Poor late Sunday evening service for Wakefield Line

[anti-pacer]

Looking at RTT the last trains from Leeds serving Wakefield and parts of the district to the south leave by 2145 on Sundays. I find this ridiculous for such a populated area, part of a metropolitan county with a PTE (or whatever they are now) having an influence on services.

Do other similar areas have such poor evening provision?

Also, I've just seen the 2152 Doncaster-Leeds train pass in the distance and it looked like a Pacer. Is this normal for this service?

 

[Starmill]

It is very poor indeed but it is not so much earlier than the weekday times of the last trains. There is a 2217 to Sheffield which calls at several stations in the Wakefield area, including Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[anti-pacer]

It is very poor indeed but it is not so much earlier than the weekday times of the last trains. There is a 2217 to Sheffield which calls at several stations in the Wakefield area, including Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate.

The last train situation in West Yorkshire on many lines is shocking.

 

[njamescouk]

last train Sunday on the Barnsley - Huddersfield line is 19:39 ex Sheffield, which isn't too good.

 

[anti-pacer]

last train Sunday on the Barnsley - Huddersfield line is 19:39 ex Sheffield, which isn't too good.

That's appalling!

I had a a look at other Northern cities and it seems there's a big "Pennine divide". Manchester and Liverpool have much later services than Yorkshire's main cities, in general. From Leeds, anything south during the week leaves before 11pm.

 

[yorksrob]

There is a notable problem with evening services, or lack thereof in Yorkshire. Unfortunately, even with the recent round of consultations and franchise changes, the improvements suggested are a case of too little, too late.

 

[bradders1983]

Havent they cited "anti social behaviour" as a reason for some late night services not running?

 

[anti-pacer]

Havent they cited "anti social behaviour" as a reason for some late night services not running?

It's always been the case. Same with buses.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The last train from Huddersfield to to Leeds via Bradford goes at 2105 which if you miss it, its the case of walk it.

The 1939 Sheffield to Huddersfield is one service which I think should be improved surely there's space for a service at 2200 fast to Barnsley then all stops Huddersfield or better still through to Leeds via Bradford.

Ever since the PTE was scrapped in 2014 there has been a slow but steady and almost visible decline on the transport front in West Yorkshire - take the West Yorkshire rail timetable book - scrapped after many years. It won't improve until the Combined Authourity itself is scrapped and replaced with five joint transport departments dealt with though the Five Councils - at least I know I'd be getting my moneys worth on the council tax should that ever happen. Better still a resurection of the West Yorkshire Public Transport Committee may be the way to go so that improvements can be made.

 

[Mag_seven]

The examples quoted here should be relayed to the poor wee lambs in London and the SE who are complaining about a reduction in the number of post midnight trains:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=146247

 

[johntea]

The strange thing is going the other way on a Sunday you could go to Nottingham only having to leave at 21:33 for a full stopper service to Sheffield then on to Leeds via Castleford!

 

[yorksrob]

The last train from Huddersfield to to Leeds via Bradford goes at 2105 which if you miss it, its the case of walk it.

The 1939 Sheffield to Huddersfield is one service which I think should be improved surely there's space for a service at 2200 fast to Barnsley then all stops Huddersfield or better still through to Leeds via Bradford.

Ever since the PTE was scrapped in 2014 there has been a slow but steady and almost visible decline on the transport front in West Yorkshire - take the West Yorkshire rail timetable book - scrapped after many years. It won't improve until the Combined Authourity itself is scrapped and replaced with five joint transport departments dealt with though the Five Councils - at least I know I'd be getting my moneys worth on the council tax should that ever happen. Better still a resurection of the West Yorkshire Public Transport Committee may be the way to go so that improvements can be made.

The scrapping of the timetable booklet was a massive step backwards. I wrote in and complained.

 

[njamescouk]

Havent they cited "anti social behaviour" as a reason for some late night services not running?

was worried about that myself, but last service any day of week v quiet, people getting blind drunk Fri / Sat get taxis. sheff / Barnsley / Huddersfield football services can be a bit obnoxious though.

 

[mildertduck]

It's not just Yorkshire:
During the week the last train South from Newcastle is at 2248.
On a Saturday, it's 2155.
On a Sunday, it's 2158.

This honestly puts me off going to the theatre in Newcastle on a weekend, as the only way home is bus (nightbus runs until 4am, but I suffer from motion sickness on buses), or driving.

It's not as if there isn't a demand for services... just no willingness to run them.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not just Yorkshire:
During the week the last train South from Newcastle is at 2248.
On a Saturday, it's 2155.
On a Sunday, it's 2158.

This honestly puts me off going to the theatre in Newcastle on a weekend, as the only way home is bus (nightbus runs until 4am, but I suffer from motion sickness on buses), or driving.

It's not as if there isn't a demand for services... just no willingness to run them.

This is true. We have this splendid new music venue in Leeds. Before it even opened, I asked LCC how people were expected to get home, given it's about fifteen minutes walk from the station and many last trains from Leeds leave at 22:30 - 23:00. I did get to see Fleetwood Mac there recently and with running just about managed the last train (to Wakefield mind, the train to my local station had long since finished).

