NXEC cuts services and ups prices again!

[Metroland]

The railway restaurant car is to be scrapped and the space used to cram in more passengers, ending a 130-year tradition of fine dining on trains.

Passengers will no longer be able to watch the countryside slip by at 125mph as a waiter serves them a four-course dinner at a neatly laid table. Instead, they will have to bring their own food or buy snacks from trolleys.

National Express, the last train company to offer a frequent restaurant service, is closing its dining cars under a secret deal with the Government.

When the railways were privatised in the mid-1990s, the DfT made it a condition of the East Coast franchise that the operator, GNER, should run at least 86 restaurant cars a day. But in 2007, when National Express took over the franchise, the DfT secretly removed the obligation and left train catering at the company’s discretion.

Barry Doe, a leading commentator on train catering, said: “Car drivers have to stop at services, but on a train you can dine without wasting any time. Restaurants cars also tip the balance for trains against planes. It’s worth taking a bit longer between London and Edinburgh if you can have a terrific meal.”

He said National Express, which uses the slogan “making travel simple”, was destroying much of the romance of rail travel. “National Express is a coach operator and they are applying their no-frills mindset to the railways.”

In a statement, National Express said: “On-board catering is discretionary in the DfT’s franchise agreement and comes at a significant net cost to the company.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article5860568.ece

Britain is already famous for having some of the most expensive train fares in the world. Now a Money investigation reveals how car parking charges at train stations have, in many cases, doubled in just a few years, with National Express imposing some of the biggest hikes.

It operates four franchises and in the last few weeks has imposed price increases of between 20% and 66% at some of the stations it controls.

The hike in parking fees comes on top of 6%-plus train fare increases, bringing the annual cost of commuting for those who leave their car at the station* to as much as £8,000.

While 60% of train fare increases are regulated, it seems anything goes in the world of car parking.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/mar/07/railway-parking-cost

 

[schmoo_smith]

idiots

 

[ukrob]

Would I prefer to be crammed into a vestibule or would I prefer a train with a restaurant service.

Thats a tough one. Not.

 

[yorkie]

Are they abolishing the restaurant service but keeping the buffet cars? Or are they actually abolishing the buffet cars altogether (unthinkable - even for this awful company, surely?!)

 

[Flyboy]

Oh dear!

Is the disease known as Ryanair starting to influence the railways?

You must vote with your feet, and spread the word to others to do likewise.

 

[ukrob]

Oh dear!

Is the disease known as Ryanair starting to influence the railways?

You must vote with your feet, and spread the word to others to do likewise.

That will help the overcrowding too.

 

[tbtc]

So, no changes to the number of train services provided, and no change to the price of tickets?

I'd imagine 95% of NXEC don't use the restaurants regularly; I'm not too bothered by this, as long as they retain some on board food. With the car parks, I'd rather people used buses/ local trains, to connect with NXEC.

I just can't see the need for the hysteria...

 

[ladysue]

So, no changes to the number of train services provided, and no change to the price of tickets?

I'd imagine 95% of NXEC don't use the restaurants regularly; I'm not too bothered by this, as long as they retain some on board food. With the car parks, I'd rather people used buses/ local trains, to connect with NXEC.

I just can't see the need for the hysteria...

I dont think its hysteria, just sad that a service is being withdrawn. Yes we can take sandwiches but on a long journey from London to Scotland it was nice to be able to get a cooked meal. If the government wants people to use public transport they need to make it more pleasant than using the car.With the car we can stop for a meal.

As for car park charges I live in the country 6 miles from the nearest station and with an infrequent bus service some distance away. I have to use station car parks as does anyone in my locality who commutes to London.

 

[mrcheek]

This is a stupid article. Note the use of ridiculous phrases such as to "Cram in more passengers". Rail travel is becoming more popular. New coaches are not available yet, there is no space for more services at peak times, so NXEC gets criticised because they take a bold step to increase passenger seating space.

It reminds me of when FGW refurbished all their coaches, and put in hi-density seating, and removed most of the tables. And a few loudmouths complained.

The fact is, only a tiny minority of passengers are interested in getting a four-course dinner on a train, and only a minority care about getting a table.
The overwhelming majority of passengers simply want to be able to travel with a decent seat for the entirety of their journey. As such the majority will surely applaud NXEC's decision to scrap the un-necessary dining car, like the majority surely approved of FGW's decision to greatly increase the number of seats on services.

