station, to the LMS / GW, was still active in the 1930s. The book which I have, about the S & M under Army control for its last two decades, seems not to mention the above link in the city: all contact / exchange with the wider network, is told of in the context of the Meole Brace / Hookagate junction facilities.

One could reflect that in the light of how hopeless on the whole, once road motor transport took off, Col. S.’s standard-gauge light railways were – especially passenger-wise: the survival of much of them, as long as it did survive (with two, in varying states of whole and / or part, still with us today), was pretty remarkable. Another item in the latest C.S. Soc. journal, as above: mentions a “might-have-been” which if it had been, could have had yet another of the Colonel’s lines with us still in 2017, though in transformed shape.

In the early 1920s, Captain John Howey and his colleague Count Louis Zborowski were seeking for a venue for their ideal 15in. gauge railway: assorted possibilities – for both taking-over and narrowing existing lines; and totally new construction – were investigated. In this quest, they considered Stephens’s West Sussex Railway (Chichester – Selsey): a scheme which in the end came to nothing – Stephens refused to sell; and, per the Society’s journal, a problem was seen concerning the line’s “six level crossings and their speed restrictions, which would have made main-line type running almost impossible”. (As we know, Howey’s dream ultimately came to fruition in the new-built Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch – which has level crossings in plenty – I can only assume level-crossing- and light-railway-speed-restriction-related, legal niceties and intricacies beyond my ken, by which the Selsey railway was a “no-no”, but the new RH&D was acceptable.) At all events: had things gone in a considerably different way, we might still have the Chichester – Selsey line (abandoned “in real life” in 1935) with us on the 15in. gauge today.

 

[DerekC]

I took a quick look at the S&M's Shrewsbury main line connections on old OS maps and it all looks very complicated. The earliest available (1882, after closure of the PS&NWR) shows the northward connection to the Birmingham line as intact. The embankments of a triangular junction with this track and a second main line connection to the Hereford route are also visible, but with no track. I wonder if this was the original layout of the PS&NWR when it still had aspirations to reach the Potteries and before the Abbey station (which I gather was intended to be temporary) was built. By 1902 (after the attempted reconstruction by the Shropshire Railways) the northward connection is still there and track has been relaid on the Hereford line link, but the tracks to and in Abbey station have been lifted. By 1927 the Abbey station track has been reinstated but both the main line connections have gone.

I wasn't aware of the possible 15in conversion of the West Sussex Railway. That would have been interesting but I can see why it might not have been as attractive as the RH&D site.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

You know, I wish they kept the Aldwych Branch open as a preserved railway. Clearly not very long (at all) but Underground enthusiasts probably couldn't resist a ride on it.

 

[Calthrop]

I took a quick look at the S&M's Shrewsbury main line connections on old OS maps and it all looks very complicated. The earliest available (1882, after closure of the PS&NWR) shows the northward connection to the Birmingham line as intact. The embankments of a triangular junction with this track and a second main line connection to the Hereford route are also visible, but with no track. I wonder if this was the original layout of the PS&NWR when it still had aspirations to reach the Potteries and before the Abbey station (which I gather was intended to be temporary) was built. By 1902 (after the attempted reconstruction by the Shropshire Railways) the northward connection is still there and track has been relaid on the Hereford line link, but the tracks to and in Abbey station have been lifted. By 1927 the Abbey station track has been reinstated but both the main line connections have gone.

I wasn't aware of the possible 15in conversion of the West Sussex Railway. That would have been interesting but I can see why it might not have been as attractive as the RH&D site.

Complicated indeed ! Looking again at the article in the Col, Stephens Society’s journal – relevant part, being a précis of an enthusiast’s account of an S & M journey made by him in the last months of the line’s passenger service before its 1933 withdrawal: on the Shrewsbury-bound run, “Tickets were collected at Meole Brace. Arrival would have been early but extensive shunting of wagons before Abbey station at the junction with the spur to the LMS and GWR meant arrival was 15 minutes late”.

In the light of 1927 maps showing apparently no physical connection near Abbey station any longer, with the main rail network: I wonder whether in the above quote, it’s being recounted – less clearly than would be desirable – that the “junction / spur” “before Abbey station” where the delaying shunting happened; was in fact a long way “before” the terminus, i.e. in the Meole Brace / Hookagate area.

