Gold card discount on CrossCountry Cambridge to Ely

[arb]

Is an Annual Gold Card valid for getting a discount on Cambridge to Ely fares when using CrossCountry?

National Rail Enquiries suggests that I don't get a discounted fare on this route when using CrossCountry services, but I do get the discount for other operators.

I initially wondered if this meant that the Gold Card wasn't valid on CrossCountry at all, but it is according to the map at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Gold Card Dgm Key.pdf, and, further, National Rail Enquiries *will* offer me the discount on CrossCountry trains between Cambridge and Stansted Airport.

Is this a glitch in NRE, or am I missing a subtlety in the T&C's of the Gold Card?

 

[Starmill]

The Gold Card map shows that they are in the scheme for services between Stansted Airport and March. Seems fine to me.

 

[Fuzzytop]

The XC website only seems to discount tickets for their services Cambridge-Stansted and Audley End-Stansted. Cambridge-Audley End nope, Cambridge-Ely nope, Cambridge-March nope.

surely that can't be right?

 

[Ianno87]

It's a glitch in NRE.

Gold Card discounts have their normal validity on all XC services between Stansted, Audley End, Cambridge, Ely, Manea (when they stop) and March.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It's a glitch in NRE.

Or rather, a problem with the electronic restriction data which all journey planners (including the one behind NRE) must use. It's because all arrivals in Birmingham New Street (BHM) on CrossCountry services are barred from having the Gold Card discount applied, and the CrossCountry trains from Cambridge to Ely generally terminate at BHM. A similar issue applies to e.g. evening journeys from Reading to Oxford on CrossCountry trains that terminate at BHM; booking engines do not allow the Gold Card discount there either.

 

[arb]

Or rather, a problem with the electronic restriction data which all journey planners (including the one behind NRE) must use. It's because all arrivals in Birmingham New Street (BHM) on CrossCountry services are barred from having the Gold Card discount applied, and the CrossCountry trains from Cambridge to Ely generally terminate at BHM. A similar issue applies to e.g. evening journeys from Reading to Oxford on CrossCountry trains that terminate at BHM; booking engines do not allow the Gold Card discount there either.

Interesting. I was about to post to say that I've noticed that the problem is one-way only - that is NRE allows me to have the discount for an ELY-CBG single, but not for a CBG-ELY single. And that would concur with what you wrote above.

However ... I've found (on brfares.com) the electronic restriction you refer to: "Not valid to arrive BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET 0002–2359 on CrossCountry". And I can see that there's also a restriction for the other direction: "Not valid to depart BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET 0002–2359 on CrossCountry" (my emphasis on depart), so this doesn't tie up with what NRE is showing for CBG-ELY.

Which means my next obvious question is ... why does NRE allow the discount for ELY-CBG (checked with the 0952 ELY-CBG tomorrow, which starts from BHM at 0722), but not CBG-ELY?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Journey planners apply time restrictions generally only to the stations at which you board and alight a train, but they also apply arrival time restrictions to the ultimate destination of the train (which catches things like "not valid to arrive London before 11:00"). They don't apply departure restrictions to the ultimate origin of the train, and indeed that would be fairly unenforceable as a passenger can't be expected to know where their train started; it is not usually advertised anywhere, whereas the ultimate destination usually is.

 

[furlong]

And given their apparent lack of interest in fixing this class of problems (try getting a ticket for Reading to Oxford on the 19:45, destination Birmingham), it might be worth applying extra pressure by asking the ORR to open a criminal investigation under the consumer regulations. With the likes of VTEC introducing new ticket machines at stations that won't sell tickets any more unless they find a "valid" itinerary, it's becoming more important than ever that the TOCs comply with the law and cease providing systems for customers to use that provide false information about ticket validity and push people into buying more expensive tickets than necessary.

 

[Joe Paxton]

And given their apparent lack of interest in fixing this class of problems (try getting a ticket for Reading to Oxford on the 19:45, destination Birmingham), it might be worth applying extra pressure by asking the ORR to open a criminal investigation under the consumer regulations. With the likes of VTEC introducing new ticket machines at stations that won't sell tickets any more unless they find a "valid" itinerary, it's becoming more important than ever that the TOCs comply with the law and cease providing systems for customers to use that provide false information about ticket validity and push people into buying more expensive tickets than necessary.

This is the sphere of civil law.

 

[furlong]

This is the sphere of civil law.

Why do you think that? Read chapter 12 "Criminal Offences" of the OFT guidance (2008) for example - consider misleading actions, misleading omissions - where the ORR is a designated enforcer under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002 alongside the definition of professional diligence:

14.19 The CPRs define professional diligence as ‘the standard of special skill and care which a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers which is commensurate with either – (a) honest market practice in the trader’s field of activity, or (b) the general principle of good faith in the trader’s field of activity’. A simple way of understanding professional diligence would be to ask: ‘Is the trader acting to a standard that a reasonable person would expect?’

(Yes, it would probably be for the ORR to ask the OFT to pursue criminal aspects as per 12.1, after it had failed to persuade the TOCs to fall into line. But I'm guessing that if people went directly to the OFT, they'd be referred first to the ORR.)