Of course, some of the other things NXEC are doing are not so good. But I cant fault them here. Just as long as they keep some form of on board catering, and I can still get my free coffee in 1st class!!

 

[richa2002]

I would hardly call hi-density seating in an FGW Mk3 a 'decent seat'.

 

[will1337]

I would hardly call hi-density seating in an FGW Mk3 a 'decent seat'.

Certainly not from Paddington to Cornwall.

 

[Pumbaa]

Are they abolishing the restaurant service but keeping the buffet cars? Or are they actually abolishing the buffet cars altogether (unthinkable - even for this awful company, surely?!)

From the way the article reads, they are closing the restaurant car, turning it into a normal FC carriage (which they do on non-Restaurant trains already) and possibly downsizing the kitchen/buffet area in coach H, which I would imagine would be done by getting rid of the FC kitchen at the London end of the coach, shifting the buffet desk backwards and putting in proper windows, making room for more SC seats.

Or what I would do, with a dip in FC passengers, turn the ex-Restaurant car into coach G for standard, re-insert it in the rake, get rid of the FC kitchen and stick FC seats in there for an overall greater seating increase for SC which is where the increase is needed in my opinion.

I got the gist that the catering on-board would now be buffet bar only, of which FC passengers could have served at their seats by the FC hosts. Or when the next money-saving round comes, they will have to get them themselves.

 

[yorkie]

This is a stupid article. Note the use of ridiculous phrases such as to "Cram in more passengers". Rail travel is becoming more popular. New coaches are not available yet, there is no space for more services at peak times, so NXEC gets criticised because they take a bold step to increase passenger seating space.

Meanwhile, in the real world, NXECs trains are actually a lot less busy than they were under GNER, and rail travel has not become more popular (at least not on this route) since NatEx took over the franchise.

It reminds me of when FGW refurbished all their coaches, and put in hi-density seating, and removed most of the tables. And a few loudmouths complained.

Passengers complained for good reasons: the seats are less comfortable, the coaches are far too bright, and tables are good for groups/families.

The fact is, only a tiny minority of passengers are interested in getting a four-course dinner on a train, and only a minority care about getting a table.

If that's true, why are table seats so popular?

The overwhelming majority of passengers simply want to be able to travel with a decent seat for the entirety of their journey. As such the majority will surely applaud NXEC's decision to scrap the un-necessary dining car, like the majority surely approved of FGW's decision to greatly increase the number of seats on services.

The scrapping of restaurant services is about money and it won't help the "majority" of passengers get a decent seat! Unless the coach is converted to standard class (unlikely given a very recent refurb) it will make no difference whatsoever to the "majority" of passengers! As for FGW - the seats are not decent in standard so your point is invalid.

Of course, some of the other things NXEC are doing are not so good. But I cant fault them here. Just as long as they keep some form of on board catering, and I can still get my free coffee in 1st class!!

Ahh, so you travel first class (where tables are in abundance)... yet you speak for the "majority" in standard?

 

[mrcheek]

I would hardly call hi-density seating in an FGW Mk3 a 'decent seat'.

I personlly see nothing wrong with FGW seats. You get far more legroom with one of those seats than you would have got at one of the old table seats!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Meanwhile, in the real world, NXECs trains are actually a lot less busy than they were under GNER, and rail travel has not become more popular (at least not on this route) since NatEx took over the franchise.

Passengers complained for good reasons: the seats are less comfortable, the coaches are far too bright, and tables are good for groups/families.

If that's true, why are table seats so popular?

The scrapping of restaurant services is about money and it won't help the "majority" of passengers get a decent seat! Unless the coach is converted to standard class (unlikely given a very recent refurb) it will make no difference whatsoever to the "majority" of passengers! As for FGW - the seats are not decent in standard so your point is invalid.

Ahh, so you travel first class (where tables are in abundance)... yet you speak for the "majority" in standard?

When Im on NXEC, Im using an ALR, so Im in 1st class. The majority of the time, Im in standard, on FGW.

And I still fail to see whats wrong with FGW seats. Theyre way better than what we had before, and the way 4 complete strangers were forced together on tables that nobody needed, desperately trying not to kick each others legs!
Whenever I travel on Paddington services, I very rarely see many families. Its mostly business travellers, usually in singles or pairs. And in case you missed it, they have these wonderful mini tables on the back of the seats as well! So everyone gets a table! They also have a much better chance of getting a seat. I think most people would choose to have a seat rather than having to stand in a vestibule.