Jowett’s Railway Atlas, purporting to give the situation as on the eve of Grouping, shows in its Shrewsbury-area large-scale detail map, no physical link near Abbey station with the main rail network. This would seem to confirm suggested-above 1920s situation – though I admit to not holding Jowett in immensely high regard, and sometimes feeling dubious as to his accuracy.

A line (not one of Stephens’s) which I have rather on the brain at present, and have posted about in the "Railway History & Nostalgia" forum, is the Bideford, Westward Ho! & Appledore; whose short life ended a hundred years ago, when it was compulsorily closed down, and its motive power and rails requisitioned for the WWI war effort. It has occurred to me to wonder (though I have never come across anything to suggest its happening) whether Howey and Zborowski maybe considered, however briefly, this route as a candidate for their desired 15in, gauge line – presumably as at the early 1920s, the BWH!&A’s trackbed was still there virtually in its entirety. In the light of the information about the West Sussex: it would appear that the same problems would have obtained, concerning the abandoned North Devon line – it was inaugurated under the auspices of the 1896 Light Railways Act, with presumably attendant restrictions; and per the Oakwood Press history of the line, its route included a considerable number of level crossings – well over six. Still – nice to imagine the great men taking thought about it, even if the thought was immediately dismissed !

You know, I wish they kept the Aldwych Branch open as a preserved railway. Clearly not very long (at all) but Underground enthusiasts probably couldn't resist a ride on it.

Interesting thinking-outside-the-box; and there's certainly no shortage of London Underground enthusiasts, to support such a venture with labour and / or with fares paid to travel.

 

[Bill EWS]

I have a number of routes that I would like to see reopened. However, to pin it down to just the one then it would have to be the Ex GNSR branch from Ellon to Boddam.

The branch never really succeeded as the main place on the route that should have made it work, the Hotel & Golf Course at Cruden Bay never took off. Or, at least the Hotel didn't. The golf course is still very successful today. Cruden Bay station and the golf course was linked by an electric tramway.

However, the branch was heavily built with good quality bridges, viaducts and stations and must have looked fantastic when it was open. Local 'pink' granite was used for all the bridges. It would have helped too if the branch terminated at Peterhead. The fishing at Boddam never grew as was However the GNSR never accepted this as it would have meant competing with it's own branch from Peterhead to Maud junction and onto Aberdeen.

Both Cruden Bay and Boddam have expanded somewhat since 1948 when the route finally closed. Passenger services ended in 1932. But what a fine railway it would have been. Even today I would think the branch could be made to work. Again, Peterhead would be the ideal terminal. There are plans for reopening Fraserburgh and Peterhead.

Of course, the issue of having the Peterhead terminal from Maud or a new station in the south to go via Boddam would still showitselfr. Originally the junction for Fraserburgh was to be at Mintlaw. I have heard it said that this could happen again if the line was reopened. This would miss out Bruckley but allow a new station around New Leeds that is closer to a larger population. If Peterhead to Boddam was chosen, the line going from Mintlaw to Fraserburgh would work for that. Because the Peterhead station site has been built over I have heard it mentioned that the new station would be closer to Inverugie! That's two miles from the town center! There must be room for a station closer to the south side of the town, I would have thought.

A similar thought could be given to avoiding Ellon and building a new line southwards from Cruden Bay or possibly from Pitlurg, with a new station at Newburgh. Getting into Aberdeen would still be difficult but surely not impossible with today's technology. Of course, it all comes down to whether it is financially worthwhile. However, while reopenings are a future possibility it is worth thinking about newer possibilities for present day use.

Most railway routes go where they do due to the lay of the land or by landowners refusing their presence on their lands or demanding expensive stations being built for their own use with the costs going to the railway (companies). We may as well have a fresh look as things are today to see what can be done to improve useage in a new line.

 

[Calthrop]

Interesting reading. Will admit that Ellon – Boddam comes high up on the list of lines which I totally never expected to be mentioned in this thread ! You’re writing, though, of stuff which – while virtually anything is achievable, given the will on the part of nations’ decision-makers to achieve it – is way outside the realistic scope of preservation societies.

