Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[Edvid]

Yesterday's 377 was 208 - were it not for my plans back then I've had stayed at StP for a short while and snapped it there.

Regarding the bridge, I'm intrigued about its link to the substation you mention (they'll need all the space available in that corner of the City!) and disappointed that the QVS passenger footbridge will no longer be built.

I presume said stock move is for a SU 319/2 (that's what it sounds like on UKmodernEMU).

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Yesterday's 377 was 208 - were it not for my plans back then I've had stayed at StP for a short while and snapped it there.

Regarding the bridge, I'm intrigued about its link to the substation you mention (they'll need all the space available in that corner of the City!) and disappointed that the QVS passenger footbridge will no longer be built.

I presume said stock move is for a SU 319/2 (that's what it sounds like on UKmodernEMU).

Well I may hold out for 501 after this was posted this morning "Requested time is 10.30 off of Selhurst, running as 5Z10 to Cauldwell. It is shown as "4 car 377" but which one, I have no idea?" After all its been testing now for a few weeks and as long as the shut down problem has fixed then I can't see why its not ready. We were told to expect the first 377/5 in service this week last month so its not that far off the date.

Basically Ludgate Cellars Substation is next to the track on the west side as it enters City. I can't see the need for a passanger bridge as new subways will cross the road and to come out the other end of the substation means your at the start of City Thameslink's platforms.

As for the 377/2 thats interesting that 208 came out to play as 201 has been around all week and Im expecting it to stay with us if we we some 2xx series 377's. Was 208 showing Electrostar on the sides and a blank front did you happen to notice at all? 201 been like that all week.

 

[Edvid]

I could see the unit number but not much else of the train as I was leaving my train on platform 4 and didn't wait to see the rest of it.

Anyway, I digress. 319377 is now back at Cauldwell, so 41 of 66 directly leased 319s are now overhauled/refreshed. And I got 319367 on both Tuesday's and yesterday's trips (different times) into Central London.

 

[73110]

I think it was 7203 that failed at Farringdon today. Couldn't raise the pan so it went back to Herne Hill. Couldn't get in the sidings so it went around the corner then shunted back into the platfrom. Then it went to Smithfield sidings as they wouldn't allow it back on the TL route. After a while it eventually ran down to Three Bridges then back empty to Streatham Hill.

 

[Edvid]

For a moment I thought you were implying that 203 was the Cauldwell unit, but I just remembered that 501 (unit ID confirmed) is actually meant to reach Cauldwell tomorrow, which explains the lack of gen for today's 377/5 daylight movements

Here's the gen for 350114 tonight (provided by John Atkinson, relayed by Matthew Brown):

5Z10 22+35 Selhurst depot - North Pole - Clapham Junction
5Z11 00+38 Clapham Junction - Selhurst
5Z12 01+01 Selhurst - Clapham Junction
5Z13 01+30 Clapham Junction - East Croydon
5Z14 02+30 East Croydon - Clapham Junction
5Z15 03+10 Clapham Junction - Selhurst depot

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Interesting as Ive got down here that is was 208 that failed at Farringdon after not being able to get AC. If it is the case then its the second time in as many days it failed.

For anyone wanting to know it was on path 5Z21.

Hopefully I will still be in the Core when 501 comes through tomorrow. Although Im fearing I'll actually be on a southbound train when it comes.

 

[Edvid]

I suppose 8 could be misread as 3 (and vice versa) depending on the circumstances. These 377/2s seem to be failing changeovers a lot recently don't they - if Farringdon brings out the worst of the DV 377s as frequently is it does now then we're in for a rough ride.

Meanwhile, Ian Hunt of se-gen reports that both /5s passed Balham at 2136 en-route to Milton Keynes Central (5Z30).

 

[mackenzie_blu]

To be honest theres aleast one unit failing a day at Farringdon with this issue and it messes the entire TL route up when it does.

Hope the tests go well tonight and we get our unit tomorrow!