And so what if the scrapping of the restaurant car IS solely about money? I guess you havent noticed that the country is in the midst of a major economic downturn, the likes of which have apparently not been seen before. So, every company, every government body, every family, every person needs to make cutbacks. So maybe we should be grateful that NXEC has managed to find cost reductions which will not lead to a reduction in services!!!!

 

[richa2002]

It's not our fault NXEC bid too much for the franchise and are now crying because they make as much profit as they thought. We shouldn't be grateful about a reduction in service!!

 

[Techniquest]

And I still fail to see whats wrong with FGW seats. Theyre way better than what we had before, and the way 4 complete strangers were forced together on tables that nobody needed, desperately trying not to kick each others legs!

*Shakes mrcheek's hand*

Thank you! It's high time someone appreciated the refurbishment! Yes I go on and on about how great it was to have the IC70 seats before the refurbishment, how it was awesome to find a coach full of them before the refurb was finished even for a short hop. But times change, things and people move on.

Way back in spring 2007 when I first tried out the refurbished sets (I don't have the exact date as it was all written in the back of my long-lost AEB book) with FGW from Newport to Swindon, I sat in what is/was referred to by HST bashers as 'the power seat' in the TGS. So called because you were as close to the power car as possible that way as a normal passenger. Point is that I made a note in my book that it was quite sufficient, that it was quite good and surpassed my expectations.

OK, so if you're doing Paddington to Penzance you're going to have a harder seat than previous. But face it, who sits in their seat for their entire journey? I know for a fact I don't! Indeed, on my first run with the refurbished sets I had gotten up half-way through the journey to get something for breakfast from the buffet!

Fair point about trying not to kick other people's legs when surrounded by people at a table, it is one thing I don't miss!

Whenever I travel on Paddington services, I very rarely see many families. Its mostly business travellers, usually in singles or pairs. And in case you missed it, they have these wonderful mini tables on the back of the seats as well! So everyone gets a table! They also have a much better chance of getting a seat. I think most people would choose to have a seat rather than having to stand in a vestibule.

In all fairness, most of the week you're not likely to see families out on HSTs. Weekends is when you're going to see them out much, and even then not all of them go to London!

Fair point about the mini tables in the back of the seats, they are quite reasonable. I still like a full-size table to spread out my stuff over (when you've got big fold-out maps the mini tables are just not good enough!), but I can still use a laptop on the mini tables which is quite good.

And so what if the scrapping of the restaurant car IS solely about money? I guess you havent noticed that the country is in the midst of a major economic downturn, the likes of which have apparently not been seen before. So, every company, every government body, every family, every person needs to make cutbacks. So maybe we should be grateful that NXEC has managed to find cost reductions which will not lead to a reduction in services!!!!

I agree with you there. Let NXEC abolish the restaurants if they must, I couldn't care less as on the one and only time I wanted the restaurant (London to Inverness) they didn't bother announcing it as available until Perth and by then we just could not be bothered!

But I do disagree that things have not been this bad before. Back in the 1930s it was an awful lot worse than this (I'm told!), that we haven't seen the worst of it yet.

However this jacking up of car parking charges I just can't agree with at all. It is another way to put people off travelling by train. And if you've got no choice but to get to the station by car then it's just not fair.

Whatever happens, I just do not like NXEC so I would not be sad to see the back of them. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a surcharge added to ticket prices if you're taking any luggage bar hand luggage with you when going on NXEC services before the end of 2009.

 

[yorkie]

And so what if the scrapping of the restaurant car IS solely about money?

So they should just admit it, and so should you!!!

I guess you havent noticed that the country is in the midst of a major economic downturn, the likes of which have apparently not been seen before. So, every company, every government body, every family, every person needs to make cutbacks. So maybe we should be grateful that NXEC has managed to find cost reductions which will not lead to a reduction in services!!!!

There's no way they can pay £1.4 billion without cutting services but that's going beyond the scope of this topic. They should be honest about the reason for cutbacks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree with you there. Let NXEC abolish the restaurants if they must, I couldn't care less as on the one and only time I wanted the restaurant (London to Inverness) they didn't bother announcing it as available until Perth and by then we just could not be bothered!

It wasn't advertised before because, in all probability, it was full, and they didn't want more people turning up only to turn them away.

 

[Techniquest]

Ah well, pointless having it really if it can only handle a dozen or so diners. FGW always gave up half of coach G to the Pullman on the 1130 SWA - PAD (back when it was a Pullman diner that is of course). Again, seems like laziness of GNER (as it was at the time) if they only wanted a handful of diners!