When first observing north-east Scotland’s railway layout as a kid, in our family’s Bartholomews road atlas (published late 1940s, and including lines which had lost their passenger services but still carried freight at the time of publication): I was struck by the weirdness of the two offshoots diverging from the Dyce – Fraserburgh route at Ellon and Maud, and with coastal termini only three miles from each other. Such oddities are of course, seldom or ever intended by the initiators / promoters of the lines concerned: as you remark, they generally come about through various circumstances which said initiators / promoters would prefer not to be plagued with.

 

[Bill EWS]

Thank you for your comments, Calthrop. It appears that some text was lost for some reason that missed some of my comments out. I have comleted it here...

"However, the branch was heavily built with good quality bridges, viaducts and stations and must have looked fantastic when it was open. Local 'pink' granite was used for all the bridges. It would have helped too if the branch terminated at Peterhead. The fishing at Boddam never grew as expected and a Peterhead link would have made a great difference. However the GNSR never accepted this as it would have meant competing with it's own branch from Peterhead to Maud junction and onto Aberdeen".

My apologies if I was a bit off thread.

 

[Calthrop]

No worries -- it's all of interest ! (Wish I were better acquainted first-hand with the north-east of Scotland.)

 

[DerekC]

My wildest dream would be the South Durham & Lancashire Union/Eden Valley route from Bishop Auckland to Appleby. Steam locomotives over that route must have been great to watch and it is very scenic, with the contrast between the bleakness of Stainmore and the beautiful views of the Eden Valley which open up from around Barras, not to mention the great iron viaducts. However I would be the first to admit that it might be a tad expensive to maintain. Of course there are the Stainmore Railway and Eden Valley preservation schemes already in place, but hopefully this doesn't preclude me from dreaming!

(PS - I wanted to buy Barras station in about 1977 but Mrs C was not in favour!).

 

[Bill EWS]

Calthrop, you may find my railway walks web pages over the the Dyce to Fraserburgh & Peterhead, including the Boddam branch at:

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/keng/kenhtml/Fraserburgh&PeterheadRlwyWalks/DyceFraserburgh&PeterheadWalksSept2015_Index.htm

 

[Cowley]

Calthrop, you may find my railway walks web pages over the the Dyce to Fraserburgh & Peterhead, including the Boddam branch at:

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/keng/kenhtml/Fraserburgh&PeterheadRlwyWalks/DyceFraserburgh&PeterheadWalksSept2015_Index.htm

I've been working my way through it and it's very enjoyable.

 

[Calthrop]

My wildest dream would be the South Durham & Lancashire Union/Eden Valley route from Bishop Auckland to Appleby. Steam locomotives over that route must have been great to watch and it is very scenic, with the contrast between the bleakness of Stainmore and the beautiful views of the Eden Valley which open up from around Barras, not to mention the great iron viaducts. However I would be the first to admit that it might be a tad expensive to maintain. Of course there are the Stainmore Railway and Eden Valley preservation schemes already in place, but hopefully this doesn't preclude me from dreaming!

(PS - I wanted to buy Barras station in about 1977 but Mrs C was not in favour!).

From what little I've seen first-hand of those scenes: must have been magnificent in the days of the railways -- well, scenery magnificent now (and the photographs are "something else"). Mr. Bouch got those viaducts right; before disastrously losing his touch, it seems, where the Tay was concerned !

My own home patch being a good deal further south, and scenically tame in comparison; but dear to me -- if I'd been a billionaire there at the right moment, my support would have gone to the wonderfully quixotic preservation group which in 1959, wished and hoped to take over the just-closed easternmost end of the Midland & Great Northern Joint system, from Yarmouth (Beach) through the Broads area, to North Walsham. Crazily ambitious for a preservation outfit, especially back then; but, if only...

Calthrop, you may find my railway walks web pages over the the Dyce to Fraserburgh & Peterhead, including the Boddam branch at:

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/keng/kenhtml/Fraserburgh&PeterheadRlwyWalks/DyceFraserburgh&PeterheadWalksSept2015_Index.htm

I've been working my way through it and it's very enjoyable.

Bill EWS -- I concur with Cowley -- thanks: marvellous stuff. Will have to betake myself to Buchan !