Conspiracy theories/fake news.

[Cowley]

I've recently been discussing various conspiracy theories with one of the older kids and a couple of things are starting to worry me.
1 - The acceptance of unchecked facts as truth.
2 - The realisation that the younger children are hearing them say: The US government blew up the twin towers, the UK government have had a hand in various terrorist atrocities, they didn't go to the moon in 1969, Elvis isn't dead etc etc (ok I believe the last one ).

It's all a bit tinfoil hat for me and although I think it's right that they question what they see at times I also feel for the younger ones hearing this that it isn't great growing up thinking that our government is prepared to kill us for some kind of hidden dark reason that only a few in the know are party to. To me that must make the world in their eyes an even more dark and scary place than it is already.
I'm finding it difficult to get these points across though when with a few clicks on the internet it's possible for them to dig up all kinds of wacky - yet if you want to believe that kind of thing - plausible theories (again it you are willing to not check any actual facts even remotely properly).
Even this week I've started to hear that "things just don't add up" regarding the bomb in Manchester which I was listening to on the radio as the first reports of it started coming in and it became very clear in my opinion what had happened and what is still happening with the following investigation.

I know conspiracy theories have been around for a long time and I know that sometimes they can even be in some small part true, but I don't believe for instance that any government would be competent enough to pull off such a massive atrocity as the Twin Towers attack without leaving some kind of discoverable trail.
I'd be very interested to hear what others think about this.
Feel free to add your own conspiracy theories if you've got any good ones but don't expect me to believe them unless they involve Elvis.

 

[najaB]

To answer the thread title: no.

 

[yorkie]

Absolutely not; they are spread by people who are perhaps attention seekers, or a bit crazy or simply our enemies.

Kids can be gullable; what age are they?

Show them this website http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/ and see how long it takes for them to realise it's fake.

They should learn at school not to believe everything they read or hear but I think these days there is so much pressure on results in core areas such as literacy and numeracy, important lessons get missed out.

It's very easy for people with agendas to spread fake news these days.

Are they familiar with snopes.com?

 

[najaB]

Show them this website http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/ and see how long it takes for them to realise it's fake.

That's actually quite good. The first section is believably presented, it's only when they start to talk about the reasons why they are endangered that the BS meter starts to go off the scale.

 

[DaleCooper]

https://skeptoid.com/episode_guide.php

This is a good site which debunks conspiracies theories, pseudoscience and other wild claims and shows how to use tools such as Occam's Razor.

 

[Cowley]

Thanks for the replies, I'll have a look later at those sights when I get a bit of time later.
In answer to Yorkies question we've got six between us of ages 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 21.

 

[Greenback]

I deifnitely think that part of education should be learning to think for yourself, challenge what you are told or what you read, and understanding why people spread fake news and put forward conspiracy theories.

 

[DaleCooper]

To save you searching here are some Skeptoid articles on the Moon landings:

Debunking the Moon Truthers, Part 1 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4535
Debunking the Moon Truthers, Part 2 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4536
Debunking the Moon Truthers, Part 3 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4537

...and the Twin Towers:

The Twin Towers: Fire Melting Steel https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4054
World Trade Center 7: The Lies Come Crashing Down https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4085

You'll also find very informative articles on homeopathy, UFOs, psychics, flat earthers, creationism etc.

 

[me123]

I deifnitely think that part of education should be learning to think for yourself, challenge what you are told or what you read, and understanding why people spread fake news and put forward conspiracy theories.

YES!

I find it a little bit concerning that critical appraisal skills were only really taught to me at University, whereas I think there should have been more of an emphasis on it at high school level. (We did have a bit in History and English, but it was pretty basic stuff).

If you teach people facts, they'll come away with percentage of those facts in their head. If you teach people to appraise information, you'll have opened up the world to them.

 

[najaB]

I find it a little bit concerning that critical appraisal skills were only really taught to me at University, whereas I think there should have been more of an emphasis on it at high school level. (We did have a bit in History and English, but it was pretty basic stuff).

When I was in high school (20+ years ago) the Internet basically didn't exist as far as the man on the street was concerned. So most people didn't have mass exposure to unfiltered information until they reached university. Contrast that to today where the firehose is running full-blast from the moment you're old enough to click a mouse or press a touch screen.

So you're right that we need to start helping people develop their BS sensors from much, much earlier in life than we used to. Maybe start with the fact that Humpty Dumpty's oological nature is a myth. It's fake news, go look it up for yourself. Nowhere in the primary source does it say he was an egg.

 

[backontrack]

I definitely think that part of education should be learning to think for yourself, challenge what you are told or what you read, and understanding why people spread fake news and put forward conspiracy theories.

Agreed.

 

[Cowley]

I've altered the title because as NajaB said they obviously don't help. I'm going to spend a bit of time looking through the links people have posted for a bit now.

 

[DaleCooper]

I've altered the title because as NajaB said they obviously don't help. I'm going to spend a bit of time looking through the links people have posted for a bit now.

I think "They" made you alter the title because you were too close to the truth.

 

[GusB]

When I was in high school (20+ years ago) the Internet basically didn't exist as far as the man on the street was concerned. So most people didn't have mass exposure to unfiltered information until they reached university. Contrast that to today where the firehose is running full-blast from the moment you're old enough to click a mouse or press a touch screen.