Never bothered again although having seen how much people are expected to pay for a miniscule dinner then I'm glad I didn't bother!

 

[richa2002]

GNER, lazy? What planet are you on? They brought the restaurants up to a proper standard, improved at-seat service in First Class and managed to roll Wi-fi out fleet wide before any other operator. That's hardly lazy.

How is because something is full it becomes pointless? That makes all commuter trains out of London pointless.

 

[1D53]

Certainly the only time I used the GNER restaurant for breakfast the whole first class carriage was reserved and used.

 

[Max]

All the recent improvements have been instigated by GNER:

• Wi-fi - installed by GNER (yes, made complimentary by NXEC but it was only a matter of time before this would have happened anyway.)
• Mallard Refurbishments - specification drawn up by GNER, I doubt it would have been of such a high quality if NXEC had designed it.
• Website and online booking engine - all created by GNER and rebranded into NXEC

Meanwhile, NXEC are cutting catering to a bare minimum, proposing charges for reservations, sacking booking office staff and cutting hours, planning to massively cut Doncaster services (despite this being a key interchange), and probably various other things that I have missed.

GNER weren't perfect, but they took real pride in their service. Instead of ridiculous, cheap tag-lines like 'making travel simpler', there was a service that had traditional railway values and customer service at it's heart. You always felt like you were on a special train when travelling GNER, a premier route. Now, with NXEC, you could just be travelling with any other soulless national corporation, with the same 'so-so' service, the same boring choice of catering. The only good things that are left are legacies of GNER - the high quality refurbishments, the attractive livery, the smart uniforms.

Frankly, this is nothing to do with overcrowding. Unlike in GNER days, the vast majority of NXEC services do not appear to suffer from overcrowding, and, as has been said already, there will be virtually no impact on any that may still exist if the restaurant is abolished. This is because only first class seats will be gained, and I'm fairly sure that overcrowding isn't a huge issue here. There are barely any restaurant services left thesedays anyway, after the mass cull in December 2008. The saddest thing, that nobody appears to have mentioned, is the loss of jobs. A move such as this would leave all chefs out of work, and will probably result in other on-board staff being axed.

Regarding FGW refurbishments, Techniquest/mrcheek, I simply cannot agree with you. Tables ARE wanted by young families, of which I happen to be a member. The lack of them now makes it impossible to sit together. More often than not, when we were travelling in the south west, tables were reserved for more than 1 group of people (2 couples for example), which seems extremely unfair as we had been given airline seats. On other occasions, one person sat would sit at tables. The fact that there are so few thesedays means that on such occasions, all tables can be taken up very easily.

 

[Donny Dave]

What it comes down to, is that NXEC are being greedy ....

By offering extra seats on all services, straight away they get a slightly bigger slice of the Orcats revenue for the ECML.

"More seats" available between London - Doncaster/York, so straight away, there's a reduction for Hull Trains and Grand Central. Between Doncaster and Leeds, Northern lose out. From Doncaster/York to Edinburgh, Cross Country, Northern and TPE all lose out.

Say the "extra seats" gain NXEC £30 million a year in Orcats revenue (figure plucked from thin air), plus the "savings" made from axing the restaurant service and getting rid of the associated staff and contracts, all adds up to a hefty amount towards their premium payments.

Come back GNER, all is forgiven!

 

[Techniquest]

OK, so when I said GNER were lazy that was the anti-GNER side of me rearing its ugly head again. But I have to say, and it pains me to do so, that GNER would be welcomed back even by me now we've suffered NXEC.

I have to agree you Max when you say that GNER made it feel kind of special. In a way, when David and I did London to Inverness and back it was a brilliant trip but felt really out of the ordinary for me. Possibly due to my extreme lack of travelling at all often with GNER, but it was a once in a lifetime journey for me and I'd probably never do it again now. Certainly not making the effort to do it with MTUs or with NXEC.

 

[1D53]

Under GNER when I used to go from Leeds to London (4 or 5 times a year) I always used to go to GNER both ways, almost religously. Since National Express came in I've barely used them. The last time I used Virgin down and National Express back, the time before I took East Midlands down and Hull Trains back.

 

[theblackwatch]

With the car parks, I'd rather people used buses/ local trains, to connect with NXEC.

