Set down only stops on trains on the continent

[175mph]

Sorry if this has been discussed many times before but after reading about setting down only stops on train services in this country, does it ever happen on any train services such as France's SNCF services or Germany's DB services?

 

[Groningen]

I can only speak for Germany and can say that DB trains can always be used at all times of the day. Even overnight trains could be used, but there are always other trains. For example the Praha to Berlin (or Hannover to Hamburg) has a IC that runs slightly earlier than the EN train.

 

[30907]

A few years ago the Hamburg-Copenhagen ICs were pick up only at Lübeck, and there may be other examples. It's difficult to spot them without using the pdf timetables (or the ERT).

In France, TGVs are reservation only, which is another way of controlling access for short journeys. I'm not sure you can book (say) Nice-Cannes by TGV. The German version is having differential fares.

 

[47513 Severn]

At Hamburg Hbf I have noticed long distance services that go on to terminate at Altona are normally marked as "Nicht einsteigen" on the platform screens and not advertised at all on the main departure boards. The same happens at Berlin Hbf with trains continuing to Gesundbrunnen. I don't think the timetable actually forbids you to use them for such short hops but it may be to prevent people using the trains with local tickets (although IC/ICE fares probably exist for the flows, this is Germany after all)

 

[AlexNL]

Thalys from Paris to Amsterdam has a "set down only" stop at Schiphol Airport.

 

[Flying_Turtle]

By virtues of ticketing, you can't get on fast trains between Lisbon Stations

 

[Gordon]

Sorry if this has been discussed many times before but after reading about setting down only stops on train services in this country, does it ever happen on any train services such as France's SNCF services or Germany's DB services?

Yes, traditionally this has been an integral part of European train timetables, especially overnight services. However it was much easier to spot in the old days of paper timetables and non high speed trains.

The internationally-recognised paper timetable symbol is a black (filled in) 'half moon' facing one way round for set down only and the opposite for pick up only.

Look for page 6 and 31 in the Swiss PDF here:

http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/fileadmin/fap_pdf_fields/2017/100.pdf

you will see that the ski season TGV from Paris is not intended for short hop Swiss journeys at the later end of its journey from Paris, so on page 6 TGV 9263 is set down only at the 7 station stops in Switzerland. On page 31 the return working TGV9272 is pick up only in Switzerland

Both symbols are clearly seen on the same train in this Glacier Express PDF timetable :

http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/fileadmin/fap_pdf_fields/2017/144.pdf





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[Groningen]

At Hamburg Hbf I have noticed long distance services that go on to terminate at Altona

Not all train at Hamburg Hbf going west go to Altona. There is also Flensburg and Kiel. You always can use the S-Bahn.

Oh, that is small!

 

[30907]

Not all train at Hamburg Hbf going west go to Altona. There is also Flensburg and Kiel. You always can use the S-Bahn.

Oh, that is small!

Thanks for the info but it's a little OT as the discussion is about trains where the stop is shown "nur Aus- bzw. Einsteigen." (set down/pick up only).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can only speak for Germany and can say that DB trains can always be used at all times of the day. Even overnight trains could be used, but there are always other trains. For example the Praha to Berlin (or Hannover to Hamburg) has a IC that runs slightly earlier than the EN train.

DB have a different method of enforcement in that the Verbund tickets valid on local trains are not valid at all on InterCity type trains. Therefore most people will not have a valid ticket to make a local journey on one. The small number of people who will go out of their way to purchase one at a higher cost aren't worth worrying about.

Previously, the IC-Zuschlag, a flat-fare supplement of around £5, chargeable for an IC journey also provided some of that effect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In France, TGVs are reservation only, which is another way of controlling access for short journeys. I'm not sure you can book (say) Nice-Cannes by TGV. The German version is having differential fares.

