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Wales & Borders Franchise Consultation

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Gareth Marston

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Regarding Craven Arms: a northbound Marches needs to stop at CA prior to the arrival of a southbound Heart of Wales service. A southbound Marches service needs to stop at CA to pick up passengers who have come off the Heart of Wales. That being so, these need to be the ‘best fit’ service on The Marches - whether it be Holyhead or Manchester trains.

I think it would be highly desirable to have Caerleon station re-built as this is an important place for commuters into Newport & Cardiff as well as tourist potential the other way to the Roman sites. Clearly, the long distance express services cannot stop at Caerleon. Perhaps a local stopper going as far north as Abergavenny is the answer - with a bay platform created? That being so, this could also serve Cwmbran with passengers from the town heading northward using the stopper to Abergavenny before transferring to the express services. The stopper could also call at Pontypool & New Inn - which at present has relatively few trains calling. A more direct road link is needed here into a car park. With that in place, perhaps the residents if Usk could be persuaded to use it for commuting?

That's been in the South Wales Metro maps that have been floating about. South of Pontypool and New Inn there's a shallow cutting where the line is straight on the east side is a derelict factory site whiohc would make an ideal park and ride/bus interchange. You can drop an access road across the top of the railway off the dual carrigeway.
 
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Philip

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No chance with that Leominster, Ludlow, Craven Arms, Church Stretton, Gobowen, Ruabon, Chirk and Wrexham not surprisingly want to have trains to Birmingham/Manchester.

They might want it but you can't please everyone. If the WAG want an hourly Cardiff to Holyhead then there will have to be some sacrifices in service level elsewhere. I really don't think it is essential that Church Stretton and Leominster retain regular direct trains to Manchester, particularly when closer towns like Nantwich have a greater case for such but are limited to only a handful per day. Likewise why do Chirk, Gobowen and Ruabon need direct Birmingham services?
 
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PHILIPE

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They might want it but you can't please everyone. If the WAG want an hourly Cardiff to Holyhead then there will have to be some sacrifices in service level elsewhere. I really don't think it is essential that Church Stretton and Leominster retain regular direct trains to Manchester, particularly when closer towns like Nantwich have a greater case for such but are limited to only a handful per day. Likewise why do Chirk, Gobowen and Ruabon need direct Birmingham services?

The WAG Government want an hourly Cardiff to Holyhead service to the stage they are completely obsessed with it. It will be borne out by many previous discussions on the Forum that people from North Wales just don't want to go to Cardiff as they prefer to go to Liverpool or Manchester.
 

berneyarms

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No chance with that Leominster, Ludlow, Craven Arms, Church Stretton, Gobowen, Ruabon, Chirk and Wrexham not surprisingly want to have trains to Birmingham/Manchester.

Not to be overly critical, but part of the problem to me seems to be that everyone wants direct trains to major cities.

For example, why should small stations like Craven Arms or Church Stretton have direct trains to/from Manchester?

Surely there needs to be an overhaul of the service pattern on the Marches Lines (Cardiff-Crewe/Chester), along the lines of:

* An hourly Manchester-Cardiff regional express service with limited stops;

* A second train each hour serving all stations between Cardiff Central and Shrewsbury, and then continuing to Chester;

* An hourly stopping service between Shrewsbury and Crewe

* An hourly Birmingham-Chester service

Now where those two trains per hour continue beyond Chester (if anywhere) is another thing up for discussion.

In the same way the North Wales Coast could do with an overhaul to provide:
* A semi-express along the coast
* Stopping services in Anglesea
* Stopping service along the coast

Some attempt to avoid the duplication of Virgin and ATW trains along the coast would be an idea as well - there are times when the capacity provided is seriously excessive of demand
 

berneyarms

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The WAG Government want an hourly Cardiff to Holyhead service to the stage they are completely obsessed with it. It will be borne out by many previous discussions on the Forum that people from North Wales just don't want to go to Cardiff as they prefer to go to Liverpool or Manchester.

I wonder sometimes though if a bigger picture is missed of these North-South Wales services - rather than looking at them as trains on which people using them are making through journeys from North to South, but instead to look at them as facilitating multiple journeys with connections at Chester and Shrewsbury, which, with the right scheduling, they clearly can deliver.
 

