Theresa May calls General Election on 8th June.

[me123]

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/forget-52-rise-re-leavers-mean-pro-brexit-electora/

How can it be true when all we've heard for months is how virtually EVERY leaver regrets their Out vote, seems like the Remainers have got it very wrong - again.

There's a big difference between "supporting leaving the EU" and "accepting the result of the referendum". It's likely that lots of people in that group would still be pro-EU, but following the result of the referendum they have accepted that withdrawal will happen and want to get on with it, and move towards the best possible outcome. My own position is not well defined within the poll, but aligns closer with the "Re-Leavers", at least with regards to England and Wales.

Frankly, the fact that approximately a fifth to a quarter of the electorate would seek to overturn the result of a referendum is a strong indication of mass discontent.

 

[EM2]

How can it be true when all we've heard for months is how virtually EVERY leaver regrets their Out vote, seems like the Remainers have got it very wrong - again.

It explains in the link how it can be true:

These are people who voted to Remain in the EU and many still think that leaving was the wrong decision, but crucially now believe the government has a duty to carry out the will of the British people.

You can count me in that group for a start. Leave have made the bed and now we all have to lie in it.

 

[Dave1987]

48% of our exports, and falling, may well be with the EU but that is a far cry from our GDP.

Around 10% of our GDP is connected to the EU. When we leave, 90% of our GDP will not be subject to EU control.

Haha you are kidding right? Blimey you Brexiteers are really not understanding the repercussions of the decision. The lucrative euro clearing market will almost certainly be heading to Paris. They tried to get it years ago but were thwarted by the ECJ. Not to mention the thousands of jobs in the city that are going to be lost. Absolutely huge amounts of our GDP are going to be lost! Combine that with WTO rules and prices will be going up. It's a lose lose situation.

 

[Barn]

A patronising argument? So it's OK for us to go and drop bombs in Libya and Syria because we don't like who is in charge (and then leave the place to go to crap), but not OK to use our expertise to advise and assist to help raise living standards? I guess you'd prefer it if we didn't have a foreign aid budget either.

When did I say anything about bombing or foreign aid? Complete non-sequiturs.

You weren't talking about advising and assisting -- who would ever complain about the EU if that's all it did -- but imposing and requiring.

 

[Mvann]

When did I say anything about bombing or foreign aid? Complete non-sequiturs.

You weren't talking about advising and assisting -- who would ever complain about the EU if that's all it did -- but imposing and requiring.

And also it would be up to the Romanians if they wanted the expertise and advise.

 

[EM2]

And also it would be up to the Romanians if they wanted the expertise and advise.

They are obviously aware of the requirements when they join.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just heard Mrs May saying on the BBC News tonight and have also heard several times previously, that the amount of money directed to the NHS depends on a strong economy. What has the economy got to do with the health of the sick ?

 

[me123]

Interesting - is she planning to use the economic turmoil of the next few years to justify further cuts to the NHS budget, blaming its abolition on our decision to leave the EU? [/conspiracy]

 

[Barn]

Just heard Mrs May saying on the BBC News tonight and have also heard several times previously, that the amount of money directed to the NHS depends on a strong economy. What has the economy got to do with the health of the sick ?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Butts]

Is this a serious question?

Not to acolytes of momentum

 

[me123]

Conservatives pulling out all the stops to retain Vale of Clwyd. Just had an awful campaign leaflet through the letterbox earlier today - rehashing 2015 slogans ("Coalition of chaos"). Two sides of A4 dedicated to the risk that is Jeremy Corbyn, very little about what the Conservatives are going to do beyond Brexit. Similar to the negative Tory campaigning in the local election. Tory campaign slogans everywhere. No-one else seems to have done much yet - I'm only aware of Labour, Lib Dems and Plaid having selected candidates. It'll be a Labour target seat (that they'll probably lose, but it's actually one of their better chances) so I'd have expected more from them.