PKP IC (who have a curious version of compulsory reservation basically summed up as "we don't mark reservations and we don't sell tickets without them, but the guard will also flog them" except on EIP where it's French style) won't sell short-distance tickets on IC/EIC/EIP trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Hamburg Hbf I have noticed long distance services that go on to terminate at Altona are normally marked as "Nicht einsteigen" on the platform screens and not advertised at all on the main departure boards. The same happens at Berlin Hbf with trains continuing to Gesundbrunnen. I don't think the timetable actually forbids you to use them for such short hops but it may be to prevent people using the trains with local tickets (although IC/ICE fares probably exist for the flows, this is Germany after all)

Yes, IC/ICE fares exist for any journey you can make on those trains.

However, not that I encourage this, an attempt to fare-dodge on that journey would have a near 100% chance of success.

 

[Groningen]

Normally there is no control between Altona and Hbf or v.v.. I have never seen it.

 

[pne]

At Hamburg Hbf I have noticed long distance services that go on to terminate at Altona are normally marked as "Nicht einsteigen" on the platform screens and not advertised at all on the main departure boards. The same happens at Berlin Hbf with trains continuing to Gesundbrunnen.

And also at Hamburg-Harburg, my local station, for trains that terminate at Hamburg Hbf -- only trains that continue further north (e.g. to Rostock or Kiel) are displayed.

A bit annoying if you have a long-distance ticket from Harburg to the north which would be valid on an IC or ICE (depending on the ticket) -- are you allowed to take such trains for the first hop to the main station before changing to another long-distance train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you allowed to? I guess not.

Will they do anything if you do? I doubt it.

 

[sheff1]

In France, TGVs are reservation only, which is another way of controlling access for short journeys. I'm not sure you can book (say) Nice-Cannes by TGV.

You certainly can ... and often at a cheaper fare than that for the slower TER !

 

[181]

PKP IC (who have a curious version of compulsory reservation basically summed up as "we don't mark reservations and we don't sell tickets without them, but the guard will also flog them" except on EIP where it's French style) won't sell short-distance tickets on IC/EIC/EIP trains.

A few months ago I enquired about using an EIP train for the 19 km from Tczew to Malbork, and was quoted a fare several times that for the stopping train which I in fact used -- it seems, on the basis of my experience, that they will sell short-distance tickets for these trains, but only at a price designed to discourage such journeys. I wonder whether maybe there's a cutoff such that journeys shorter than x km are charged as if they were x km.

 

[dutchflyer]

as Gordon explains, its mostly a relic of the past for overnight trains-pick up only evenings, set down only mornings.
F.e. in Hambg etc it also means that such trains may leave EARly or at whatever is convenient for the service.
I have once gotten off an completely unadvertised stop at Lyon-Perrache (driver exchange) around 4.00 on the then running overnight Flandres-Riviera Lille-Nice.

 

[Gordon]

I have once gotten off an completely unadvertised stop at Lyon-Perrache (driver exchange) around 4.00 on the then running overnight Flandres-Riviera Lille-Nice.

Likewise, all night trains on the Ligne Imperiale (PLM) Paris Marseille route stopped at Dijon whether advertised or not, and the same thing at other major staging points, such as Brive la Gaillarde on the Paris - Sud Ouest route. On busy nights you could get almost all the platforms as such station filled with a parade of trains stopping for crew change etc purposes. I once stopped at Brive for 1 hour and 20 minutes to cater for the clock change summer to winter time.

on a parallel subject I once wanted to save the cost of a hotel in Metz so I took a night train south to Mulhouse, changed into its northbound equivalent in the early morning and travelled back to Metz in time for breakfast!



.

 

[leytongabriel]

Versailles Chantiers has pick up and set down only stops on the odd Inter-Cities SNCF service Paris Montparnasse - Granville and possibly still some TER trains serving Le Mans via Nogent.

 

[TRAX]

Some trains are pick-up only at Massy TGV.

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few months ago I enquired about using an EIP train for the 19 km from Tczew to Malbork, and was quoted a fare several times that for the stopping train which I in fact used -- it seems, on the basis of my experience, that they will sell short-distance tickets for these trains, but only at a price designed to discourage such journeys. I wonder whether maybe there's a cutoff such that journeys shorter than x km are charged as if they were x km.

