30 Mar 23.34 Liverpool to Crewe

[rebmcr]

The 2334 is run by Crewe crews and they have never liked working this service as more often than not there are problems with passenger behaviour.

I don't like parts of my job either - how would it have any bearing on turning up to work?

If the unpleasantness happened during voluntary overtime, you would probably be less likely to volunteer.

 

[Holly]

Where do you end? However many you employ there will always be occasions when you have a lack of resources. Overstaffing also means increased costs/higher subsidy/lower premium payments/tax payers losing out. ...

The same could be said for coach drivers. But it isn't.
Somehow there is always a "spare" coach driver to be had.

The answer is to have spare trained drivers who do worthwhile duties other than driving part of their time. For example, drivers can work as guards when needed and guards can be trained as drivers.

 

[bb21]

The same could be said for coach drivers. But it isn't.
Somehow there is always a "spare" coach driver to be had.

Not always.

 

[miami]

If the unpleasantness happened during voluntary overtime, you would probably be less likely to volunteer.

Which gets back to the problem that the TOCs don't employ enough drivers. Almost 1 in 10 train cancellations (1 in 7 for LM) are due to a shortage of drivers. That's not a "bout of illness", it's chronic short staffing.

 

[northwichcat]

The same could be said for coach drivers. But it isn't.
Somehow there is always a "spare" coach driver to be had.

The answer is to have spare trained drivers who do worthwhile duties other than driving part of their time. For example, drivers can work as guards when needed and guards can be trained as drivers.

With coach companies if they are short they quite often contact a sister operator or a similar non-rival business in the event of a shortage. You might be aware that Walkers in Northwich are part of Holmeswood Coaches group, as are Bostocks in Congleton so it's not uncommon to see a Bostocks coach and driver on a Walkers contract. The same is true with Selwyns and Haytons.

Of course in the rail world Virgin Trains can't just loan a driver to EMT because the Virgin driver doesn't sign the EMT stock and the Virgin stock isn't able to run on the EMT routes.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

... and the Virgin stock isn't able to run on the EMT routes.

Well they could do Crewe-Stoke and Stockport-Liverpool (albeit via Chat Moss). With an awful lot of SDO you'd get there eventually

 

[PHILIPE]

With coach companies if they are short they quite often contact a sister operator or a similar non-rival business in the event of a shortage. You might be aware that Walkers in Northwich are part of Holmeswood Coaches group, as are Bostocks in Congleton so it's not uncommon to see a Bostocks coach and driver on a Walkers contract. The same is true with Selwyns and Haytons.

Of course in the rail world Virgin Trains can't just loan a driver to EMT because the Virgin driver doesn't sign the EMT stock and the Virgin stock isn't able to run on the EMT routes.

Even if they could, the TOCs wouldn't want to pay for it.

 

[childwallblues]

Better answer to the problem would be for the 2334 to run non stop between LPY and CRE!

 

[northwichcat]

Better answer to the problem would be for the 2334 to run non stop between LPY and CRE!

Which will breach the franchise agreement.

TOCs don't make calls on late/very early services if they don't have to, so that they minimise the chance of them having to run replacement buses during engineering works.

 

[childwallblues]

Which will breach the franchise agreement.

TOCs don't make calls on late/very early services if they don't have to, so that they minimise the chance of them having to run replacement buses during engineering works.

That is true

 

[All Line Rover]

The last Liverpool to Crewe service was cancelled last (Saturday) night. The 22:04.

 

[philthetube]

The same could be said for coach drivers. But it isn't.
Somehow there is always a "spare" coach driver to be had.

The answer is to have spare trained drivers who do worthwhile duties other than driving part of their time. For example, drivers can work as guards when needed and guards can be trained as drivers.

When working as a coach driver I was often hired in to do other companies jobs, using my firms coach, sometimes because of driver shortages.

Also try doing a survey of rail replacement bus drivers, you will find that many have spent Monday to Friday in their Day, TOC,s do not have the chance to employ part timers.

 

[185143]

The last Liverpool to Crewe service was cancelled last (Saturday) night. The 22:04.

On Grand National day, with Merseyrail and Arriva Rail North industrial action too...

 

[northwichcat]

On Grand National day, with Merseyrail and Arriva Rail North industrial action too...

Could have meant extra replacement buses needed to be sourced if they didn't want a big taxi bill.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Rest Day Working/Overtime has been a thing on the railways, and especially in my experience (15 years now) with Go-Via.

The thing is, there was always a certain amount going but never the reliance that there is now. Many companies have realised that to run on overtime is cheaper than to employ sufficient staff due to less pension contributions, less National Insurance etc... Many platform staff now belong to agencies, obviously the whole guard/OBS situation and so when people decide to take their time off to themselves, things tend to fall down very quickly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reliability of the Liverpool to Brum service is appalling. As it seems to be a crewing issue, reducing it to hourly 8 car would seem to be sensible if it can be platformed at Brum.

Long term it could do with moving to Northern.

 

[northwichcat]

The reliability of the Liverpool to Brum service is appalling. As it seems to be a crewing issue, reducing it to hourly 8 car would seem to be sensible if it can be platformed at Brum.

I don't think franchises should be able to run below the required frequency because of a 'staffing shortage' that are responsible for. I think the penalty for cancelling a service due to a staff shortage should be at least double the cost of operating the service then operators will decide to employ a sufficient number of staff.

 

[6Gman]

The reliability of the Liverpool to Brum service is appalling. As it seems to be a crewing issue, reducing it to hourly 8 car would seem to be sensible if it can be platformed at Brum.

Long term it could do with moving to Northern.

New Street would be the least of the platforming issues!

 

[the101]

The reliability of the Liverpool to Brum service is appalling. As it seems to be a crewing issue, reducing it to hourly 8 car would seem to be sensible if it can be platformed at Brum.

I don't know why it is happening, but from some of the recent journeys that I have made on LM's Brum to Liverpool services one could be forgiven for thinking that the bad old days of Central Trains are returning. Filthy trains, toilets often out of use, regular lateness and cancellations too frequently. The awful 3+2 seating units also appear too often for a journey of that length.

As for service level, a half-hourly frequency would be very welcome on Sunday afternoons to match the rest of the week, rather than hourly.

 

[Southern Dvr]

A lot of people are suggesting Southern is back to its Connex days too!

 

[bb21]

I don't think franchises should be able to run below the required frequency because of a 'staffing shortage' that are responsible for. I think the penalty for cancelling a service due to a staff shortage should be at least double the cost of operating the service then operators will decide to employ a sufficient number of staff.

There are severe penalties for TOCs cancelling services for reasons within their control. These decisions will not be taken lightly. If a train can run, it will run.

It may not be highly visible as these are not applied on a service-by-service basis, but there is definitely an overall measure under scrutiny at all TOCs.