 

[Grimsby town]

I have no desire to reduce standards but it is surely sensible that regulations are tailored to UK conditions which can be very different from, say, Romania. As it stands, the EU is constantly trying to impose common rules for 28 very different countries.

The problem is to have a fair free trade deal were we can compete against the likes of Romania, we need to have similar regulatory standards.

It shocks me when certain brexiters advocate free trade deals with countries like China. Countries that have vastly inferior wages, workers rights and environmental protections. How will our industry (most of which is dead) compete with a country which has significantly cheaper electricity and can pollute as much as it likes?

 

[Barn]

It shocks me when certain brexiters advocate free trade deals with countries like China. Countries that have vastly inferior wages, workers rights and environmental protections. How will our industry (most of which is dead) compete with a country which has significantly cheaper electricity and can pollute as much as it likes?

We won't and can't compete directly with China on manufacturing because of their wages, cost of land, etc. These things often vastly outweigh most tariffs, which is why we see a plethora of Chinese-made goods despite tariffs. The tariffs do not really level the playing field, but they do make things more expensive for businesses and end-users to purchase. What we can do is buy their goods more cheaply to improve our quality of life, and buy their component parts for our businesses to turn into more specialised goods.

We can only compete by doing different things to China (creative industries, etc), playing to our strengths (finance, legal, etc) or producing world-leading products (Scottish whisky, etc)

 

[muddythefish]

May's promise to extend workers' rights is some sort of sick joke seeing as the Tories have been attacking workers' rights for the past 40 years, including the trade union movement.

Meanwhile, scratch a Tory and the nastiness is never far from the surface witness 2 disgraceful comments by a prospective Conservative MP and a Tory councillor.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...erendum-scottish-national-party-a7735311.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cillor-suspended-racist-Eurovision-tweet.html

 

[EM2]

May's promise to extend workers' rights is some sort of sick joke seeing as the Tories have been attacking workers' rights for the past 40 years, including the trade union movement.

And the fact that it now costs £1200 to bring a case to tribunal means that no matter how extensive the rights of the worker are, if you can't afford the fee then any breach is moot.

 

[Barn]

And the fact that it now costs £1200 to bring a case to tribunal means that no matter how extensive the rights of the worker are, if you can't afford the fee then any breach is moot.

Something we agree on. The tribunal fees are a disgrace and I hope T-May sees fit to reverse them as part of her reforms.

 

[furnessvale]

Haha you are kidding right? Blimey you Brexiteers are really not understanding the repercussions of the decision. The lucrative euro clearing market will almost certainly be heading to Paris. They tried to get it years ago but were thwarted by the ECJ. Not to mention the thousands of jobs in the city that are going to be lost. Absolutely huge amounts of our GDP are going to be lost! Combine that with WTO rules and prices will be going up. It's a lose lose situation.

I have quoted actual percentages of our GDP that involves the EU.

If you believe I am wrong please quote alternative figures for discussion.

"Absolutely huge amounts" based on your thoughts doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[Dave1987]

I have quoted actual percentages of our GDP that involves the EU.

If you believe I am wrong please quote alternative figures for discussion.

"Absolutely huge amounts" based on your thoughts doesn't cut the mustard.

I notice you completely avoid the point about Euro clearing going to Paris, and avoid to point about WTO rules with the tariffs that will cause. Brexit is going to seriously damage the economy. Inflation is up again and the BoE dare not raise interest rates because of the precarious state of the economy. Like is said Brexit is lose lose.

 

[Dave1987]

Something we agree on. The tribunal fees are a disgrace and I hope T-May sees fit to reverse them as part of her reforms.

Why would she do that? She has an automatic attack reaction to trade unions so why would she want to make it easier for employees to take their employers to tribunal?

 

[furnessvale]

I notice you completely avoid the point about Euro clearing going to Paris, and avoid to point about WTO rules with the tariffs that will cause. Brexit is going to seriously damage the economy. Inflation is up again and the BoE dare not raise interest rates because of the precarious state of the economy. Like is said Brexit is lose lose.