Rhydgaled

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I am not sure about that. Part C ii reads to me that its OK to nick another TOCs trains if there are sufficient suitable alternative trains for them.
It does sound that way, but Part C itself says:
AC or dual voltage electric multiple units, any locomotives, driving van trailers and coaching stock of any class that are leased by a Relevant Operator other than the current West Midlands and InterCity West Coast franchisees at the date of issuing this ITT
which appears to exclude DMUs. If I'm reading it right, Part C ii means they can nick EMUs, locos, DVT and hauled-coaches only if there are suitable alternatives available.

If W&B ITT has this clause then they could argue that the 185s that TPE have decided are surpless to requirements are a suitable replacements for the east midlands franchise after minor modifications e.g. removing first class. This would especially apply if it were confirmed in time that Liverpool to Nottingham was being transferred to TPE. I am sure the Rosco would love to sign a lesse for extra 158s to be used by the Wales and Borders franchise from 2019 to 2033.
That depends on the interpretation of this bit
must be capable of delivering comparable or better operational performance characteristics, and of achieving comparable or better levels of passenger satisfaction with the quality of rolling stock, than the stock it would replace within the donor franchise.
If the passenger they happen to ask is me, then I would not be satisfied if 3-car 185s replaced 4-car 158s. Even if the 185s were 2-car and operated as 4-car formations replacing 4-car 158s I would not be satisfied; 185s do not have UEGs and as such score lower on passenger-satisfaction counts than 158s. They also have a suburban door arangment; in terms of a long-distance service the 158 wins again. The only existing DMUs that I would consider a statisfactory replacment for a 158 that has to run in multiple is another 158 (or a 159, which might as well be a 158, or are there real differences?). If they didn't have to run in multiple, 175s would also be statisfactory replacments. The cascaded 185s not being fully available by Jan 1st 2020 is also a problem.

You won't get much extra between Wolves and New St without problems.
Which is where this came from:
Holyhead to Holyhead services via Crewe, Bescot Stadium, Birmingham New Street Aston, Bescot Stadium and Crewe
No need to run through Wolverhampton; just run via Bescot Stadium (without stopping, probably) instead until HS2 releases capacity to allow the services to call at Wolverhampton.

Regarding Craven Arms: a northbound Marches needs to stop at CA prior to the arrival of a southbound Heart of Wales service. A southbound Marches service needs to stop at CA to pick up passengers who have come off the Heart of Wales. That being so, these need to be the ‘best fit’ service on The Marches - whether it be Holyhead or Manchester trains.
I think it would be better just to allow travel via Shrewsbury and print 'via Shrewsbury permissable' on the tickets; I don't think Craven Arms has a waiting room so isn't a great interchange (mind you, the old waiting room on platforms 4-6 at Shrewsbury wasn't big enough for the number of passengers using the station and the new one I think is smaller still although I haven't got off there since the refurbishment).

Personally I think the Manchesters should be developed towards 'INTERCITY' standards. I'm not sure if the passenger numbers would justify the full 'INTERCITY' treatment (hot meal service) but taking out as many stops as possible to try and attract passengers should be looked at. That means
  • the south Wales services (ideally Swansea-MAN but there might not be the paths for it west of Cardiff) NOT stopping at Pyle, Cwmbran etc, possibly not even stopping at Abergavenny. Leominster and Ludlow would have to be served, as there's only likely to be one other train per hour and an hourly service is not enough, but they should run non-stop between Shrewsbury and Crewe.
  • North Wales services running Holyhead, Bangor, Llandudno Junction, Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Warrington, Earlestown XOR Newton-Le-Willows and Manchester stations
The peak-extra north Wales service though should run all-stations to/from Llandudno as Arriva's Standard Pattern Timetable does.

