Penalty fare, ticket confiscation AND charged a second time

[psimon]

Hello,

Last week on my morning commute, I forgot to date my carnet - mea culpa, I accept that's my fault. I'm normally religious about filling this in during my morning routine, but for whatever reason it was disrupted that particular day and I neglected to do it.

My question is about the confiscation of my ticket; this was taken from me and I had to purchase a new ticket for the remainder of the journey (after that covered by the penalty fare to the next station) - my question is, if I had said I had no ticket at all, I could have 'gotten off' at the next station and re-boarded with my 'now validated' carnet. Instead, I effectively paid twice for the same journey.

I admit to the error with the carnet and associated penalty fare, but I do feel this 'double payment' for the remainder of the journey is slightly unjustified.

Thoughts and advice welcome, and thank you in advance for your input...

Simon

 

[najaB]

I admit to the error with the carnet and associated penalty fare, but I do feel this 'double payment' for the remainder of the journey is slightly unjustified.

Consider someone less honest than yourself. On days where they weren't detected they would have a completely unmarked carnet to reuse on another day, and on days where they did get detected they would only be stung by the cost of the penalty fare.

This way, they have to pay the penalty fare plus a large part of the non-discounted fare for the journey being made.

 

[psimon]

Understood, but my point is that if I said I had "no ticket at all" then the penalty would have been the same and the carnet would not have been confiscated... is that true?

Simon

 

[cuccir]

Train companies can be very suspicious with errors over carnet tickets, because of the scope for abuse (as NajaB highlights). So you were lucky to be believed that it was a mistake: the train company, had they not believed you, could have taken the option of investigating with a view to attempting to prosecute you, under laws that would have resulted in a fine and a criminal record if successful.

On those grounds, having to pay twice is not a bad outcome!

 

[yorkie]

Instead, I effectively paid twice for the same journey.

You got off lightly then. Was this with Govia Thameslink Railway by any chance? If so you are very fortunate not to be prosecuted.

Each case is different, but there are many incidents of people being prosecuted for issues regarding the date box on carnets, such as:

• Intent to prosecute letter - reusing carnet - Please help!
• Carnet problem - solicitor recommendation and any other comments?

You could pursue your case and argue you effectively paid more than someone with no ticket, but I am not sure it's worthwhile. If they re-examine the case, they could yet cancel the Penalty Fare, refunding it to you, and then launch an investigation.

They can be ruthless.

I wouldn't touch carnets; it's not worth the risks.

Understood, but my point is that if I said I had "no ticket at all" then the penalty would have been the same and the carnet would not have been confiscated... is that true?

Simon

They would seek to establish why the passenger held no ticket.

If they were satisfied that the passenger made a mistake in not buying a ticket, then a Penalty Fare would probably be deemed appropriate.

 

[najaB]

Understood, but my point is that if I said I had "no ticket at all" then the penalty would have been the same and the carnet would not have been confiscated... is that true?

Equally, you might have been facing a prosecution for a Byelaw 18 offence.

 

[Merseysider]

Consider losing an undated carnet a necessary sacrifice to avoid prosecution. People have ended up with criminal records for similar offences.

Had you produced no ticket at all, you would undoubtedly be looking at a day in court, or paying a 3-figure sum to settle out of court.

You could of course request that they prosecute you and refund your penalty fare, if you fancy seeing what the (worse) alternative looks like (don't).

 

[cjmillsnun]

I wouldn't touch carnets; it's not worth the risks.

This. Until they get them on a smart card.

 

[reb0118]

This. Until they get them on a smart card.

ScotRail will be switching flexi passes (carnets) from paper to smart cards