Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

[D365]

It could be to obtain spares for the 373s that will remain

Well I don't know for what other purpose the components would be needed...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Well I don't know for what other purpose the components would be needed...

Some of the spares might also be useable on SNCFs older TGVs

 

[D365]

Some of the spares might also be useable on SNCFs older TGVs

To be more specific, I meant that the only reasons for stripping components would be for reuse, melting down separately or to keep some as 'souveniers'.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Some of the spares might also be usable on SNCFs older TGVs

True, but given that large numbers of the original TGVs have been withdrawn is it not likely that SNCF already have sufficient spare parts for their own needs?

 

[antharro]

It could be recycling to a "higher" standard. Consider car recycling - the Japanese strip down their cars pretty far before baling the remaining body/chassis. Fluids out, air con gas out, wiring out, plastics out, electronics out, engine and box out, etc, etc. Compare with the USA which still, in 2017, allows some states to rip engines out letting fluids drain into the ground, release air con gases into the atmosphere, etc, then bail the remains, preferring to try to sort out the post-shred mess. The Japanese end up with a cleaner, purer stream of recyclable material, whereas the Americans end up with a higher percentage of post-shred waste. (We're somewhere in between them - not quite as good as the Japanese but not as bad as some places in the USA!)

So it could be something like this where the end product is of higher quality (and therefore worth more) than if it had been ripped apart by a grab.

 

[33Hz]

True, but given that large numbers of the original TGVs have been withdrawn is it not likely that SNCF already have sufficient spare parts for their own needs?

The withdrawn PSE sets are more than ten years older than the Eurostar TMSTs and a whole generation of technology different.

There will shortly be a whole load of TGV Atlantique sets getting replaced too, but those too are older than the TMST although have more in common with it. For example, the PSE sets have DC traction motors whereas the Atlantique and TMST ones are AC, like the later Réseau which is still going to be in service for a while.

The signalling system on the TMST is the same as the later generation of Réseau and Thalys TGVs too, so that might find a new home with them.

 

[59CosG95]

For example, the PSE sets have DC traction motors whereas the Atlantique and TMST ones are AC, like the later Réseau which is still going to be in service for a while.

The signalling system on the TMST is the same as the later generation of Réseau and Thalys TGVs too, so that might find a new home with them.

Almost correct regarding the traction motors; while both are AC, the Atlantique's motors are synchronous, as opposed to the asychronous ones on the 373s. Some of the Réseau sets are being withdrawn as well (the single-deck ones; AFAIK no Réseau-Duplex sets have been withdrawn yet).

Good point on the signalling system though.

 

[TimboM]

It could be recycling to a "higher" standard. Consider car recycling - the Japanese strip down their cars pretty far before baling the remaining body/chassis. Fluids out, air con gas out, wiring out, plastics out, electronics out, engine and box out, etc, etc. Compare with the USA which still, in 2017, allows some states to rip engines out letting fluids drain into the ground, release air con gases into the atmosphere, etc, then bail the remains, preferring to try to sort out the post-shred mess. The Japanese end up with a cleaner, purer stream of recyclable material, whereas the Americans end up with a higher percentage of post-shred waste. (We're somewhere in between them - not quite as good as the Japanese but not as bad as some places in the USA!)

So it could be something like this where the end product is of higher quality (and therefore worth more) than if it had been ripped apart by a grab.

This was my thinking - with also an element of it being a (comparatively) modern machine with more components/materials involved - so a more careful dismantling to maximise recycling/scrap value of the constituent parts, rather than just trashing it into a heap and hoping it'd be mostly steel...

 

[AlanFry1]

How about moving some of the 373s to ease congestion on the Enfield Town, Cheshunt to Liverpool Street lines? 317s are failing all across, sometimes feel they are going to fall apart. 373s will help ease congestion. Not as daft as it sounds!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How about moving some of the 373s to ease congestion on the Enfield Town, Cheshunt to Liverpool Street lines? 317s are failing all across, sometimes feel they are going to fall apart. 373s will help ease congestion. Not as daft as it sounds!

That would probably need a fairly major upgrade to the OLE and the power feeds to the OLE to avoid overloading the OLE. They might also be too long , taking up too many signalling sections, possibly reducing overall capacity

 

[D365]

Not as daft as it sounds!

Err... yes it is.

That would probably need a fairly major upgrade to the OLE and the power feeds to the OLE to avoid overloading the OLE. They might also be too long , taking up too many signalling sections, possibly reducing overall capacity

We've been through it many times, infrastructure is the least of the problems.

 

[59CosG95]

How about moving some of the 373s to ease congestion on the Enfield Town, Cheshunt to Liverpool Street lines? 317s are failing all across, sometimes feel they are going to fall apart. 373s will help ease congestion. Not as daft as it sounds!