 

[westcoaster]

also a pair of 319's stalled going up the bank this afternoon (l.o.p) all southbound services were delayed for about 30 mins, followed by a fatallity at balcombe so some delays out there.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

also a pair of 319's stalled going up the bank this afternoon (l.o.p) all southbound services were delayed for about 30 mins, followed by a fatallity at balcombe so some delays out there.

I watched the Core problems unfold in front of me yesterday then just as I went home the Balcombe indicent came happened. Not good at all for all concerned.

 

[Edvid]

Andrew Chambers was ready and waiting for the 377/5s at MKC and managed to snap 504 (with 501 behind it) on the country end of platform 5. He didn't have enough time to snap 501 as the formation departed just 4 minutes after arrival!

But hey, he still published the first pic of /5s on the AC supply AFAIK.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Latest on 501 - sighting at Elephant and Castle reported on uk.railway just over 15 minutes ago. Sooner or later we'll find out whether it proceeded beyond Farringdon or not...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
...and it did! Unit was snapped by Nick Lawford of UKmodernEMU between Luton Airport Parkway and Luton at 1745!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Andrew Chambers was ready and waiting for the 377/5s at MKC and managed to snap 504 (with 501 behind it) on the country end of platform 5. He didn't have enough time to snap 501 as the formation departed just 4 minutes after arrival!

But hey, he still published the first pic of /5s on the AC supply AFAIK.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Latest on 501 - sighting at Elephant and Castle reported on uk.railway just over 15 minutes ago. Sooner or later we'll find out whether it proceeded beyond Farringdon or not...

The unit did make it past Blackfriars although I haven't got a time as I was on my way home. Seems all is well. Not for the staff training......

 

[Edvid]

Just another post so pictures can be attached as the normal link cannot be used directly.

 

[westcoaster]

now what i dont get is, all the RUMOURS and untruths about theses units going back to derby, has it been confirmed there not going back, that the faults where just someone playing about.

 

[Edvid]

If the faults were serious enough to require the units to be fixed at Derby, 501 would NOT have made its maiden self-powered trip to Bedford today. The tests involving both units since Monday would not have happened either, and (according to Nick Lawford) the way Electrostars are built means that a 'cracked chassis' would never apply to such a unit. Therefore the 'cracked chassis' certainly did not exist, and I suspect the other problem didn't (or at least it was minor and rectified at Selhurst).

Thinking about it now, the same guy who made the '377/5s back to Derby' claim also claimed that 501 was at Hornsey days before the unit even left Derby.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

now what i dont get is, all the RUMOURS and untruths about theses units going back to derby, has it been confirmed there not going back, that the faults where just someone playing about.

Maybe the computer problems on 501 were true as its been confirmed that the unit kept breaking down (every 250 miles according to one source) so maybe they managed to fix it at Selhurst with a software update?

As for 504 and the broken chassis, who knows. Reminds me about what we were told in training never assume and it will make an ASS of U and ME!

**edit**

Nearly forgot, 377208 was out all midday doing its paths without a problem. Good news on that front then!

 

[westcoaster]

also heard yesterday that they are expecting a few 317's back on the tl side as a stop gap, but that would mean into moorgate, unless when they put up the ohle into snowhill tunell in which case they would shunt there ( one of the more suprising things ive heard maybe another rumour who knows).

 

[mackenzie_blu]

also heard yesterday that they are expecting a few 317's back on the tl side as a stop gap, but that would mean into moorgate, unless when they put up the ohle into snowhill tunell in which case they would shunt there ( one of the more suprising things ive heard maybe another rumour who knows).

That I have to say I doubt, is it sensable to put OHLE through Blackfriars at the moment when its effective a building site? Plus when they start taking down half the bridge in a couple of months there wont be space to put the structure.

Although trains terimating at Farringdon and reversing in Moorgate is possible until december. Although I think the 377/2 deal that seems to have been approved now suggests the Electrostars will be on the network to cope untill the 377/5 are all there.