I think it would be highly desirable to have Caerleon station re-built as this is an important place for commuters into Newport & Cardiff as well as tourist potential the other way to the Roman sites. Clearly, the long distance express services cannot stop at Caerleon. Perhaps a local stopper going as far north as Abergavenny is the answer - with a bay platform created? That being so, this could also serve Cwmbran with passengers from the town heading northward using the stopper to Abergavenny before transferring to the express services. The stopper could also call at Pontypool & New Inn - which at present has relatively few trains calling. A more direct road link is needed here into a car park. With that in place, perhaps the residents if Usk could be persuaded to use it for commuting?
A turnback at Abergavenny is planned, but I think this would be a mistake. Instead, I think Caerleon should be served by an all-stops service from Cardiff to HEREFORD. That would allow passengers from Cwmbran etc. to change onto London Midland services to(wards) Birmingham etc. The other W&B service through Hereford would be a semi-fast (all stations except Caerleon and any other new stations) from Cardiff to Chester via Wrexham.
 

northwichcat

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I am not sure about that. Part C ii reads to me that its OK to nick another TOCs trains if there are sufficient suitable alternative trains for them. If W&B ITT has this clause then they could argue that the 185s that TPE have decided are surpless to requirements are a suitable replacements for the east midlands franchise after minor modifications e.g. removing first class. This would especially apply if it were confirmed in time that Liverpool to Nottingham was being transferred to TPE. I am sure the Rosco would love to sign a lesse for extra 158s to be used by the Wales and Borders franchise from 2019 to 2033.

What's the time scale for submitting bids compared to the East Midlands ITT being released? 185s have been deemed unsuitable for Peterborough to Norwich and a proposal to split the route hasn't gone down well with some people so I doubt W&B bidders could use that argument if they submit bids before the East Midlands ITT is released.

I wonder if Arriva could include some kind of deal which works for both Northern and Wales & Borders in their bid? Just looking they have 11 x Porterbrook 150s at Northern and 36 at ATW, while Porterbrook have 9 x 156s off-lease from 2019 and Northern have currently 26 x Porterbrook 156s. Porterbrook might welcome their 150s transferring to W&B if it meant Northern took on more of their 156s. The difference between 9 and 11 could be made up by taking on more 156s from Scotrail (if Scotrail are in fact releasing the 5 unaccounted for 156s) or taking on more 170s which will become off-lease.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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What's the time scale for submitting bids compared to the East Midlands ITT being released? 185s have been deemed unsuitable for Peterborough to Norwich and a proposal to split the route hasn't gone down well with some people so I doubt W&B bidders could use that argument if they submit bids before the East Midlands ITT is released.

W&B short-listed bidders are already engaged in a negotiation with the WG, who have not publicly released an "ITT" in the DfT sense.
 

Gareth Marston

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I wonder sometimes though if a bigger picture is missed of these North-South Wales services - rather than looking at them as trains on which people using them are making through journeys from North to South, but instead to look at them as facilitating multiple journeys with connections at Chester and Shrewsbury, which, with the right scheduling, they clearly can deliver.

This has been done to death many times. "Its geography stupid" to misquote Bill Clinton the north end of the Shrewsbury to Chester line is in the sphere of influence of Liverpool/Manchester the south end of it Birmingham. Neither Holyhead or Cardiff have any importance on day to day basis to 99.5% of the people who live between Severn and Dee. That's the big picture.
 

berneyarms

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This has been done to death many times. "Its geography stupid" to misquote Bill Clinton the north end of the Shrewsbury to Chester line is in the sphere of influence of Liverpool/Manchester the south end of it Birmingham. Neither Holyhead or Cardiff have any importance on day to day basis to 99.5% of the people who live between Severn and Dee. That's the big picture.

I get that there aren't that many people going end to end on those trains. It doesn't need to be repeated - I'm a member here long enough to understand that.

My point was that the Holyhead to Cardiff train if scheduled correctly it can deliver proper connections at Chester and Shrewsbury which can avoid unnecessary duplications. Thereby allowing other services to develop.

It could feed into/out of the Aberystwyth-Birmingham service for example at Shrewsbury allowing that to go hourly, rolling stock permitted. It provides a second hourly service between Shrewsbury and Cardiff, it could facilitate a Shrewsbury-Liverpool service via Wrexham, etc.

I'm merely making the point that it really should not be seen as an end-to-end service but rather one that facilitates other trips and connections.

People are talking about multiple direct trains on each of the lines. There is a finite capacity here and yet everyone seems to want direct trains going all over the place and don't want to countenance changing trains at all.
 