Sadly, there isn't a train or bus which gets me the 20 miles to connect with the NXEC service from York, or will get me home when I catch anything later than the 20.00 off the Cross. If there was one I 'd use it - would you rather I didn't travel at all?

 

[tbtc]

And so what if the scrapping of the restaurant car IS solely about money? I guess you havent noticed that the country is in the midst of a major economic downturn, the likes of which have apparently not been seen before. So, every company, every government body, every family, every person needs to make cutbacks. So maybe we should be grateful that NXEC has managed to find cost reductions which will not lead to a reduction in services!!!!

Very true.

There's going to be fewer people in jobs, fewer business travel, and fewer expenses allowed by companies. I know that the national firm I work for have recently clamped down on "reasonable business expenses", meaning much less demand for a restaurant service on trains.

There's also many more eating opportunities these days - most big stations are full of competing food outlets.

Put it another way. Whilst a resturant is handy on certain journeys, each set does dozens of trips a week. The restaurant seating and additional food preperation area are sitting empty on most trips, plus the staff saving too.

It's a shame, but it's a realistic move in the current climate. If they were keeping resturants on most services for the benefit of a handful of their total passengers then that'd be pretty wasteful IMHO. Still, expect the usual criticism from the usual suspects...

 

[Daimler]

All the recent improvements have been instigated by GNER:

• Wi-fi - installed by GNER (yes, made complimentary by NXEC but it was only a matter of time before this would have happened anyway.)
• Mallard Refurbishments - specification drawn up by GNER, I doubt it would have been of such a high quality if NXEC had designed it.
• Website and online booking engine - all created by GNER and rebranded into NXEC

Meanwhile, NXEC are cutting catering to a bare minimum, proposing charges for reservations, sacking booking office staff and cutting hours, planning to massively cut Doncaster services (despite this being a key interchange), and probably various other things that I have missed.

GNER weren't perfect, but they took real pride in their service. Instead of ridiculous, cheap tag-lines like 'making travel simpler', there was a service that had traditional railway values and customer service at it's heart. You always felt like you were on a special train when travelling GNER, a premier route. Now, with NXEC, you could just be travelling with any other soulless national corporation, with the same 'so-so' service, the same boring choice of catering. The only good things that are left are legacies of GNER - the high quality refurbishments, the attractive livery, the smart uniforms.

Frankly, this is nothing to do with overcrowding. Unlike in GNER days, the vast majority of NXEC services do not appear to suffer from overcrowding, and, as has been said already, there will be virtually no impact on any that may still exist if the restaurant is abolished. This is because only first class seats will be gained, and I'm fairly sure that overcrowding isn't a huge issue here. There are barely any restaurant services left thesedays anyway, after the mass cull in December 2008. The saddest thing, that nobody appears to have mentioned, is the loss of jobs. A move such as this would leave all chefs out of work, and will probably result in other on-board staff being axed.

Regarding FGW refurbishments, Techniquest/mrcheek, I simply cannot agree with you. Tables ARE wanted by young families, of which I happen to be a member. The lack of them now makes it impossible to sit together. More often than not, when we were travelling in the south west, tables were reserved for more than 1 group of people (2 couples for example), which seems extremely unfair as we had been given airline seats. On other occasions, one person sat would sit at tables. The fact that there are so few thesedays means that on such occasions, all tables can be taken up very easily.

Hear hear! I can't think of much to add...

I went out of my way to travel GNER rather than some other route. Every time I hear something else about NXEC, I am enticed to do the opposite.

 

[richa2002]

Unfortunately though, they will blame the recession for the fall in passengers and not their own failings.

 

[devon_metro]

Regarding FGW refurbishments, Techniquest/mrcheek, I simply cannot agree with you. Tables ARE wanted by young families, of which I happen to be a member. The lack of them now makes it impossible to sit together. More often than not, when we were travelling in the south west, tables were reserved for more than 1 group of people (2 couples for example), which seems extremely unfair as we had been given airline seats. On other occasions, one person sat would sit at tables. The fact that there are so few thesedays means that on such occasions, all tables can be taken up very easily.

Down in the South West, each FGW HST should have 18 tables per standard class. If you have ever travelled on some of the busier services in the South West and M4 corridor, you will appreciate the loss of a few tables to facilitate extra people on an extremely busy route.

Besides, families contribute little to FGW, often on mega cheap advance purchase tickets, so you get what you pay for. If you need a table so bady, First Class has plenty! Besides, you don't get a table in a car

 

[90019]

Besides, you don't get a table in a car

Depends on the car