**edit**

The new Southeastern timetables will be out next week as they have been deliveried to station. Look out for the "revised timetable" thats white and basically paper book. Also you'll see the Southeastern network map with St Albans, Luton and Bedford on it.

 

[Edvid]

Snow Hill Tunnel doesn't include Blackfriars. Therefore (in future) if a train from the north fails to gain DC power at Farringdon, it can continue to City Thameslink but no further.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Snow Hill Tunnel doesn't include Blackfriars. Therefore (in future) if a train from the north fails to gain DC power at Farringdon, it can continue to City Thameslink but no further.

Problem is that the business case doesn't stack up hence why the OHLE is only being put on the northbound track from City to Farringdon and thats because there is somewhere to put a failed train once unloaded (Smithfield) rather than reversing a unit in platform which is more of a delay. Without a reversing berth in the southbound direction there isn't really any point and you might as well reverse at Farringdon.

 

[westcoaster]

there is an crossover at the northend of snowhill tunnel atm you can terminate in the northbound plat at farringdon and return south also you can stop in snowhill tunnel going south and return northbound its this crossover that can be elecrified.

 

[Edvid]

Nearly forgot, 377208 was out all midday doing its paths without a problem.

Snapped at Farringdon by...Paul Bigland. The unit could do with a clean at the front!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

377501 did reach Bedford depot safe and sound. And I actually managed to get to see the said unit today!

Ive uploaded the best images I have of the unit. Please bare in mind that I was a fair distance away.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/3316957636/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/3316957396/

**edit**

Ive just found this page with some great shots Ive never seen before of 377501 at Selhurst

**2nd edit**

Just got this image of a 377/5 DM at Derby

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/3316435041/

 

[Edvid]

Y'know, I wondered (and still do) who took that last picture when I read this story - Union calls for long-term train procurement strategy

When I read this paragraph...

The Litchurch Lane factory is currently working at full capacity—but without further big orders there are doubts about how many workers will be needed there after 2010.

...I couldn't help but think they're not exactly being truthful since the main production batch of LUL S-Stock (over 1300 carriages) won't begin for months.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Y'know, I wondered who took that last picture when I read this story - Union calls for long-term train procurement strategy

When I read this paragraph...

The Litchurch Lane factory is currently working at full capacity—but without further big orders there are doubts about how many workers will be needed there after 2010.

...I couldn't help but think they're not exactly being truthful since the main production batch of LUL S-Stock (over 1300 carriages) won't begin for months.

Just to point out I didnt take that image! Tho wish I had

Not only have Bombarbier got the 377/5 and 378 fleets to build, but the 172's, 09TS, S Stock & Stanstead Express new trains (who have decided they want an Electrostar family product).

Well that to me seems that they will be needing staff well into 2010. And besides they would be going all out for the Thameslink NXEMUs which will keep them rather busy.

 

[Edvid]

Is NXEMU an official term? I haven't seen it elsewhere, or even NGEMU these days (recently anyway)...

I do remember that the official DfT press release on the IEP trains mentioned that BBD were 'preferred bidders' for the new Stansted Express fleet, although in an IEP-related interview, Geoff Hoon explicitly states that the SE units will be built by BBD:

Robin Johnson (RJ): Are you aware that Bombardier faces a big gap in its order book in late 2010. Is this something that worries the Government?

GH: I don't think that's wholly accurate. I've just come from talking to Bombardier I've met not only Colin Walton (Bombardier's UK chairman) on a regular basis lately, but also the French head of the business. There are some issues. They're getting the National Express order. They've got, incidentally, 2,000 orders currently. So that's going to provide work beyond 2010. There's also a major DMU train order coming up. There's also an order for 1,200 Thameslink trains coming up. So the opportunities today for rail railway manufacturing could not be better.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

To be honest Im not sure if its the offical term. Im not sure where Ive picked it up from but I know from chatting to people they have an idea what I mean when I say NXEMUs.

Offically they are looking for a new generation EMU so either NXEMU or NGEMU seems suitable until we get a family name (ie Electrostar, Desiro or whatever they decide).

