Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[TimboM]

The leading 73 failed at Edinburgh in W tunnel, no power and couldnt get a brake release. After many attempts to rectify the fault it was decided that the loco was a failure and they used the Aberdeen loco to go either Craigy or Millerhill to collect a 66 to tie on to the good 73.

The reason 2x 73's were supposed to be on the Inverness is because the Ft William portion was also attached to it as the WHL is shut for engineering works making it a load 11 all the way to Inverness.

So was it always going to be 2x 73s rather than the 67 due to the load 11? Or did the 67 fail too? Wondering why they didn't use the 67 as the 'rescue' loco, but (assuming it didn't fail) I'm guessing they can't work in multiple with a 73?

Also, did the Aberdeen 73 have to go and collect 66717 due to a lack of an additional driver at that time of night who could bring the 66 up from wherever it was?

 

[Scotrail84]

So was it always going to be 2x 73s rather than the 67 due to the load 11? Or did the 67 fail too? Wondering why they didn't use the 67 as the 'rescue' loco, but (assuming it didn't fail) I'm guessing they can't work in multiple with a 73?

Also, did the Aberdeen 73 have to go and collect 66717 due to a lack of an additional driver at that time of night who could bring the 66 up from wherever it was?

67 was never due to work the train on Saturday, either in multiple or on its own. It was diagrammed for 2 x 73's as far as I know.

 

[TimboM]

67 was never due to work the train on Saturday, either in multiple or on its own. It was diagrammed for 2 x 73's as far as I know.

Thanks for the info.

 

[CosherB]

So was it always going to be 2x 73s rather than the 67 due to the load 11? Or did the 67 fail too? Wondering why they didn't use the 67 as the 'rescue' loco, but (assuming it didn't fail) I'm guessing they can't work in multiple with a 73?

Also, did the Aberdeen 73 have to go and collect 66717 due to a lack of an additional driver at that time of night who could bring the 66 up from wherever it was?

The CS 73/9s can multi with a 66 so no reason why they can't do the same with a 67. Not sure why you'd want to though ....

 

[Clansman]

Read in the local paper that Serco have been granted permission to make changes to Platform 4 at Perth station - however it doesn't go on to state what they are actually doing. Can anyone shed light on this?

The only thing I can think of is a lounge inside the old time office and restaurants currently disused. Strange how Serco are looking to do this despite the fact that in a few years Platform 4 will become a termini (along with 3) when Perth is completely reconstructed and refurbished in ~2025.

 

[marks87]

Read in the local paper that Serco have been granted permission to make changes to Platform 4 at Perth station - however it doesn't go on to state what they are actually doing. Can anyone shed light on this?

The only thing I can think of is a lounge inside the old time office and restaurants currently disused. Strange how Serco are looking to do this despite the fact that in a few years Platform 4 will become a termini (along with 3) when Perth is completely reconstructed and refurbished in ~2025.

I don't see why it's "strange".

Fair enough if the remodelling was 100% confirmed and due to start in the next year or so, but eight years is long enough for a lounge (if that's what it is) to be put to good use.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Read in the local paper that Serco have been granted permission to make changes to Platform 4 at Perth station - however it doesn't go on to state what they are actually doing. Can anyone shed light on this?

The only thing I can think of is a lounge inside the old time office and restaurants currently disused. Strange how Serco are looking to do this despite the fact that in a few years Platform 4 will become a termini (along with 3) when Perth is completely reconstructed and refurbished in ~2025.

http://planningapps.pkc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=OMTE0CMKIWN00

Quoting from the application form:

"The works comprise of internal refurbishment and alterations. This includes structural works, the erection of a new lift shaft and removal of associated floor plate, new stud partitions forming wet rooms, a meeting room, fire escape route and a tea prep area. The works include the reinstatement of one infilled platform level window and reinstatement works throughout the first floor. This includes the removal of modern dividing partition walls and the reinstatement of original rooms & features.

On the ground floor the affected rooms are currently being used as an office for network rail staff . The Rooms on the first floor are currently vacant and in disrepair.

The proposed use is a first class lounge and wet rooms for Caledonia Sleeper passengers. Meeting Rooms, training room, tea prep area, mock up room and an auditorium for Caledonia Sleeper staff as well as provisions for these spaces to be leased out for public use. "

Typos as in the original!

 

[Clansman]

I don't see why it's "strange".

Fair enough if the remodelling was 100% confirmed and due to start in the next year or so, but eight years is long enough for a lounge (if that's what it is) to be put to good use.