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Chester1

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Is there any chance of Voyagers going to Wales and Borders after 2026? I reckon 10 could be spared after HS2 phase 1 completion. If the journey time between Holyhead was reduced or some services terminated at Bangor or even Llandudno then 8-9 and 1-2 spares would be enough to run an hourly Holyhead-Cardiff express service. They would fit the profile that WAG want for the service through using the same trains as the London service. Again it would require DfT approval but they will be genuinely surpless to requirements in 2026 because there will be more than enough spare Pendalinos to replace the Voyagers used on Birmingham-Scotland services and London-Chester/North Wales use 8-10.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The Planner

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Which is where this came from:
No need to run through Wolverhampton; just run via Bescot Stadium (without stopping, probably) instead until HS2 releases capacity to allow the services to call at Wolverhampton.
.

"just" run via Bescot, then where? fight your away across Soho or Aston and Proof House?
 

gareth950

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This item in the Network Rail submission (linked in the above) suggests things are not very well advanced for the new franchise:

Doesn't fill you with confidence does it? As long as the WG gets its trams..........

Yet this was what was announced in July 2012 before Welsh Govt decided it could do a better job (and arguments started over who would pay):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18852955

BBC News said:
The Department of Transport announcement for south Wales involves overhead electrification of the following lines:

  • Cardiff Central to Cardiff Queen Street
  • Cardiff Queen Street to Aberdare
  • Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay
  • Cardiff Queen Street to Coryton
  • Newport to Ebbw Vale
  • Cardiff Central to Maesteg via Pontyclun, Bridgend
  • Abercynon to Merthyr Tydfil
  • Grangetown to Penarth
  • Cardiff Central to Danescourt via Radyr (City Line)
  • Cardiff Queen Street to Rhymney
  • Pontypridd to Treherbert
  • Cardiff Central to Bridgend via Barry - Bridgend (Vale of Glamorgan)
  • Barry to Barry Island
  • Bridgend to Swansea
 
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Gareth Marston

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Feedback from the TfW consultation events from contacts in SARPA.

"the recent (WG) Enterprise and Learning Committee meeting in Shrewsbury was very useful 8 out of 10, the TfW not so 4 out of 10, ELC knew what it was talking about".

"9 people attended Aberystwyth meeting one of them was carer for a wheelchair user who said nothing, neither did the wheelchair user, was he at the right meeting?"

Aled Roberts is the Arriva note taker at these events an ex AM (Labour??) Arriva also have Eluned Parrot another ex AM in their entourage.

"We had fun and criticized ATW and WG knowing that they could only sit their and make notes about it"

Other news

Someones realized that relocating ATW staff from Penarth House to Pontypridd will invoke relocation packages with not an inconsiderable number still on BR T & C's . The cost is being calculated so the Minister can choke on it.

"ATW have paid for wifi to be installed into its entire 150,158 & 175 fleet read what you like into that" source in Arriva. Same source mentioned Cardiff to Liverpool via Halton Curve....

Carno Station Action Group reckon they have done the homework on the timetable graphs and with current 12 a day service 7 or 8 could stop at Carno (i await evidence to be forwarded) however if hourly service started maybe only 6 a day could be achieved.

"Run like a focus group being asked about changes of healthcare legislation" which seems to be the work background of TfW people running the events.
 

PHILIPE

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Feedback from the TfW consultation events from contacts in SARPA.

"the recent (WG) Enterprise and Learning Committee meeting in Shrewsbury was very useful 8 out of 10, the TfW not so 4 out of 10, ELC knew what it was talking about".

"9 people attended Aberystwyth meeting one of them was carer for a wheelchair user who said nothing, neither did the wheelchair user, was he at the right meeting?"

Aled Roberts is the Arriva note taker at these events an ex AM (Labour??) Arriva also have Eluned Parrot another ex AM in their entourage.

"We had fun and criticized ATW and WG knowing that they could only sit their and make notes about it"

Other news

Someones realized that relocating ATW staff from Penarth House to Pontypridd will invoke relocation packages with not an inconsiderable number still on BR T & C's . The cost is being calculated so the Minister can choke on it.

"ATW have paid for wifi to be installed into its entire 150,158 & 175 fleet read what you like into that" source in Arriva. Same source mentioned Cardiff to Liverpool via Halton Curve....

Carno Station Action Group reckon they have done the homework on the timetable graphs and with current 12 a day service 7 or 8 could stop at Carno (i await evidence to be forwarded) however if hourly service started maybe only 6 a day could be achieved.

