Excess ticket question

[winks3]

Hi there,

I have a monthly season ticket from Lancing to Shepherds Bush (Route CLAPHM J NOT LDN, price £377.10 if that gives more context).

I often travel in to central London on contactless from Shepherds Bush and want to go back to the south from Victoria. Now I have at times wanted to get the Gatwick Express from Victoria to Brighton and change there to go home.

For this journey I have spoken to multiple ticket office staff and each time I get conflicting answers - some say I cannot get an excess from Victoria to Clapham Junction as the express train does not stop at CJ, others provide me with the excess ticket (priced at around £2).

Who is right here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Under the old NRCoC, it was clear that this (combining a season with a non-season provided the combination was valid for the whole journey) was permitted.

However, under the new NRCoT it is not clear. There are two readings of the relevant paragraph - one is that you can do as before, the other is that you can do it ONLY onto the *start or end* of a season ticket and with no overlap, e.g. in this case if you were to want to extend from Shepherd's Bush to, say, Harrow and Wealdstone (though all trains stop anyway).

I suspect the intended interpretation is that you can do it, but unfortunately when you have vaguely worded rules some will interpret different ways.

It might be easier to take one of GTR's Southern branded trains that stops at CLJ, as you can definitely do it where the train stops. You probably won't lose much time that way.

 

[yorkie]

Hi there,

I have a monthly season ticket from Lancing to Shepherds Bush (Route CLAPHM J NOT LDN, price £377.10 if that gives more context).

I often travel in to central London on contactless from Shepherds Bush and want to go back to the south from Victoria. Now I have at times wanted to get the Gatwick Express from Victoria to Brighton and change there to go home.

For this journey I have spoken to multiple ticket office staff and each time I get conflicting answers - some say I cannot get an excess from Victoria to Clapham Junction as the express train does not stop at CJ, others provide me with the excess ticket (priced at around £2).

Who is right here?

You can combine a Season ticket valid as far as Clapham Junction, with any ticket that is valid from Clapham Junction onwards (and vice-versa), with no requirement for the train to actually call at Clapham Junction.

All trains between Victoria & Gatwick are operated by Govia Thameslink Railway. Unfortunately they are Britain's worst train company for both train performance and also customer service. Some of their staff may dislike you using this valid combination on the company's trains which are branded "Gatwick Express" (which, at the times most people travel, are actually slower than the company's longer distance "Southern" branded trains) and they may incorrectly attempt to deny your access to Platforms 13/14 at London Victoria. However any such attempts to deny your rights can be reported to the company, and repeated denials of service can be reported to the relevant authorities.

Here is the relevant condition, which makes it clear your combination is valid:

National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT)

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

 

[Haywain]

For this journey I have spoken to multiple ticket office staff and each time I get conflicting answers - some say I cannot get an excess from Victoria to Clapham Junction as the express train does not stop at CJ, others provide me with the excess ticket (priced at around £2).

An excess fare should not be issued against a season ticket, but a ticket for the additional (part of the) journey. If you have an annual season, issued as a Gold Card, the ticket from Victoria to Clapham Junction would cost £2.25 as of today, so this is probably what you have had.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, Haywain is absolutely right about the terminology; an additional ticket being used in combination with an existing ticket should not be called an "Excess fare", which is a term with a specific meaning, that has the act of 'converting' one fare into another fare.

Using a combination of tickets (sometimes called "split ticketing"), which is what applies to this particular scenario, is very different to an excess fare.

 

[winks3]

Excellent - thanks for clarifying