I initially thought it was platform work until I remembered that there is all of the disused restaurants and time offices on platform 4.

http://planningapps.pkc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=OMTE0CMKIWN00

Quoting from the application form:

"The works comprise of internal refurbishment and alterations. This includes structural works, the erection of a new lift shaft and removal of associated floor plate, new stud partitions forming wet rooms, a meeting room, fire escape route and a tea prep area. The works include the reinstatement of one infilled platform level window and reinstatement works throughout the first floor. This includes the removal of modern dividing partition walls and the reinstatement of original rooms & features.

On the ground floor the affected rooms are currently being used as an office for network rail staff . The Rooms on the first floor are currently vacant and in disrepair.

The proposed use is a first class lounge and wet rooms for Caledonia Sleeper passengers. Meeting Rooms, training room, tea prep area, mock up room and an auditorium for Caledonia Sleeper staff as well as provisions for these spaces to be leased out for public use. "

Typos as in the original!

Wow, thanks for posting

It's great to see Perth getting some proper facilities at long last. It's been lagging behind for years.

 

[BRX]

A bit surprising there'd be much demand for showers at Perth because I would have thought that most people taking the sleeper with Perth as their final destination would take the lowlander and complete by day train - rather than opting for an earlier departure from Euston and having to get up before 5.30am!

 

[Clansman]

Just read the full proposals, it looks like Serco are wanting to use Perth as a prime location for offices and the training centre, as well as integrating a first class lounge.

Perfect location given Perth is the central connection to Inverness, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh - so its easy for staff to get to.

 

[TimboM]

Seems to be some fun and games on the southbound Lowlander this evening?

Going by RTT, it appears that the Edinburgh portion ECS left Polmadie on time but only got as far as Carstairs (37L) at 21:55. Consequently doesn't look like the Lowlander service from Edinburgh has left (yet) - or indeed is even going from Edinburgh as on the face of it, the stock is in Carstairs?

Meanwhile the Glasgow portion ECS move set off c.1.5 hours late and was almost 2 hours behind schedule getting into Glasgow, but that appears to have departed on time.

Not sure if this was planned or there's been some issues?

(UPDATE: the full train left Carstairs pretty much on time at least.)

 

[Mag_seven]

Seems to be some fun and games on the southbound Lowlander this evening?

Going by RTT, it appears that the Edinburgh portion ECS left Polmadie on time but only got as far as Carstairs (37L) at 21:55. Consequently doesn't look like the Lowlander service from Edinburgh has left (yet) - or indeed is even going from Edinburgh as on the face of it, the stock is in Carstairs?

Meanwhile the Glasgow portion ECS move set off c.1.5 hours late and was almost 2 hours behind schedule getting into Glasgow, but that appears to have departed on time.

Not sure if this was planned or there's been some issues?

(UPDATE: the full train left Carstairs pretty much on time at least.)

It was reported on another forum that the ECS Polmadie-Edinburgh for the Edinburgh portion was a light loco with no coaches. The ECS for the Glasgow portion was replatformed at Glasgow to platform 11 rather than 9 suggesting that both Edinburgh and Glasgow portions started from Glasgow.

 

[TimboM]

It was reported on another forum that the ECS Polmadie-Edinburgh for the Edinburgh portion was a light loco with no coaches. The ECS for the Glasgow portion was replatformed at Glasgow to platform 11 rather than 9 suggesting that both Edinburgh and Glasgow portions started from Glasgow.

Makes sense now why the Glasgow ECS was delayed (presumably having to attach the Edinburgh portion at late notice) and also why the original Edinburgh ECS run was replaced with a VSTP as far as Carstairs (i.e. to change it to a light loco).

Would be interested to know what the issue was - the ECS/Edinburgh portion traction (90043) seemed OK as still ran light engine and worked the morning portion , and the Edinburgh coaches were working well enough to be attached to the Glasgow portion (assuming of cause they were "working" and this wasn't just in effect an ECS move of a defective 8-coach set to get it back to Wembley)?

 

[Scotrail84]

Seems to be some fun and games on the southbound Lowlander this evening?

Going by RTT, it appears that the Edinburgh portion ECS left Polmadie on time but only got as far as Carstairs (37L) at 21:55. Consequently doesn't look like the Lowlander service from Edinburgh has left (yet) - or indeed is even going from Edinburgh as on the face of it, the stock is in Carstairs?

Meanwhile the Glasgow portion ECS move set off c.1.5 hours late and was almost 2 hours behind schedule getting into Glasgow, but that appears to have departed on time.