"Run like a focus group being asked about changes of healthcare legislation" which seems to be the work background of TfW people running the events.

The WIFI was a DFT initiative so ATW would have been forced into paying for it.
 

Gareth Marston

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The WIFI was a DFT initiative so ATW would have been forced into paying for it.

I think the inference is that the 150/158/175 fleet is staying in the franchise. Some posters from NW England have coveted thy neighbors DMU fleet in the past esp the 175's but this bidder is not planning like that.

The 150's should be more than sufficient to cover what has been coined the non core Valley Lines, Cariff to Gloucester, Abergavenny stopper, Swansea to Pembroke Dock, Heart of Wales, Wrexham to Bidston, Conway Valley etc.

158 fleet can be concentrated Mid Wales/Shropshire. But they will need some new Long Distance DMU's.
 

Rhydgaled

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"just" run via Bescot, then where? fight your away across Soho or Aston and Proof House?
Something like that. I managed to find the rules of the plan (or is it rules of the route?) on Network Rail's website and got the signalling headways. Those were 5 minutes at most, with most of the route being less than that, so I went onto Real Time Trains and thought it looked like there were gaps of sufficient length between services (whereas trying to use Wolverhampton station didn't seem to work). My main remaining concern is if there isn't a platform free at New Street for long enough (I couldn't work out platform occupation on real-time trains, given the size of the station). If no platforms at New Street is the problem then getting the ETCS 158s off the north Wales coast would have to wait until HS2 or the new chords allowing access to Moor Street are built.

The 150's should be more than sufficient to cover what has been coined the non core Valley Lines, Cariff to Gloucester, Abergavenny stopper, Swansea to Pembroke Dock, Heart of Wales, Wrexham to Bidston, Conway Valley etc.

158 fleet can be concentrated Mid Wales/Shropshire. But they will need some new Long Distance DMU's.
New 'long distance DMUs' from where? Nobody seems to have a suitable design at present; the CAF mark 5 LHCS looks to be the only regional-express / intercity option available for diesel routes at present (Hitachi's AT-300/IEP order book looks full into 2020).

As for 150s; urrgh! Most of the routes you listed are journies over 1hr, for which a 150 is not suitable unless you are less than 4ft tall (that might be an exaggeration, but only a slight one; my grandmother has complained in the past and I'm pretty sure she's less than 5ft). The surburan door layout is not appropriate for about half those routes too, and you seem to have missed out what rolling stock Fishguard and Milford Haven would see altogether.
 

jamess

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Feedback from the TfW consultation events from contacts in SARPA.

"the recent (WG) Enterprise and Learning Committee meeting in Shrewsbury was very useful 8 out of 10, the TfW not so 4 out of 10, ELC knew what it was talking about".

"9 people attended Aberystwyth meeting one of them was carer for a wheelchair user who said nothing, neither did the wheelchair user, was he at the right meeting?"

Aled Roberts is the Arriva note taker at these events an ex AM (Labour??) Arriva also have Eluned Parrot another ex AM in their entourage.

"We had fun and criticized ATW and WG knowing that they could only sit their and make notes about it"

Other news

Someones realized that relocating ATW staff from Penarth House to Pontypridd will invoke relocation packages with not an inconsiderable number still on BR T & C's . The cost is being calculated so the Minister can choke on it.

"ATW have paid for wifi to be installed into its entire 150,158 & 175 fleet read what you like into that" source in Arriva. Same source mentioned Cardiff to Liverpool via Halton Curve....

Carno Station Action Group reckon they have done the homework on the timetable graphs and with current 12 a day service 7 or 8 could stop at Carno (i await evidence to be forwarded) however if hourly service started maybe only 6 a day could be achieved.

"Run like a focus group being asked about changes of healthcare legislation" which seems to be the work background of TfW people running the events.

Eluned is only a contractor to gather information and will not be on the team for much longer I have been advised.

Penarth House? Do you mean St Mary's?

Regarding the wifi, apparently it was very heavily subsidised by the DfT, as are all wifi installs on trains.
 

