DBS working 642S - Millerhill SS to Elgin

[Sarahs_Railway]

Working was made this evening from Millerhill SS to Elgin with a load of welded rails. Class 66 up front - 66 117 - was in EWS maroon and gold with DBS badging. The 66 on the back that caught me out and had me fumbling for the camera was in absolutely pristine DBS red livery - think it may have been 66 236 but my camera was very wobbly so I can't quite read it. Looks like it may be working back south tomorrow on same route in reverse. Probably means some poor souls are working on track laying tonight on the ABD to INV route.

Pics of this working are at the link below

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/

 

[Aws87024]

Working was made this evening from Millerhill SS to Elgin with a load of welded rails. Class 66 up front - 66 117 - was in EWS maroon and gold with DBS badging. The 66 on the back that caught me out and had me fumbling for the camera was in absolutely pristine DBS red livery - think it may have been 66 236 but my camera was very wobbly so I can't quite read it. Looks like it may be working back south tomorrow on same route in reverse. Probably means some poor souls are working on track laying tonight on the ABD to INV route.

Pics of this working are at the link below

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/

Its 66206.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Its 66206.

Many thanks. As I said I was caught out by the second loco on the back. I am presuming that they are track laying tonight then working back tomorrow afternoon by which time I should be ready for them and eradicate camera shake! Again my thanks for your help. I shall amend the flickr info and credit you

 

[GusB]

They're extending the loop at Elgin, and Forres station is being completely rebuilt on a new alignment. I'm not sure exactly what's being done this weekend, though.

 

[TimboM]

66206 had its repaint in mid-April.

By the way, the TOPS Request Thread (here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86602&page=828) is your best bet if you're looking for a missing number on a working you've seen...

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

66206 had its repaint in mid-April.

By the way, the TOPS Request Thread (here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86602&page=828) is your best bet if you're looking for a missing number on a working you've seen...

Well! whoever polishes 66206 between workings needs to be honoured by their employer. Never seen such a pristine example. As for seeing numbers on locos? I am so old that I view through camera with my specs off and can see nothing once i look up

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

They're extending the loop at Elgin, and Forres station is being completely rebuilt on a new alignment. I'm not sure exactly what's being done this weekend, though.

Thanks GusB - are they looking at getting longer trains on the Aberdeen to Inverness run?

 

[cf111]

Thanks GusB - are they looking at getting longer trains on the Aberdeen to Inverness run?

It will eventually be 4/5 car HSTs.

 

[TimboM]

Well! whoever polishes 66206 between workings needs to be honoured by their employer. Never seen such a pristine example. As for seeing numbers on locos? I am so old that I view through camera with my specs off and can see nothing once i look up

In that case, that thread will definitely come in handy!

 

[najaB]

It will eventually be 4/5 car HSTs.

That said, at 250m the loop at Elgin is already long enough for a 5 car HST.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

It will eventually be 4/5 car HSTs.

I take it these will be the current stock on the VTEC route once the Azuma's take over on the ECML. I haven't really looked into the Azuma Project but I am assuming that they run from KGX to EDB on the overheads then switch on the diesel up to Aberdeen and Inverness?

 

[GusB]

I take it these will be the current stock on the VTEC route once the Azuma's take over on the ECML. I haven't really looked into the Azuma Project but I am assuming that they run from KGX to EDB on the overheads then switch on the diesel up to Aberdeen and Inverness?

I think they're coming from GWR, rather than VTEC.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

I think they're coming from GWR, rather than VTEC.

oh right. I will look into GWR to see what changes on their routes are releasing them. thanks again - I am new to all this so it takes a lot of reading up

 

[GusB]

There are various threads concerning Scotrail. I'm not aware of any thread specifically concerning the Aberdeen to Inverness upgrades, but the general stuff can be found here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103634

 

[najaB]

There are various threads concerning Scotrail. I'm not aware of any thread specifically concerning the Aberdeen to Inverness upgrades, but the general stuff can be found here...