Their online ticket system definitely wouldn't sell Gdansk Glowny-Gdansk Oliwa on an IC[1] (the intention being to extend the journey from what I already had) - the message I got was "journey too short" or somesuch.

I wonder if it isn't allowed in "Verbund" (sort-of) areas.

[1] IC is a new category for PKP, it's basically a poshed-up TLK at TLK fares using new rolling stock like IC-layout Stadler FLIRT or Pesa DART (the latter is a Polish near-clone of the former).

 

[Starmill]

It would seem that the direct services from Madrid to Marseille are pick up only at Zaragoza Delicias, Camp de Tarragona, Barcelona Sants, Girona and Figueres Vilafant. Their first pick up is Prepignan I think, judging by the bahn.de planner.

Here's a screenshot of AVE 9724 (1325 Madrid Puerta de Atocha to Marseille St Charles).

 

[eddp]

It would seem that the direct services from Madrid to Marseille are pick up only at Zaragoza Delicias, Camp de Tarragona, Barcelona Sants, Girona and Figueres Vilafant. Their first pick up is Prepignan I think, judging by the bahn.de planner.

The RENFE site will sell tickets for (eg) Madrid to Barcelona on this train - could it be that DB is getting timetable information from SNCF for this train which doesn't have information about journeys internal to Spain?

Just to add to the earlier comments about Germany that ICE trains from Hannover to Berlin Hbf are set-down only at Berlin-Spandau (in the journey planner, when viewing intermediate stations, there's no departure time set from there). The Inter-Regio-Express Berlin to Hamburg and vv train is also pick-up and set-down only at a number of stations along its route - the timetable is available at https://www.bahn.de/regional/view/m...0963_db_ire_flyer_berlin_hamburg_fahrplan.pdf.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Inter-Regio-Express Berlin to Hamburg and vv train is also pick-up and set-down only at a number of stations along its route - the timetable is available at https://www.bahn.de/regional/view/m...0963_db_ire_flyer_berlin_hamburg_fahrplan.pdf.

That train is a real oddity, I find it difficult to understand what the point of it is. (Possibly competing against coaches, but could not their version of Advances do that? Or if you think a regional train is necessary, why once/twice a day, why not hourly/2-hourly?)

 

[duesselmartin]

Just noticed that EC35 from Hamburg to Copenhagen is pick up only at Lübeck.

 

[Starmill]

The RENFE site will sell tickets for (eg) Madrid to Barcelona on this train - could it be that DB is getting timetable information from SNCF for this train which doesn't have information about journeys internal to Spain?

Are you sure that's not AVE 19725?

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/tr...dep&currentReferrer=tp&rt=1&rtMode=DB-HYBRID&

vs

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/tr...dep&currentReferrer=tp&rt=1&rtMode=DB-HYBRID&

 

[eddp]

Are you sure that's not AVE 19725?

As far as I can make out it's the same train but with two different numbers. I've used the train from Marseille to travel from Barcelona to Madrid before - it's an AVE100 rather than a 103 so is fairly obvious, announcements are all made in French as well as Spanish/Catalan/English...

I can't find a source with both train numbers, but the timetable is available at https://www.renfe-sncf.com/rw-en/Documents/timetables/timetables.pdf and doesn't mention pick up or set down only restrictions.

I did find the departures board for Sants where the train is listed as an AVE S/100 to "4313" (the location code for the Adif/TP Ferro boundary) and with train number 09725 (interestingly neither 19725 nor 9724), but it's clearly the international train....

 

[30907]

Just noticed that EC35 from Hamburg to Copenhagen is pick up only at Lübeck.

All the northbound trains used to be - presumably to avoid overcrowding - but not the southbounds.

 

[duesselmartin]

All the northbound trains used to be - presumably to avoid overcrowding - but not the southbounds.

That seems to have changed as south bound is not on the Lübeck timetable and the platform display says Nicht Einsteigen.