Not sure if this was planned or there's been some issues?

(UPDATE: the full train left Carstairs pretty much on time at least.)

It was reported on another forum that the ECS Polmadie-Edinburgh for the Edinburgh portion was a light loco with no coaches. The ECS for the Glasgow portion was replatformed at Glasgow to platform 11 rather than 9 suggesting that both Edinburgh and Glasgow portions started from Glasgow.

Makes sense now why the Glasgow ECS was delayed (presumably having to attach the Edinburgh portion at late notice) and also why the original Edinburgh ECS run was replaced with a VSTP as far as Carstairs (i.e. to change it to a light loco).

Would be interested to know what the issue was - the ECS/Edinburgh portion traction (90043) seemed OK as still ran light engine and worked the morning portion , and the Edinburgh coaches were working well enough to be attached to the Glasgow portion (assuming of cause they were "working" and this wasn't just in effect an ECS move of a defective 8-coach set to get it back to Wembley)?

The whole train started from Glasgow as there was no brake van available for the Edinburgh portion due to a defect therefore the train could not be split in two portions. That set should make 1S25 tonight so its likely they will shunt another brake in at Wembley today so the train can be split at Edinburgh on Saturday morning.

 

[TimboM]

The whole train started from Glasgow as there was no brake van available for the Edinburgh portion due to a defect therefore the train could not be split in two portions. That set should make 1S25 tonight so its likely they will shunt another brake in at Wembley today so the train can be split at Edinburgh on Saturday morning.

Thanks very much for the explanation, Scotrail84

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The whole train started from Glasgow as there was no brake van available for the Edinburgh portion due to a defect therefore the train could not be split in two portions. That set should make 1S25 tonight so its likely they will shunt another brake in at Wembley today so the train can be split at Edinburgh on Saturday morning.

There was a fault with the (borrowed) brake van coach at the front of the sleeper which came up from Euston to Glasgow on Thursday morning - all doors locked out of use (stickers on the doors). I believe the seated passengers were upgraded to a berth.

 

[Scotrail84]

There was a fault with the (borrowed) brake van at the front of the sleeper which came up from Euston to Glasgow on Thursday morning - all doors locked out of use (stickers on the doors). I believe the seated passengers were upgraded to a berth.

Yeah, 9507 brake coach. Ongoing heating fault, been like that for weeks, being shunted out tonight for repairs. That's usually only ever on the ft William service as it's a day coach and the ft William is a day service to/from Edinburgh. It was pressed into use on ONS as other night brake vans were out for repairs at the same time. Anytime a day brake coach is on the lowlander or highlander service (except the ft William) the passengers booked in this coach get put in beds.

 

[Scotrail84]

Thanks very much for the explanation, Scotrail84

1S25 has 9804 and 9805 in the rake. Both are night coaches.

 

[CosherB]

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/exclusive-september-arrival-for-caledonian-sleeper-mk-5s

EXCLUSIVE: September arrival for Caledonian Sleeper Mk 5s

Seventy-five coaches are being built by Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles (CAF) in Beasain, northern Spain. As this issue of RAIL went to press on April 5, 22 bodyshells had been completed. The first five Mk 5s are due to move to the Velim test track in Czech Republic in July.

 

[Clansman]

Noticed today in Inverness that the joint set with the Fort William portion only has the 1 lounge and seated coaches? How come CS have decided on this, rather than to run it as a 12 car set - I'd of thought at least the seated coach from the Fort Willy portion would've been in demand at least for the folk transferring via bus at Kingussie. Although having said that, it's not like the existing Inverness lounge car is full until after Aviemore anyway.

No idea why but upon returning to the station around 5ish, the sleeper (which was originally sitting in platform 2 with a double 73 on the front) was moved, but the Fort William coaches were uncoupled and remained at the buffers on the platform for whatever reason.

 

[Scotrail84]

Noticed today in Inverness that the joint set with the Fort William portion only has the 1 lounge and seated coaches? How come CS have decided on this, rather than to run it as a 12 car set - I'd of thought at least the seated coach from the Fort Willy portion would've been in demand at least for the folk transferring via bus at Kingussie. Although having said that, it's not like the existing Inverness lounge car is full until after Aviemore anyway.

No idea why but upon returning to the station around 5ish, the sleeper (which was originally sitting in platform 2 with a double 73 on the front) was moved, but the Fort William coaches were uncoupled and remained at the buffers on the platform for whatever reason.

Not busy enough at this time of year. Only one person was booked in the seats on Friday, to go to ft william by transferring at Kingussie on the bus, there was more from the berths though.