Nope. Just no. 317s are fairly light, 4-coach trains with distributed traction motors, very quick off the mark.
373s meanwhile, heavy, 18-coach trains with 2 powercars (where the traction motors are concentrated), and as has been said many times, need a huge amount of tractive effort to get the thing moving. They are also very sluggish. Sure, the 373 may beat a 317 in a race to Paris, but from Liverpool Street to Hackney Downs, the 317 will win, hands down.

Case. Closed.

Now, moving 365s to replace the 317s may not seem like such a bad idea, but that is a discussion for another thread.

 

[D365]

Nope. Just no. 317s are fairly light, 4-coach trains with distributed traction motors fitted only to the one motor coach, very quick fairly slow by any standard off the mark.

Now, moving 365s to replace the 317s may not seem like such a bad idea, but that is a discussion for another thread.

The Class 317s are being fully replaced by the Class 720 Aventras, so I'm not sure why it even needs discussion.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Err... yes it is.
We've been through it many times, infrastructure is the least of the problems.

This. They are bespoke and highly complex trains that were built for the purpose of operating through the Channel Tunnel and travelling at sustained high speeds. The use of these by GNER inter-city services in the early noughties wasn't exactly a glittering success so the use of using them on outer-suburban routes is positively ludicrous…

 

[sk688]

How about moving some of the 373s to ease congestion on the Enfield Town, Cheshunt to Liverpool Street lines? 317s are failing all across, sometimes feel they are going to fall apart. 373s will help ease congestion. Not as daft as it sounds!

Absolutely . Just line all the 373's up nose to nose: , make them walk through and add travelators so the passengers can make their journey

 

[jopsuk]

Not as daft as it sounds!

Oh so, very, very wrong. In fact, even dafter than it sounds

 

[Southern Dvr]

The only place that you could use them really would be South Eastern High Speed in the rush hours as 75% of the route is what they do already. But refitting shoe gear and traction training etc.. really makes that unfeasible as well.

 

[AlanFry1]

Nope. Just no. 317s are fairly light, 4-coach trains with distributed traction motors, very quick off the mark.
373s meanwhile, heavy, 18-coach trains with 2 powercars (where the traction motors are concentrated), and as has been said many times, need a huge amount of tractive effort to get the thing moving. They are also very sluggish. Sure, the 373 may beat a 317 in a race to Paris, but from Liverpool Street to Hackney Downs, the 317 will win, hands down.

Case. Closed.

Now, moving 365s to replace the 317s may not seem like such a bad idea, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Well I heard that 365s are not allowed on that route?

 

[physics34]

How about moving some of the 373s to ease congestion on the Enfield Town, Cheshunt to Liverpool Street lines? 317s are failing all across, sometimes feel they are going to fall apart. 373s will help ease congestion. Not as daft as it sounds!

why suggest this when there are 365s and will be spare 319s around...

 

[D365]

why suggest this when there are 365s and will be spare 319s around...

There's 365s spare already? In any case the additional 317s are on their way over.

 

[Darandio]

why suggest this when there are 365s and will be spare 319s around...

First, notice that they are on post moderation. Then take a look at their posting history, you'll see why.

 

[physics34]

There's 365s spare already? In any case the additional 317s are on their way over.

sorry i mistyped....shouldve said "will be spare"

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The only place that you could use them really would be South Eastern High Speed in the rush hours as 75% of the route is what they do already. But refitting shoe gear and traction training etc.. really makes that unfeasible as well.

Except that they won't fit into the platforms on the SouthEastern side of St Pancras.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Except that they won't fit into the platforms on the SouthEastern side of St Pancras.

And there's that too!

 

[jopsuk]

Except that they won't fit into the platforms on the SouthEastern side of St Pancras.

the same goes for the domestic platforms at Stratford International, Ebbsfleet and Ashford, not to mention all the other stations on the classic network in Kent.

 

[33Hz]

And the reason they couldn't have been shortened? Surely a power car could be coupled to the split section of coach 9? Or even have less coaches in the rake like the NoL sets.

What would stop them using the GWML when that project is finished?

 

[skyhigh]

What would stop them using the GWML when that project is finished?

The fact that several of the sets are now little pieces littering the area around Tamworth might be a slight issue...

 

[Driveroopnorth]

Not my picture.... ... sad to see them in this state...

 

[Ash Bridge]

Excellent shot, thanks for posting, I'm curious about the pair of 08s on the front of the 2 pairs of back to back powercars, wonder are they used to position the PCs for final scrapping, then when released bring in the next ones or are they scrappers themselves? Obviously a different technique used for the articulated trailer cars as the body shells appear to have been lifted of their running gear before commencing the breaking up.

 

[adc82140]

That has to be the tidiest scrapyard I've ever seen.