Was i too old at interview to be a train driver?

[Tom2111]

Hi. Gone all through tests and finally had managers' interview Tuesday just gone. Unfortunately I failed, I found out today, and am disappointed.

The interview went well I thought. I'd done my homework on the Southeastern website and this one, talked to drivers and platform staff to find out information. I answered all the questions well I believe. But one of the questions was, what is your date of birth?

There may well be a genuine reason for this of course, but being 56 years old I'm a bit sceptical when asked at interview. I told them the truth.

These are some of my working experiences: I worked as a service engineer between 2000 and 2005 on 465, 466 and 376 rolling stock and was promoted whilst there and obtained an HNC in electronic engineering. I was a full time firefighter for 10 years.

I've got loads of maths, science and engineering qualifications right up to this year from Open University.

I volunteered for AGE UK because I care about people and enjoyed it. I've got loads of experience dealing with people/customers in other employment and what I do now.

I would appreciate some advice on whether its worth reapplying or not if possible. I have asked them for feedback.

Cheers. Tom

 

[Darandio]

I'm confused, you are sceptical that they asked you your date of birth, and then had to make a judgement on whether to tell them the truth? hock:

Imagine what would have happened had you lied, then been offered the job....

 

[ExRes]

What I find difficult to understand is, if they have rejected you on age grounds, why on earth you were invited as far as interview stage, you must surely have been required to give your date of birth earlier in the process

 

[Tom2111]

What I find difficult to understand is, if they have rejected you on age grounds, why on earth you were invited as far as interview stage, you must surely have been required to give your date of birth earlier in the process

Guess so. But equally you could say if they already had the info, why ask I spose.

 

[Tom2111]

I'm confused, you are sceptical that they asked you your date of birth, and then had to make a judgement on whether to tell them the truth? hock:

Imagine what would have happened had you lied, then been offered the job....

Interesting, yes. I wonder what would have happened.

 

[Darandio]

Interesting, yes. I wonder what would have happened.

I'm sure you know the answer anyway, but if I was in charge of recruitment your job offer would be rescinded. Any competent person in recruitment should do the same.

In terms of how it was asked, did they ask you to confirm your date of birth? It's not really unusual at all.

 

[Tom2111]

I'm sure you know the answer anyway, but if I was in charge of recruitment your job offer would be rescinded. Any competent person in recruitment should do the same.

In terms of how it was asked, did they ask you to confirm your date of birth? It's not really unusual at all.

I don't think he said 'confirm' but cant honestly remember. I know I had to take photo ID so I took my passport, but no one asked to look at it.

 

[dazzayid]

Southern have just taken on a trainee who is 58 so don't think age matters anymore

 

[Bromley boy]

Hi. Gone all through tests and finally had managers' interview Tuesday just gone. Unfortunately I failed, I found out today, and am disappointed.

The interview went well I thought. I'd done my homework on the Southeastern website and this one, talked to drivers and platform staff to find out information. I answered all the questions well I believe. But one of the questions was, what is your date of birth?

There may well be a genuine reason for this of course, but being 56 years old I'm a bit sceptical when asked at interview. I told them the truth.

These are some of my working experiences: I worked as a service engineer between 2000 and 2005 on 465, 466 and 376 rolling stock and was promoted whilst there and obtained an HNC in electronic engineering. I was a full time firefighter for 10 years.

I've got loads of maths, science and engineering qualifications right up to this year from Open University.

I volunteered for AGE UK because I care about people and enjoyed it. I've got loads of experience dealing with people/customers in other employment and what I do now.

I would appreciate some advice on whether its worth reapplying or not if possible. I have asked them for feedback.

Cheers. Tom

I can safely say, in my experience, age isn't a factor. There was a bloke on my course in his mid fifties, plus quite a few recently passed out/trainee drivers in their forties and fifties.

Sorry to hear it mate. Looking on the bright side, you got to DM interview, so at least you've still got your "lives" intact if you were to apply to another TOC in the future. Most likely you just didn't click with the interviewers on a personal level. Unfortunately there is an element of luck involved there, however good your past experience.

Just to be clear, are you saying you were specifically asked for your date of birth during the interview? That seems highly irregular, I must say.*

*EDIT: and something HR would be down on like a ton of bricks.

 

[Tom2111]

Southern have just taken on a trainee who is 58 so don't think age matters anymore

Ok then. I'll see what the feedback is and try again. Cheers.