 

[Edvid]

Took a few more pictures today, mostly at Blackfriars.

The new footbridge at Farringdon has another staircase (see first pic) attached but as yet more work is needed before the footbridge can be opened fully. In the second pic I've attached (also at Farringdon), you may notice that some stations on the NSE-era sign have been blanked out (two of which should rightfully be revealed again).

I forgot to check out the Paul's Walk station entrance but judging by the speed at which it's being built and the materials involved it's clearly temporary. At the moment the Blackfriars subway is still fully open but without access to the tube station obviously.

I bought a March 2009 copy of Modern Railways today, and among other things Andrew Mitchell (the NR TLP Project Director) says the new Ludgate Cellars substation will have a power rating of 20MW, not to mention that the platform extensions outside the core will be carried out in 5 tranches; Tranche 1 stations are Luton Airport Parkway (operational since December 2008 ), Mill Hill Broadway (to be completed in April 2009), West Hampstead Thameslink (started recently), Bedford, Luton and St Albans.

Modern Railways illustrate how Blackfriars NR station and the bridge will be rebuilt, which is quite useful. Anyway, I digress - given the topics covered by this thread, would it be better off as part of the 'General Discussion' group instead?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Took a few more pictures today, mostly at Blackfriars.

The new footbridge at Farringdon has another staircase (see first pic) attached but as yet more work is needed before the footbridge can be opened fully. In the second pic I've attached (also at Farringdon), you may notice that some stations on the NSE-era sign have been blanked out (two of which should rightfully be revealed again).

Those NSE era signs were blanked out awhile ago and where like that before xmas. Bridge seems to be coming along well now.

I forgot to check out the Paul's Walk station entrance but judging by the speed at which it's being built and the materials involved it's clearly temporary. At the moment the Blackfriars subway is still fully open but without access to the tube station obviously.

Paul's walk is only designed to be there till 2011 when thewetern side of Blackfrairs is completed.

I bought a March 2009 copy of Modern Railways today, and among other things Andrew Mitchell (the NR TLP Project Director) says the new Ludgate Cellars substation will have a power rating of 20MW, not to mention that the platform extensions outside the core will be carried out in 5 tranches; Tranche 1 stations are Luton Airport Parkway (operational since December 2008 ), Mill Hill Broadway (to be completed in April 2009), West Hampstead Thameslink (started recently), Bedford, Luton and St Albans.

The tranches generally work out to time frams with the final north side platform extensions to be finished in 2011. I can't for the life of me remember what they are but Im sure its moving northwards in phases.

Modern Railways illustrate how Blackfriars NR station and the bridge will be rebuilt, which is quite useful. Anyway, I digress - given the topics covered by this thread, would it be better off as part of the 'General Discussion' group instead?

The double page spread with the computer generated image actually is something the TLP FCC staff havn't heard of judging by what I was told last week. They had never seen this image before I was talking about it.

Hmmm maybe a TLP thread would be suitable? After all its stations, rolling stock, track and signalling all in one large project.

 

[Tom C]

Those NSE era signs were blanked out awhile ago and where like that before xmas

The sign on the staircase from Platform 2 to 3 has been like that for many a year with such exotic destinations as Bromley South and Sevenoaks taped over. Quite ironic that it can now be put back (I forget if it still has Guildford on it?)

The double page spread with the computer generated image actually is something the TLP FCC staff havn't heard of judging by what I was told last week. They had never seen this image before I was talking about it.

Its something that none of the staff have seen!

With the exception of the original Thameslink programme brief which we had at the hotel by Blackfriars we have had very little information.

Even though the new timetable is almost in place they are only now arranging for managers to have briefings regarding the new timetable and then it has to be filtered down to the ground level staff and there are still numerous questions that remain unanswered particularly with regards to revenue staff.

I was working at Blackfriars this evening and its a eerie place now with all the tenants gone and the large drop in passenger numbers.