What percentage of our GDP is provided by Euro clearing? Hint, it is low.

 

[Dave1987]

What percentage of our GDP is provided by Euro clearing? Hint, it is low.

It's worth £792bn a day! That's not small. And what about WTO rules? All the tariffs that come with that eh? Lose - lose!!

 

[Barn]

It's worth £792bn a day! That's not small. And what about WTO rules? All the tariffs that come with that eh? Lose - lose!!

Dave, the WTO tariff point might make the 10% of GDP which is exported to the EU slightly more expensive. It isn't a separate chunk of GDP.

On Euro clearing, the volume of traffic per day does not equate to the income to the UK. We wouldn't be much of a clearing centre if we confiscated every Euro that came through London! London happily clears US Dollars and Japanese Yen and many other currencies without being in political union. The EU can't simply ban London from handling an internationally traded currency. If the EU decided to ban its citizens, states and businesses from performing transactions in London, it would be excluding them from one of the latest financial centres in the world and would cause huge damage.

 

[AlterEgo]

Labour Manifesto is out. Not as bad as it could have been, but still, it'll be aspiring middle classes who'll foot the bill for it. Ed Miliband's manifesto got a good reception but just remember people in 2017 don't vote for something which has a whiff of socialism about it. Blair's era ensured that more people have the vision of upward social mobility (even if said social mobility didn't come to fruition in all cases!), so the idea of being "working class for life" is a much less mainstream pursuit than it once was.

The best idea in the manifesto is, in my opinion, the National Education Service and I've always wondered why we have never had something like it.

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Images/manifesto-2017/Labour Manifesto 2017.pdf

That said, the Labour Manifesto essentially creates a vision of a very large state looking after lower wage earners forever rather than actually enabling people to thrive in a more laissez-faire political environment.

Shame Labour have some absolute hatstands for a potential Cabinet.

Bring back David Miliband.

 

[ainsworth74]

I struggle slightly with this sentence appearing on page 120 of 124:

The primary duty of any government is to protect and defend its citizens.

I mean, I'm not saying they should cover Defence on page one but you can hardly claim that you think it's a 'primary duty' when it appears more like an after thought.

 

[AlterEgo]

The more I read the Labour manifesto the more I'm convinced it is fundamentally held back by the non-authoritarian stances held. Especially on defence, immigration, and crime. I'm afraid the trend in many Western democracies at present is for a more reactionary and authoritarian state which falls back on basic nationalism. I don't necessarily agree that that's a future I want but I struggle to see how Labour are going to get their foot into No10 without reverting to some of those tricks.

I also don't really see Corbyn that much in the manifesto - it doesn't really seem to have his stamp. Is that good? Bad? Who knows?

 

[me123]

Plaid Cymru's manifesto (sorry, "Action Plan") has also been released today. Click here.

The have some nice ideas IMO, and given that Westminster is unlikely to represent my interests for the foreseeable future, pledges to strengthen the Welsh Assembly are welcome to me. I can't really find much I disagree with here.

 

[AlterEgo]

From the BBC:

High earners facing effective tax rate of 73.2%
Posted at
14:01
As things stand Labour's plans could mean people earning between £100,000 and £123,000 will pay 73.2% in tax once employer and employee National Insurance contributions, as well as income tax, are factored in.

That, the Institute for Fiscal Studies points out, is because the party hasn't removed "the absurd and arbitrary marginal income tax band" affecting this group "which arises from the policy described as withdrawing the personal allowance".

The personal allowance - the amount you can earn without it being taxed at all - currently stands at £11,000 but is withdrawn where an individual’s income exceeds £100,000.

 

[me123]

This affects people who are easily in the top 2% of earners, just to clarify.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The earner doesn't pay employer NICs.

The IFS chatting gibberish? Perish the thought.

 

[Moonshot]

From the BBC:

At what rate would a universal flat rate of tax ( ie same rate for everyone and no personal allowances etc ) raise the same amount of income tax in total as it does now?