 

[Tom2111]

I can safely say, in my experience, age isn't a factor. There was a bloke on my course in his mid fifties, plus quite a few recently passed out/trainee drivers in their forties and fifties.

Sorry to hear it mate. Looking on the bright side, you got to DM interview, so at least you've still got your "lives" intact if you were to apply to another TOC in the future. Most likely you just didn't click with the interviewers on a personal level. Unfortunately there is an element of luck involved there, however good your past experience.

Just to be clear, are you saying you were specifically asked for your date of birth during the interview? That seems highly irregular, I must say.*

*EDIT: and something HR would be down on like a ton of bricks.

Yes. I was asked specifically my date of birth. I had it before when I went for interview with BT.

I'll have a look at feedback and might have another go.

I was told that including wages, it takes £104,000 to train a driver. It does make sense the younger you are the cheaper it is really.

 

[Andy-mc]

age isn't a factor at all. As long as you are physically fit and can give 5+ years service to make their investment in you worth while there isn't an issue.

You're age would have been part of the application so I doubt they would have gone through the expense of assessments and the interview if they didn't think you could have been suitable

Like someone els on here, someone on my course had 2 people in their mid to late 50's

 

[Tom2111]

age isn't a factor at all. As long as you are physically fit and can give 5+ years service to make their investment in you worth while there isn't an issue.

You're age would have been part of the application so I doubt they would have gone through the expense of assessments and the interview if they didn't think you could have been suitable

Like someone els on here, someone on my course had 2 people in their mid to late 50's

Ok. Thanks. I've spoken to train drivers who have failed managers' interview and been successful second time including one who was already a train driver on another company. I'll have a look at the feedback and probably have another go.

 

[emzy_007]

I was not asked my DOB - you would have already supplied your DOB on your application form so it is irrelevant for them to ask you.

 

[ComUtoR]

I was not asked my DOB - you would have already supplied your DOB on your application form so it is irrelevant for them to ask you.

But they still ask for ID to be brought and still asked the question. It clearly isn't irrelevant.

 

[Need2]

But they still ask for ID to be brought and still asked the question. It clearly isn't irrelevant.

I've never been asked for my DOB or to bring ANY form or ID to ANY interview.
The only time i've been asked for ID is at the assessment/test's stage.
(Have been interviewed for gateline, RO2, Guard and Driver 3 times)

 

[ComUtoR]

I've never been asked for my DOB or to bring ANY form or ID to ANY interview.

I don't think he said 'confirm' but cant honestly remember. I know I had to take photo ID so I took my passport, but no one asked to look at it.

The point still stand though. The question was asked at interview. Therefore, the interviewer felt it relevant to ask.

One of the reasons why an interviewer will ask for ID is because you may have got someone else to sit the interview for you or to indeed, as stated, to confirm your details.

There is no way the OP failed due to age. That would be discrimination and against the law. I highly doubt that SE would even state that as the reason for failure as they would be open for prosecution.

When I started the oldest applicant was 55yrs old. That was many moons ago and the world has moved on since. We have many people around that age recently applied and were successful.

 

[Darandio]

I've never been asked for my DOB or to bring ANY form or ID to ANY interview.

Then i'm fairly certain you haven't ever been involved in any form of recruitment.

This isn't specific to the railway, it's far from unusual these days for people to pay others to attend an interview.

 

[47802]

Then i'm fairly certain you haven't ever been involved in any form of recruitment.

This isn't specific to the railway, it's far from unusual these days for people to pay others to attend an interview.

Indeed so

But from the age perspective while I cannot speak for the rail industry in many other industries I suspect age discrimination is still rife although of course some other reason will be given.

I have to say the last rail industry interview I went to which was for a part time gateline operative I felt the interviewer in view of my age and being on the chubby side gave the impression that he didn't think I could stand for long periods, he mentioned it a lot and this was despite the fact that at the time I was doing a temp job which required me to stand for 8 hours a day up to 4 hours at a time, and as you might expect I didn't get the job.

 

[emzy_007]

You have already provided your DOB on the application form and, as you have said, on the ID you have brought with you. So why ask again?

 

[beany]

They obviously know your age,sounds like Maybe the interviewer was hoping you would of replied with your DOB then said something like "well I feel much younger and I've got a good 10+ years to give to this career"
Think I would of said something like that.

 

[geordieboy88]

I'm not 100% certain, so best do your own research, but I was under the impression that age, for the purpose of recruitment and employment, falls under the 'protected characteristics', along with sex, marital status, sexual orientation, religion etc etc, and therefore shouldn't be asked about at interview in order to avoid any potential for discrimination.......

