Oxford 'not part of Chiltern network'

[mattdickinson]

On Sunday I travelled from Marylebone to Oxford on Chiltern Railways. I have a Z2-6 Travelcard on my Oyster issued by Chiltern at Marylebone. This entitles me to free travel anywhere on the Chiltern network at weekends. When I reached Oxford the man at the gateline said that as a GWR station they were not part of the Chiltern network. I was forced to buy a single from Oxford Parkway to Oxford.


I have made a complaint to Chiltern and to GWR...

 

[gordonthemoron]

Isn't Peterborough also not part of Greater Anglia for similar dubious reasons?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Oxford gateline have a habit of making up completely spurious fares rules and GWR need to get a grip (pun unintended).

 

[Joe Paxton]

On Sunday I travelled from Marylebone to Oxford on Chiltern Railways. I have a Z2-6 Travelcard on my Oyster issued by Chiltern at Marylebone. This entitles me to free travel anywhere on the Chiltern network at weekends. When I reached Oxford the man at the gateline said that as a GWR station they were not part of the Chiltern network. I was forced to buy a single from Oxford Parkway to Oxford.

I have made a complaint to Chiltern and to GWR...

I'd imagine it's the complaint to Chiltern that may well actually result in some action.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd imagine it's the complaint to Chiltern that may well actually result in some action.

Agreed.

I love how some railway staff just make stuff up.

 

[Merseysider]

Agreed.

I love how some railway staff just make stuff up.

The majority of staff from the majority of TOCs are fine.

What is it with GWR getting it wrong so often? They seem to be mentioned far more than other TOCs.

 

[PeterC]

What is it with GWR getting it wrong so often? They seem to be mentioned far more than other TOCs.

That does suggest that incorrect information is being cascaded from management rather than GWR staff being particularly bloody minded.

 

[gray1404]

I've been told at Oxford gateline and refused exit that I could not break my return journey on a Liverpool Stations to London Terminals Off Peak Return. The reason was that I was not travelling the right way to Liverpool. They called over a RPI who tried to PF me based on the journey from Paddington. When I involved the station supervisor they backed down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been told at Oxford gateline and refused exit that I could not break my return journey on a Liverpool Stations to London Terminals Off Peak Return. The reason was that I was not travelling the right way to Liverpool. They called over a RPI who tried to PF me based on the journey from Paddington. When I involved the station supervisor they backed down.

This kind of thing gets my goat, as it just took me 10 seconds with nationalrail.co.uk to confirm that it is a Permitted Route. Barrier staff could do precisely the same in the event of a passenger querying them. But many instead prefer to throw their weight around.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've been told at Oxford gateline and refused exit that I could not break my return journey on a Liverpool Stations to London Terminals Off Peak Return. The reason was that I was not travelling the right way to Liverpool. They called over a RPI who tried to PF me based on the journey from Paddington. When I involved the station supervisor they backed down.

Just dumb.

I find there's a significant risk of staff on stations to be a complete hindrance when I travel and avoid them where possible.

 

[Segedunum]

On trains, we also have the GWR RPI who went to issue me a Penalty Fare because my Thames Branches Ranger was issued at Newcastle.

When I told her she was being ridiculous, she eventually backed away with murmurs of "it just confused me"

Sent from my LG-K350 using Tapatalk

 

[Greenback]

There seems to be soemthign wrong with GWR's trainign and support for front line gateline employees. I'm sure that this is compunded by mess room talk and misinformation from peers, but GWR really needs to sort things out.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The sooner the DFT insists that when staff make "honest mistakes" the TOC involved is obliged to reimburse the customer with the fare paid plus a Penalty equal to or greater than the penalty they charge their customers when they make "honest mistakes", the better. That would be equitable.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

That does suggest that incorrect information is being cascaded from management rather than GWR staff being particularly bloody minded.

TBH, Oxford have been obstructive since Thames Trains days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH, Oxford have been obstructive since Thames Trains days.

A lot of these issues are the biggest argument against TUPE that one could imagine. You basically have no way of getting rid of these people. And they know it.

 

[MikeWh]

A lot of these issues are the biggest argument against TUPE that one could imagine. You basically have no way of getting rid of these people. And they know it.

Whoa!

You really don't want to go down that route.

 

[GW43125]

On trains, we also have the GWR RPI who went to issue me a Penalty Fare because my Thames Branches Ranger was issued at Newcastle.

When I told her she was being ridiculous, she eventually backed away with murmurs of "it just confused me"

Sent from my LG-K350 using Tapatalk

Reminds me of the time I had to convince the guard of a bedwyn stopper that my Thames rover was valid even though "it doesn't say bedwyn"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whoa!

You really don't want to go down that route.

I certainly believe it to be a big problem that when you have staff who won't learn you can't get rid of them, and that when you recontract an operation you can't actually change the substantial makeup of the company. There needs to be good employee protection but equally there needs to be a way to get rid of genuinely bad staff.

I don't know what the answer is. I wouldn't want it US-style, either. In any case it's one for a separate thread if anyone does want to pursue that discussion further I guess.

OTOH, the prevalence of this in certain TOCs but much less in others (GWR and GTR seem notable, while even fellow Govia TOC LM seems rather superior in terms of customer facing staff quality, give or take the odd one like one specific member of the Watford Jn ticket office staff - not the one who posts here!) would seem to suggest it's mostly just grossly bad management and training.