Maybe 11 coaches can't fit in the depot for maintenance? There was an issue with the formation of the train las week causing problems with the shunt at Inverness. This is the last week of the ft william going to Inverness anyway. The sleepers are going down the ECML tonight as well.

 

[12CSVT]

A bit surprising there'd be much demand for showers at Perth because I would have thought that most people taking the sleeper with Perth as their final destination would take the lowlander and complete by day train - rather than opting for an earlier departure from Euston and having to get up before 5.30am!

Eh ?

So people would rather change trains at Edinburgh than get a direct service to their destination ?

 

[Starmill]

Depends if you want to get up at 0530. If you're accustomed to that and can have a productive day afterwards then sure.

 

[jopsuk]

Eh ?

So people would rather change trains at Edinburgh than get a direct service to their destination ?

heading to Stirling in May, using Sleeper. Getting the lowland because seriously not getting up at half four in the morning

 

[Clansman]

Eh ?

So people would rather change trains at Edinburgh than get a direct service to their destination ?

It's more common and logical than you may think.

I sometimes go to Glasgow for connecting to Perth, but never Edinburgh.
A 55-minute commute from Glasgow in the morning plus a shower upon arrival is a pretty preferable option for me and many others I suspect.

Depends if you want to get up at 0530. If you're accustomed to that and can have a productive day afterwards then sure.

I take the Sleeper to Perth regularly enough, and whilst it's sometimes a pain in the backside getting up at 5.30am, I'm used to it and don't mind it as such - it gets me home in time to get an extra hours sleep and a shower. The lounge Serco is building at Perth will be a great facility if it's accessible for passengers in the morning.

On days when I'm not time constrained, I do choose to travel to Aviemore, Inverness or Aberdeen so I can get longer to sleep. And I've caught the Lowlander a few times also to allow me longer in England, which is always great - but don't do this often as I normally connect from the Midlands, thus need to travel via Crewe unless I'm not constrained for time in the morning.

 

[47271]

It's more common and logical than you may think.

Indeed it is, anything up to Perth is as well done on the Lowlander: you can go to a West End show or have a full evening in London for anything else and still be at work for the start of the day's business. Anything north of Perth then it's the Highlander every time.

On days when I'm not time constrained, I do choose to travel to Aviemore, Inverness or Aberdeen so I can get longer to sleep.

I'm not quite so sure about this one for myself! So you sleep on beyond Perth, just to come back again? I can't say I'd fancy a recreational two hours reversing on a 170 after eleven hours on the sleeper, but if it works for you, by all means...

 

[Scotrail84]

ECML tonight and for next few months on Sundays, early departures so if travelling please check the times.

 

[Clansman]

Indeed it is, anything up to Perth is as well done on the Lowlander: you can go to a West End show or have a full evening in London for anything else and still be at work for the start of the day's business. Anything north of Perth then it's the Highlander every time.

Exactly, it also gives me longer in the Midlands as well doing the Lowlander.

I'm not quite so sure about this one for myself! So you sleep on beyond Perth, just to come back again? I can't say I'd fancy a recreational two hours reversing on a 170 after eleven hours on the sleeper, but if it works for you, by all means...

Pretty much. When I was younger, I used to view the Sleeper as the "holiday before the holiday" (if that makes sense). So I perceive it as a luxury rather than a necessity. So sleeping beyond Perth to Aviemore/Inverness/Aberdeen or going to Glasgow to me is the equivalent of a ~2 hour journey from the Midlands (or London) back home.

I know what you mean about the 170 - it isn't the most pleasant ride in the world, especially slithering through Drumochdar Pass. Although I have lived to regret going to Inverness when a 158 shows up for my journey back to Perth, which is why I started going to Aviemore to get the HST.

As for Aberdeen, that's mainly for a change of scenery and a decent shower without the long journey back (as opposed to Inverness), or if it's the quietest sleeper of all 3 portions

 

[TimboM]

Southbound Highlander having some issues tonight it appears. Left Inverness on time but getting later and later - was 128L at Pitlochry.

2x 73s on tonight I believe (73966/71) - not that this and the delay are necessarily linked...

 

[Clansman]

Southbound Highlander having some issues tonight it appears. Left Inverness on time but getting later and later - was 128L at Pitlochry.

2x 73s on tonight I believe (73966/71) - not that this and the delay are necessarily linked...

Ye, 2x 73s hauling 10 coaches.

The Fort William passengers wouldn't have been happy in Kingussie to say the least.