Chester1

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Something like that. I managed to find the rules of the plan (or is it rules of the route?) on Network Rail's website and got the signalling headways. Those were 5 minutes at most, with most of the route being less than that, so I went onto Real Time Trains and thought it looked like there were gaps of sufficient length between services (whereas trying to use Wolverhampton station didn't seem to work). My main remaining concern is if there isn't a platform free at New Street for long enough (I couldn't work out platform occupation on real-time trains, given the size of the station). If no platforms at New Street is the problem then getting the ETCS 158s off the north Wales coast would have to wait until HS2 or the new chords allowing access to Moor Street are built.

New 'long distance DMUs' from where? Nobody seems to have a suitable design at present; the CAF mark 5 LHCS looks to be the only regional-express / intercity option available for diesel routes at present (Hitachi's AT-300/IEP order book looks full into 2020).

As for 150s; urrgh! Most of the routes you listed are journies over 1hr, for which a 150 is not suitable unless you are less than 4ft tall (that might be an exaggeration, but only a slight one; my grandmother has complained in the past and I'm pretty sure she's less than 5ft). The surburan door layout is not appropriate for about half those routes too, and you seem to have missed out what rolling stock Fishguard and Milford Haven would see altogether.

Mark Vs are likely to cost too much. W&B has become the franchise which gets dumped with old rolling stock. Id be surprised if the franchise gets any brand new trains but would get new trams if a light rail is chosen for Cardiff. I diagree with having anymore than a daily Holyhead-Cardiff service but its going to happen and I think it should at least be a genuine express service with line speed increases, limited stop and 5 carriages with a first class or Chiltern style business zone. Meridians and Voyagers will be available from 2023 and 2026. A cheap one power door only upgrade of loco hauled Mark III sets would work until then. The current two sets could have an extra coach added, as could the third set which won't be needed for Manchester and North Wales extra services once Northern starts its Chester-Victoria-Bradford service. 7 more sets shouldnt be difficult to obtain in 2019.
 

northwichcat

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The current two sets could have an extra coach added, as could the third set which won't be needed for Manchester and North Wales extra services once Northern starts its Chester-Victoria-Bradford service.

Don't forget there won't be a Chester to Bradford service departing Chester between 07:30 and 08:30 or one departing Manchester for Chester between 17:00 and 18:00 as at those times it'll run to Ellesmere Port instead with the W&B franchise continuing to operate their peak time extras between Chester and Manchester.
 

Dai Corner

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Eluned is only a contractor to gather information and will not be on the team for much longer I have been advised.

Penarth House? Do you mean St Mary's?

Regarding the wifi, apparently it was very heavily subsidised by the DfT, as are all wifi installs on trains.

The WiFi on ATW trains was paid for by fines levied on Network Rail for missing punctuality according to this press release from HM Government. Some other TOCs have it as a franchise requirement, so arguably paid for by the DfT through bigger subsidies or smaller premium payments.

Rail passengers will benefit from free wi-fi on trains across England and Wales from 2017, Rail Minister Claire Perry announced today (11 February 2015).

Train operators are being asked to set how they will meet the commitment to provide this important service for passengers. All train operators bidding for new franchises and direct award agreements will have to include this specification in their bid.

Where there is no new franchise agreement due in the next 2 years, almost £50 million of funding will be released from the Department for Transport to ensure wi-fi is available on selected services from 2017. The operators in this group are:

Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern (TSGN)
Southeastern
Chiltern
Arriva Trains Wales.
Rail Minister Claire Perry said:

I am determined to improve journeys for rail passengers. Free wi-fi is a priority for many as being able to keep up with work, connect with friends or even check the latest journey information online helps make rail travel more productive.

We are investing record amounts in the rail network as part of our long-term economic plan, and this investment, coupled with major works such as the Thameslink programme, new Intercity Express trains and the Northern Hub, will ensure that passengers will soon have a railway fit for the 21st century.

Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander said:

As someone who regularly travels from the north of Scotland around the country, I appreciate the value of fast, cheap internet connections on trains for both leisure and business travellers. That’s why the government is earmarking around £50 million to provide free wi-fi on trains; this and our other franchising improvements mean that nearly three-quarters of rail journeys will be made on trains with wi-fi provision.

The department has challenged rail industry operators to begin installing equipment as soon as possible to deliver wi-fi by 2017.

The operators will now work with the department to develop detailed proposals identifying the most appropriate services and routes to benefit. Funding will be awarded subject to satisfactory proposals being received from TSGN, Southeastern, Chiltern, and Arriva Trains Wales.