 

[district]

My ethos when working on gatelines is that if I'm in any doubt as to the validity of a ticket, I should always err on the side of the passenger and let them travel, and then look the ticket up myself so I know for next time. I will only ever refuse travel if I am 100% sure a ticket is invalid, as standing my ground to then be proved wrong is very embarrassing!

 

[Bletchleyite]

My ethos when working on gatelines is that if I'm in any doubt as to the validity of a ticket, I should always err on the side of the passenger and let them travel, and then look the ticket up myself so I know for next time. I will only ever refuse travel if I am 100% sure a ticket is invalid, as standing my ground to then be proved wrong is very embarrassing!

You are clearly an excellent member of staff who really cares about passengers and his job - can we have more like you please?

 

[Sprinter153]

I think I've suggested before on these august pages that the retail training is poor. Restriction codes certainly didn't feature in the course when I did it. Also the staff delivering the courses are mostly not from a revenue background (they just teach customer service generally) so haven't got the foggiest.
I remember laughing out loud when discounts were covered on the exam and they implied, with terrible examples, that the fares would be discounted to figures that aren't multiples of 5p (e.g. £1.63).
To this day I'm ironing out naughty habits that have been taught by the revenue trainers...

 

[35B]

I certainly believe it to be a big problem that when you have staff who won't learn you can't get rid of them, and that when you recontract an operation you can't actually change the substantial makeup of the company. There needs to be good employee protection but equally there needs to be a way to get rid of genuinely bad staff.

I don't know what the answer is. I wouldn't want it US-style, either. In any case it's one for a separate thread if anyone does want to pursue that discussion further I guess.

OTOH, the prevalence of this in certain TOCs but much less in others (GWR and GTR seem notable, while even fellow Govia TOC LM seems rather superior in terms of customer facing staff quality, give or take the odd one like one specific member of the Watford Jn ticket office staff - not the one who posts here!) would seem to suggest it's mostly just grossly bad management and training.

There are plenty of ways companies can drive change if they're motivated to do so. The existence of TUPE is a complete irrelevance, especially as any incomer would otherwise have to contend with either a completely new workforce or trying to work out who the good, the bad and the ugly are while having no visibility of their day to day conduct.


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[Ianno87]

I certainly believe it to be a big problem that when you have staff who won't learn you can't get rid of them, and that when you recontract an operation you can't actually change the substantial makeup of the company. There needs to be good employee protection but equally there needs to be a way to get rid of genuinely bad staff.

I don't know what the answer is. I wouldn't want it US-style, either. In any case it's one for a separate thread if anyone does want to pursue that discussion further I guess.

OTOH, the prevalence of this in certain TOCs but much less in others (GWR and GTR seem notable, while even fellow Govia TOC LM seems rather superior in terms of customer facing staff quality, give or take the odd one like one specific member of the Watford Jn ticket office staff - not the one who posts here!) would seem to suggest it's mostly just grossly bad management and training.

Total can of worms there. Not worth opening.

"Ordinary" disciplinary procedures and regular management reviews should be there to handle and manage/deal with poor performance, not the TOC/franchise handover process. The two *must* be independent from each other.

There's a risk that people who just happen to be performing poorly in their jobs at a franchise change (possibly through no fault of their own - e.g. poor training) are effectively discriminated against. Or poor 'management' levels using it as an excuse just to chuck out the people they don't like. Risk of allsorts of unfair dismissal being created.

 

[centraluser]

Off-Peak tickets from London to Oxford are valid on the 0609 departure from Marylebone (but not then until the 0900). Not valid until from 0920 from Paddington. The cause of much angst when the staff at Oxford claim the tickets are not valid.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/j9

In terms of the original query, the Chiltern offer is of course valid at Oxford though as implied by others, successful briefing of the barrier staff at the station might prove interesting. Proving the ticket was purchased at Marylebone will be aided if the op obtained an appropriately stamped season ticket leaflet from Marylebone - that process is designed to assist Oyster customers for whom the offer applies.

 

[island]

I had no issues using my Z1-3 annual Travelcard to get out and in at Oxford last month. I guess some gateline attendants haven't been briefed since Chiltern started to serve Oxford.

 

[gnolife]

Hasn't Oxford technically been part of the Chiltern network for years now, with its one service each night from Stratford-Upon-Avon?

 

[Agent_c]

A lot of these issues are the biggest argument against TUPE that one could imagine. You basically have no way of getting rid of these people. And they know it.

TUPE is a paper tiger even where it does impact, and despite popular belief it doesn't stop you removing staff for capability issues, like continuing to provide incorrect information.

 

[najaB]

TUPE is a paper tiger even where it does impact, and despite popular belief it doesn't stop you removing staff for capability issues, like continuing to provide incorrect information.

I don't even see the relevance of TUPE to this thread. It would only enter the picture once every ten years or so at time of franchise handover. Standard performance management is a continuous process.

 

[WattWatt000]

Going back to the original post - did the op present their paper record card in regards to the oyster card to the staff on the gateline?

This is stated in the terms and conditions of the Chiltern Railways season ticket deal -

"If your Season Ticket is on an Oyster card you must also have your paper record card to travel free at weekends and Bank Holidays. This offer does not apply on Christmas Day and Boxing Day."

https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/new-customers

As for staff not knowing whats going on, who knows that Chiltern have actually briefed GWR staff on this offer?

 

[centraluser]

I had no issues using my Z1-3 annual Travelcard to get out and in at Oxford last month. I guess some gateline attendants haven't been briefed since Chiltern started to serve Oxford.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, a Zone 1-3 Annual Travelcard is not valid for the offer,as there is no Chiltern journey for which that ticket is ordinarily valid.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123210