In addition, this thread specifically deals with the HSTs: [thread=137911]Scotrail HST Refurbishment Plans - Leaked Info (Now Confirmed 23/03/2017)[/thread], and this one with the Aberdeen to Inverness work: [thread=122030]Aberdeen - Inverness £170m Upgrade[/thread].

 

[TimboM]

oh right. I will look into GWR to see what changes on their routes are releasing them. thanks again - I am new to all this so it takes a lot of reading up

There's a whole load of posts/threads on this too - cannot lay my finger on a specific one, but have a nosey around in the search function.

Simplistically, though, it's the electrification of (parts of) the GWR routes from Paddington to the South West which will allow the introduction of the Hitachi Class 800/801/802s (I forget which are which!) being acquired under the DfT's IEP programme. This will then result in the HSTs which are the workhorses of that route being surplus, with some being earmarked for transfer to Scotland (see link najaB shared).

Other stock being freed up is also going to be cascaded (e.g. DMUs up to the Northwest to enable Pacers to be finally eradicated).

However, the GWR electrification is significantly delayed, so the cascade plans likewise have been delayed or have required revision. The types of units they're acquiring under IEP has also altered (more electric/diesel bi-modes variants I believe).

Anyhow, a very long story which I'm sure you'll have fun reading up on...!

 

[GusB]

In addition, this thread specifically deals with the HSTs: [thread=137911]Scotrail HST Refurbishment Plans - Leaked Info (Now Confirmed 23/03/2017)[/thread], and this one with the Aberdeen to Inverness work: [thread=122030]Aberdeen - Inverness £170m Upgrade[/thread].

Clearly I have a very short memory

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

May I ask a daft question? I can't access the sectional appendix for the ABD to INV route but i am almost willing to lay a pound on the line that it can't allow 125mph working. Are they working to straighten or cant the route? I can't see a benefit of sticking a 125mph train on a 70 or 80 mph infrastructure unless a 50 year old diesel accelerates faster than a modern dmu?

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

There's a whole load of posts/threads on this too - cannot lay my finger on a specific one, but have a nosey around in the search function.

Simplistically, though, it's the electrification of (parts of) the GWR routes from Paddington to the South West which will allow the introduction of the Hitachi Class 800/801/802s (I forget which are which!) being acquired under the DfT's IEP programme. This will then result in the HSTs which are the workhorses of that route being surplus, with some being earmarked for transfer to Scotland (see link najaB shared).

Other stock being freed up is also going to be cascaded (e.g. DMUs up to the Northwest to enable Pacers to be finally eradicated).

However, the GWR electrification is significantly delayed, so the cascade plans likewise have been delayed or have required revision. The types of units they're acquiring under IEP has also altered (more electric/diesel bi-modes variants I believe).

Anyhow, a very long story which I'm sure you'll have fun reading up on...!

Roll on the day the Pacers are retired. They are a disgrace. Who on earth thought that they were reasonable? I have been on them on they are totally crap. I would let Scotrail keep our older stuff to allow Northern to consign those things to a very large skip.

 

[najaB]

May I ask a daft question? I can't access the sectional appendix for the ABD to INV route but i am almost willing to lay a pound on the line that it can't allow 125mph working.

That is correct. The highest speeds are 75mph AFAIK.

Are they working to straighten or cant the route? I can't see a benefit of sticking a 125mph train on a 70 or 80 mph infrastructure unless a 50 year old diesel accelerates faster than a modern dmu?

There will be some speed increases but I think they are mainly removing the tightest low-speed restrictions (e.g. the 20mph through Forres station) as that will have the greatest impact on end to end journey times. They are using HSTs because they are a cheap, readily available way to improve the quality of Scotrail's inter-city offering.

 

[najaB]

Roll on the day the Pacers are retired. They are a disgrace. Who on earth thought that they were reasonable?

The problem with Pacers isn't that they were introduced, it is that they are still in use 20 years after they were supposed to be gone. BR didn't have the money for an all-new DMU fleet, Pacers allowed them to keep routes open that would have had to close otherwise.