So you're right that we need to start helping people develop their BS sensors from much, much earlier in life than we used to. Maybe start with the fact that Humpty Dumpty's oological nature is a myth. It's fake news, go look it up for yourself. Nowhere in the primary source does it say he was an egg.

There also the issue that many people think that The Internet = Facebook*
(*insert favourite social media platform as appropriate), and if they're only exposed to stuff shared by their friends and family on those platforms, their world view is going to be very limited. There is a wealth of information out there on the internet, but how many people actually know how to use a search engine properly?

When I was a kid my primary source of information was books. I was never really a great reader of fiction, but I could get lost in the non-fiction section of the library. How many kids these days even have access to libraries? Our local branch was closed a few years ago, and although the main library is 7 miles away it's simply not accessible to many people now.

 

[TheEdge]

I for one think schools should concentrate on teaching the obvious difference between clouds and chemtrails.

THINKSKK 4 URSeLVEs SheepL£!!!!!!11!11111!!!!one!!11!!!

 

[backontrack]

Absolutely not; they are spread by people who are perhaps attention seekers, or a bit crazy or simply our enemies.

That's what they want you to think.

 

[Cowley]

I think "They" made you alter the title because you were too close to the truth.

They won't get to me because of my tinfoil lampshades hopefully.

 

[Howardh]

It's interesting because there are two aspects r/e the papers.
Those of a certain age who don't use the web much, or at all, could only take the one newspaper and take as gospel what's written in it, as that's all they have ever done.
On the other hand, there are todays savvy web users who will read an article, read the topic somewhere else, get on to facebook, twitter, messageboards and find out what other people are thinking, re-assess, link and all the rest of it.
Often if there's a story in an on-line edition (eg Daily Mayl) I will go to the Groaniad, and then the Indy for different views on the same topic.
However, the Telegraph puts a lot of it's stuff behind a paywall, and the Times wholly, so they have an agenda it won't get across the the majority (hence why the Daily Mayl won't).

 

[Hornet]

Today's fake news is yesterday's propaganda. I personally feel that New Labour's Spin Doctor, Alistair Campbell was the person in the UK that elevated the Lord Haw-Haw style propaganda into mainstream fakery and falsehoods. Mind you he did have previous form. He wrote erotic fiction for Forum magazine in the 70's, so he should know a bit about faking things!

 

[DaleCooper]

They won't get to me because of my tinfoil lampshades hopefully.

Tinfoil hats shaped like flying saucers and decorated with freemasonry symbols have been found embedded in rocks that are millions of years old - explain that.

 

[DaleCooper]

Maybe start with the fact that Humpty Dumpty's oological nature is a myth. It's fake news, go look it up for yourself. Nowhere in the primary source does it say he was an egg.

Humpty Dumpty didn't fall; he was pushed. It's a bit of a coincidence that all those king's men were nearby at the time.

 

[furnessvale]

I for one think schools should concentrate on teaching the obvious difference between clouds and chemtrails.

THINKSKK 4 URSeLVEs SheepL£!!!!!!11!11111!!!!one!!11!!!

Haven't contrails just recently been given an official designation as a cloud type by the people who decide such things?

 

[Essan]

Haven't contrails just recently been given an official designation as a cloud type by the people who decide such things?

Yes, they have. Cirrus homogenitus. Therefore all "chemtrails" are now simply clouds

But this just proves the WMO are in on the conpsiracy to hide the fact that chemtrails are being used to cause global warming, prevent global warming, poison our water supplies, reduce the human population, make us more compliant/brain wash us, enable HAARP to cause hurricanes, and hide planet Nibiru from view (all of which must be true cos I read it on the internet!)

 

[najaB]

Haven't contrails just recently been given an official designation as a cloud type by the people who decide such things?

Cirrus homogenitus / homomutatus.

 

[furnessvale]

Yes, they have. Cirrus homogenitus. Therefore all "chemtrails" are now simply clouds

But this just proves the WMO are in on the conpsiracy to hide the fact that chemtrails are being used to cause global warming, prevent global warming, poison our water supplies, reduce the human population, make us more compliant/brain wash us, enable HAARP to cause hurricanes, and hide planet Nibiru from view (all of which must be true cos I read it on the internet!)

I do remember that the skies over the UK were never clearer than when all flying was stopped for some days due to the Icelandic volcano.

 

[curly42]

... and what about the strategic reserve ? :roll:

 

[Howardh]

I do remember that the skies over the UK were never clearer than when all flying was stopped for some days due to the Icelandic volcano.

...apart from the areas covered by the sooty ash cloud.

Where's there's a silver lining there's a cloud....

 

[TheEdge]

... and what about the strategic reserve ? :roll:

What, that's not a conspiracy, its all true. When Trump pushes the button the fleet of factory fresh 9Fs will be ready!

 

[furnessvale]

...apart from the areas covered by the sooty ash cloud.

Where's there's a silver lining there's a cloud....

The wind must have been blowing the other way. It was fine over Derbyshire!

 

[Cowley]

Well I sat down at lunchtime and went through the link on debunking the moon landings that Dale posted earlier with the youngest and oldest of the kids after doing a straw poll on what they actually believed to be the truth.
I feel that we got somewhere and hopefully they've taken onboard the need to pull in knowledge from a variety of sources rather than what just one or two people have said on Facebook for example.
Their opinions have definitely changed after our chat and not only that but I've learnt new things too which is what it's all about really.
It's been emotional.