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm not 100% certain, so best do your own research, but I was under the impression that age, for the purpose of recruitment and employment, falls under the 'protected characteristics', along with sex, marital status, sexual orientation, religion etc etc, and therefore

https://www.fpb.org/business-suppor...cted-characteristics-and-types-discrimination

Protected characteristics

Each characteristic is addressed in the new Act in summary as follows:
1. Age

The Act protects employees of all ages but remains the only protected characteristic that allows employers to justify direct discrimination, i.e. if an employer can demonstrate that to apply different treatment because of someone's age constitutes a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim, then no discrimination will have taken place.

shouldn't be asked about at interview in order to avoid any potential for discrimination.......

The railways ask your age because there is a minimum age requirement.

https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment

Asking for a date of birth

You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job, eg selling alcohol.

You can ask someone their date of birth on a separate equality monitoring form. You shouldn’t let the person selecting or interviewing candidates see this form.

Hope those links help.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Southern have just taken on a trainee who is 58 so don't think age matters anymore

Employers are not allowed to deny job opportunities on age grounds unless there are clear contraindications such as health issues. Age is one of the "protected characteristics" that fall under the Equality & Diversity Act that includes sexual orientation, religion, marital status and pregnancy".

 

[Dave999]

Age should not be brought up in interview, totally unprofessional as it leads to an interviewee questioning if that is why they did not get the position. Of course it most likely isn't the case as TOC's have employed over 55's as trainees but it does lead to doubt because of a question, that is why usually interviews from reputable company's all follow the same format for each applicant.

 

[northernchris]

I work in recruitment for one of the major financial organisations and the date of birth is not asked for on an application form. It also shouldn't be provided on CVs. All of the roles recruited for have a minimum age of 18, however whe screening CVs you can usually gauge a candidates age based on their experience - and it is this which should count for more. The only time we would see the date of birth is when ID is provided at interview, and this is just so the business can see the candidate is who they say they are and have the right to work in the UK

An interviewer should not be commenting on age, and if they have asked a question specifically related to this it is not best practice but doesn't automatically mean any discrimination has occurred

 

[47802]

Employers are not allowed to deny job opportunities on age grounds unless there are clear contraindications such as health issues. Age is one of the "protected characteristics" that fall under the Equality & Diversity Act that includes sexual orientation, religion, marital status and pregnancy".

Well yes that's all very well but in reality it doesn't of course stop some people being ageist, of course they will have to come up with some other excuse not to give the person the job, and of course before the law was changed ageism was extremely rife in many industries.

 

[Bromley boy]

https://www.fpb.org/business-suppor...cted-characteristics-and-types-discrimination





The railways ask your age because there is a minimum age requirement.

https://www.gov.uk/employer-prevent...hese shortcomings for your next DM interview.

 

[All Line Rover]

The sources quoted in the above post summarise the position accurately. The below article also gives a good summary of the legal position.

https://www.thebalance.com/is-it-illegal-to-ask-for-a-job-applicant-s-date-of-birth-2059528

...an employee or job applicant cannot be treated less favourably, on the grounds of age, as it is a protected characteristic, along with gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc.

Ah, the joys of legal advice on the internet. That article on "thebalance" discusses US law (of which I know nothing) - immediately apparent from its reference to the "Age Discrimination Act 1967", which doesn't exist in the UK.

Age is most certainly not a "subject that is illegal for an interviewer to address" (as "thebalance" claims - which may or may not be true in the US). The only question that is a big no-no is: "Are you planning to have children?".

 

[Bromley boy]

Ah, the joys of legal advice on the internet. That article on "thebalance" discusses US law (of which I know nothing) - immediately apparent from its reference to the "Age Discrimination Act 1967", which doesn't exist in the UK.

Age is most certainly not a "subject that is illegal for an interviewer to address" (as "thebalance" claims - which may or may not be true in the US). The only question that is a big no-no is: "Are you planning to have children?".

Thanks for pointing that out.

As a qualified UK solicitor of several years' standing (although no longer practicing), I can only hang my head in shame! In my defence, my advice on here is worth exactly as much as the OP paid for it (ie zilch), and my specialism was financial services tax, for corporates/funds, not employment law.

The UK position is largely the same, so many aspects of the article hold true.

Apologies again.

EDIT: see my subsequent posting for an accurate picture of the current uk position on age discrimination...