 

[E_Reeves]

Well! whoever polishes 66206 between workings needs to be honoured by their employer. Never seen such a pristine example. As for seeing numbers on locos? I am so old that I view through camera with my specs off and can see nothing once i look up

66082 looks pretty good as well. Nice and clean and a new style of DB livery seems to be coming out. Even got to go in the cab!

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

The problem with Pacers isn't that they were introduced, it is that they are still in use 20 years after they were supposed to be gone. BR didn't have the money for an all-new DMU fleet, Pacers allowed them to keep routes open that would have had to close otherwise.

That's a fair point. I recall how cash starved the railways were in my youth. We just accepted that trains were a bit knackered. The Northern routes deserve better than those things these days and their franchise should be made to deliver it up front with no fare increases for the passengers. If the franchise do it well they will make money. they aint daft.

 

[najaB]

The Northern routes deserve better than those things these days and their franchise should be made to deliver it up front with no fare increases for the passengers. If the franchise do it well they will make money. they aint daft.

Good news on that front: [thread=128808]CAF Built Class 195 / 331 Confirmed[/thread].

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Good news on that front: [thread=122030]CAF Built Class 195 / 331 Confirmed[/thread].

Now if that can be delivered on time and on budget I shall raise my hat and shout "chapeau!". That is a huge amount of work. The route will require resignalling etc. But if BAM can deliver then I shall eat my own chapeau. T&C's apply regarding eating of chapeau.....

 

[TimboM]

May I ask a daft question? I can't access the sectional appendix for the ABD to INV route but i am almost willing to lay a pound on the line that it can't allow 125mph working. Are they working to straighten or cant the route? I can't see a benefit of sticking a 125mph train on a 70 or 80 mph infrastructure unless a 50 year old diesel accelerates faster than a modern dmu?

In addition to other responses provided, I also believe that shortened HST sets have a power/weight ratio which means they can broadly match the acceleration of a DMU, enabling DMU-esque timings to be achieved whilst 'recycling' old stock.

Also, whilst the HSTs are 40 years old, their engines are considerably younger (c.10-15 years old) due to the replacement of all the original Valenta engines with either Paxman VP185s or MTUs in the 'noughties' (the GWR ones now having the MTU engines).

I'd also argue there's a passenger comfort benefit of the Mk3 coaches with the engines (and noise) at each end, rather than modern DMUs which always seem to feel more cramped and also have the drone of the engines/motors which typically are under each coach. I'd rather travel round Scotland on a refurbed HST than a Voyager...!

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

In addition to other responses provided, I also believe that shortened HST sets have a power/weight ratio which means they can broadly match the acceleration of a DMU, enabling DMU-esque timings to be achieved whilst 'recycling' old stock.

Also, whilst the HSTs are 40 years old, their engines are considerably younger (c.10-15 years old) due to the replacement of all the original Valenta engines with either Paxman VP185s or MTUs in the 'noughties' (the GWR ones now having the MTU engines).

I'd also argue there's a passenger comfort benefit of the Mk3 coaches with the engines (and noise) at each end, rather than modern DMUs which always seem to feel more cramped and also have the drone of the engines/motors which typically are under each coach. I'd rather travel round Scotland on a refurbished HST than a Voyager...!

That is a very good point indeed Timbo. I travel the ECML a lot on VTEC 125's and you don't get the engine noise in the carriage - just the change of tune of the wheels as the driver knocks the revs up. Good point - well made.

 

[xotGD]

Just a pity Scotland hasn't followed the TPE route of Mark 5 coaches with a 68 on the end rather than cast-off Trams.

I suppose it brings the service level back to where it was with 47/7s on Mark 3 stock.

 

[najaB]

Just a pity Scotland hasn't followed the TPE route of Mark 5 coaches with a 68 on the end rather than cast-off Trams.

The Mk3 + HST will provide an equivalent service quality at a much lower cost.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Pictures of the return working 658U Elgin Yard to Millerhill are at the link below. Pictures taken at Leuchars and Kirkcaldy.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/