Some operators have already installed equipment to provide improved mobile coverage on-board their trains, or are in the process of doing so. By targeting the investment at franchises that would otherwise have no immediate plans to introduce wi-fi, the government is ensuring that as many passengers as possible benefit.

The £47.8 million funding is money that Network Rail has been required to return to the government for missing punctuality targets set by the Office of Rail Regulation. It is the first time such money has been reinvested into improvements targeted at passengers.

Out of the £53.1 million total penalty against Network Rail, £5.3 million has been allocated to the Scottish government, in line with the proportion of the penalty paid by Network Rail for late train running in Scotland.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/free-wi-fi-to-help-rail-commuters-stay-connected
 

Bletchleyite

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New 'long distance DMUs' from where? Nobody seems to have a suitable design at present; the CAF mark 5 LHCS looks to be the only regional-express / intercity option available for diesel routes at present (Hitachi's AT-300/IEP order book looks full into 2020).

Unless you're obsessed with end doors, there are more designs than that available - Class 172 might be an option, as might the Stadler FLIRT.
 

The Planner

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Carno Station Action Group reckon they have done the homework on the timetable graphs and with current 12 a day service 7 or 8 could stop at Carno (i await evidence to be forwarded) however if hourly service started maybe only 6 a day could be achieved.

I wouldnt mind seeing that either as the down train gets to Talerddig first and a Carno stop will add a good 3 minutes in.
 

Rhydgaled

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Unless you're obsessed with end doors, there are more designs than that available - Class 172 might be an option, as might the Stadler FLIRT.
I suppose you could say I'm "obsessed with end doors", have been ever since we sent my brother to Nottingham on XC and he came back and told me "the doors were in the wrong place". Class 172s are therefore not suitable for regional/regional-express/intercity services.

The FLIRT with only one door per coach (but I don't know how long the vehicles are) MIGHT be ok as there is perhaps not the space robbed for standees as there is on a suburban unit. However, I don't know how full Stadler's order book is, and the GA fleet of FLIRTs isn't due until 2019 (with one 170 actually leased into 2020 according to Porterbrook's website). Stadler might not be able to produce any more by the all-important 2020 deadline (if that wasn't such a problem, mark 4s could be an option as they'll be released soon after). Also the FLIRT does not have UEGs, which if you want to run the railway in the interests of passengers should be required on new builds if multiple working is intended or at all likely in the lifetime of the units.
 

Sparks807Evo

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Unless you're obsessed with end doors, there are more designs than that available - Class 172 might be an option, as might the Stadler FLIRT.

Very true - Stadler FLIRTs would work well and of course I wouldn't rule out Bombardier making a return to the DMU market. A recent article (March) in RAIL had a visit to Bombardier and an interview hinted at the potential for this and Bi-Modes. The 172 design is ideal, so if it could be developed further into a Bi-Mode or compliant engines fitted, it would be excellent in replacing some of the mid-range DMUs.
 

Rhydgaled

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Very true - Stadler FLIRTs would work well and of course I wouldn't rule out Bombardier making a return to the DMU market. A recent article (March) in RAIL had a visit to Bombardier and an interview hinted at the potential for this and Bi-Modes. The 172 design is ideal, so if it could be developed further into a Bi-Mode or compliant engines fitted, it would be excellent in replacing some of the mid-range DMUs.
A bi-mode version of the 172/2 or 172/3, IF it had a suitable interior, would be good for the outer-suburban services (eg. Cardiff-Cheltenham and possibly Wrexham Central - Liverpool if it has a third rail mode) but NOT regional/regional-express/intercity services as alot of the routes on the W&B franchise are.
 

Sparks807Evo

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A bi-mode version of the 172/2 or 172/3, IF it had a suitable interior, would be good for the outer-suburban services (eg. Cardiff-Cheltenham and possibly Wrexham Central - Liverpool if it has a third rail mode) but NOT regional/regional-express/intercity services as alot of the routes on the W&B franchise are.

Yeah if the interior was done right would be suitable for those - to be honest I've got no complaints about the current arrangement. If you put tables at the bays/seatbacks and better vestible partitions that'd be adequate. If there was the strutural capability to put the passenger doors at the ends as opposed to the traditional 170/172 design, then that would make for an excellent passenger environment. Would be similar to a 175/158 standard then.
 
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