It's not really acceptable for a modern cultural centre, and harking back to anti-social problems forty years ago doesn't really cut it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Some of this is down to stabling locations:- Huddersfield direct has a later last stopper than several other routes due to several units overnighting in the sidings there, not to mention the rather useful overnight TPE services.

For the OP, I noticed today that Arriva in Wakefield are advertising a last bus from Leeds at 0105 (route N10, a night-time version of the 110).

 

[yorksrob]

On the Hallam line if you really didn't want to continue through to Barnsley, you could always loop back to Leeds via Outwood (or simply reverse at Kirkgate).

 

[xotGD]

Trains after 9 o'clock at night? Luxury!

The last train from Darlo to Bishop Auckland is the 20:32.

Fancy a night out - catch the bus home, and cross your legs!

 

[bearhugger]

Last service on a Sunday from Middlesbrough to Whitby is 16:17. Last service from Whitby is 18:04. And there was no service from November to March most years for a lot of years on the Esk Valley line, apparently from this year there will be a continuous service all year round.

 

[yorksrob]

Last service on a Sunday from Middlesbrough to Whitby is 16:17. Last service from Whitby is 18:04. And there was no service from November to March most years for a lot of years on the Esk Valley line, apparently from this year there will be a continuous service all year round.

As a regular user of the Whitby line, I would agree that there needs to be a step change in service provision on that line.

 

[railfan100]

I recall a day when Wakefield had a regular service to Manchester, in the late 80's some services extended to Holyhead and Bangor as well as other parts of the Wales coast. Really sad to see what the service is today.

 

[Starmill]

As a regular user of the Whitby line, I would agree that there needs to be a step change in service provision on that line.

I don't think one is likely. There is a franchise commitment to all-year Sunday service, and I understand that the Sunday service that has now begun will not end again. Other than that one extra trip arriving in Middlesbrough before 0900 with the possibility of one more return journey on top is likely to be all the line sees in the near future.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think one is likely. There is a franchise commitment to all-year Sunday service, and I understand that the Sunday service that has now begun will not end again. Other than that one extra trip arriving in Middlesbrough before 0900 with the possibility of one more return journey on top is likely to be all the line sees in the near future.

One of the many things that haven't been properly addressed in the latest franchise round.

 

[30907]

I recall a day when Wakefield had a regular service to Manchester, in the late 80's some services extended to Holyhead and Bangor as well as other parts of the Wales coast. Really sad to see what the service is today.

Apart from the Manchester service, the others were presumably for operational convenience - as indeed were the 2-hourly Transpennine services to Chester and beyond.

Which route from Wakefield is significantly different from the late 80's?

 

[bearhugger]

I don't think one is likely. There is a franchise commitment to all-year Sunday service, and I understand that the Sunday service that has now begun will not end again. Other than that one extra trip arriving in Middlesbrough before 0900 with the possibility of one more return journey on top is likely to be all the line sees in the near future.

Going off topic, it's all gone quiet on the extra services that were going to happen with this new mine that was proposed. I think a late service leaving Whitby at 22:15, certainly on Friday and Saturday evenings would be beneficial. The loadings from the music trains during the summer show there would be a reasonable usage.

 

[Andyh82]

This is true. We have this splendid new music venue in Leeds. Before it even opened, I asked LCC how people were expected to get home, given it's about fifteen minutes walk from the station and many last trains from Leeds leave at 22:30 - 23:00. I did get to see Fleetwood Mac there recently and with running just about managed the last train (to Wakefield mind, the train to my local station had long since finished).

It's not really acceptable for a modern cultural centre, and harking back to anti-social problems forty years ago doesn't really cut it.

The rail industry is like turning an oil tanker, it takes years, and the franchise specification format means there is no flexibility.

Every 8 years or so they may consider later trains but in reality it is a minor consideration compared to seats and frequencies at peak times, so will get a footnote at most.

Note there are pretty much no night buses in West Yorks either. Interesting that towns like Nottingham and Newcastle get night services but nothing in Leeds.

 

[Starmill]

Leeds has for many years had overnight bus service to Headingley and a little beyond to the ring road from First. A single route of course is very poor indeed for a city of this size. There have been some recent additions in the form of services to Keighley, York and Harrogate (Transdev) and Wakefield (Arriva). Are these still running?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The Wakey one is still running.

 

[railfan100]

Apart from the Manchester service, the others were presumably for operational convenience - as indeed were the 2-hourly Transpennine services to Chester and beyond.

Which route from Wakefield is significantly different from the late 80's?

Looks very different to me, I have most BR National timetables from 1986-1994 and there were at times many through workings from Wakefield that I am sure were useful. Why has the Manchester service ended up non-existent? Surely people in Wakefield would have found it a useful service.

 

[ffm]

One of the many things that haven't been properly addressed in the latest franchise round.

To be fair the all year Sunday service and early morning one were addressed in the latest franchise round, after that - well Whitby isn't that big a centre of population and transporting more drunks back to Teesside is hardly a rationale for a later service to Smoggyland, look how bad the late Saturday service is for trouble already.....