Tried to buy a ticket, was interviewed under caution

[AlterEgo]

Explain?

It's not really keeping a cautious distance by claiming the OP is lying and that you know the true facts of the matter, and then declining to expand further.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The train from Montpelier was 1 minute late http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20735/2017/03/20, so you had less than 10 minutes to buy a ticket, which may or may not have been enough time (someone with more experience at Bristol TM could comment on this).

A couple of days late I know, but I can confirm at some times 10 minutes certainly isn't enough to buy a ticket. I travel between Oldfield Park at Cardiff Central a fair bit, changing at Bristol, and on more than a few occasions the 15 minutes I usually have at Temple Meads is only just about enough to buy a ticket if the guard doesn't come around on the first train.

queueing at Bristol (which should have taken no more than 5 minutes if this was defined as a peak time)

Out of curiosity, where is that defined? because 5 minutes at peak time at Temple Meads is so insanely optimistic that it may as well be a joke. Even more so barrier side at Temple Meads where there is often only one member of staff selling tickets.

Why didn't you buy a ticket from the guard on the train from Montpelier to Bristol TM?

The journey is between 10 and 15 mins, with two intermediate stops where the guard has to stop selling tickets to do the doors and dispatch process. It is very likely the guard simply didn't have chance to go through the whole train (it is pretty damn common for that to happen in my experience).

I know there always seem to be queues there, but does anyone know exactly what the average waiting time in the 'infamous queues at Temple Meads' actually is please?

Yes, there is a serious point to asking the question

In terms of inside the barriers (so platform side), if a "local" train (one that stops at unmanned stations, so I am including the stopping trains from / to Bath and Gloucester here too) has just arrived then it can easily be 10 / 15 minutes in total from getting off your train, getting over to platform 3, queuing up, actually buying a ticket and then getting to the platform for your next train. And not forgetting there are occasions when multiple local services arrive in a short period of time so making the situation worse.

 

[najaB]

It's not really keeping a cautious distance by claiming the OP is lying and that you know the true facts of the matter, and then declining to expand further.

RPI may have insinuated that the OP isn't being less than truthful but I haven't seen anything which could be classed as a direct assertion that they have lied.

If the OP is actually being judicious with the truth, hopefully they will take the posts as a warning that the TOC has information that has not, as yet, been posted to the thread.

 

[RPI]

RPI may have insinuated that the OP isn't being less than truthful but I haven't seen anything which could be classed as a direct assertion that they have lied.

If the OP is actually being judicious with the truth, hopefully they will take the posts as a warning that the TOC has information that has not, as yet, been posted to the thread.

What I've said is that in order to get useful advice the OP should say exactly what happened

 

[Master29]

Explain?

Your insinuating something obviously...

 

[rs101]

What I've said is that in order to get useful advice the OP should say exactly what happened

So are you saying they've not done that so far?

 

[CheesyChips]

Perhaps this whole thing would work better if the discourse was a little less cryptic. It feels like a conversation with Sir Humphrey Appleby.

 

[Tetchytyke]

What I've said is that in order to get useful advice the OP should say exactly what happened

Which, of course, is an insinuation that you know the OP has been judicious with the truth.

They may be, they may not be, but we can only give advice on what the OP tells us. If the OP chooses to not tell us something then it may make them feel better but it won't be accurate advice. There's no need to cast aspersions. Take the OP at face value and chill: it won't be us who suffer if the OP has lied, will it?

 

[father_jack]

There are very long queues at Bristol Temple Meads with passengers waiting to buy tickets after local trains (I.e Severn Beach line) arrive. Usually just one person selling tickets with an avantix machine too. ( Not sure about the morning peak)

There are usually 3 or 4 selling tickets at the excess desk on arrival of that Beach Line train.

XC are phasing in the new Star Mobile (with lengthy paper tickets) so the machinery may not have been familiar to the guard but something that's often done onboard when someone is leaving at a barriered station where a machine didn't work onboard would be a little note (often on the back of a blank ticket !) from the guard explaining.........

But finally and this is only an observation and far from an allegation about the OP- on the avantix a lot of people got in the habit of "paying" onboard but with no money in the bank because they knew the system wasn't connected until the PDA was docked

 

[WelshBluebird]

There are usually 3 or 4 selling tickets at the excess desk on arrival of that Beach Line train.

Not saying that is never the case, but certainly I have never seen more than two people selling tickets at the excess desk at Bristol (actually I lie, once, and that was when there were Rugby World Cup games on in Cardiff last year), and in my experience usually it is just one. Granted my experiences are after coming off a service from Oldfield Park or Keynsham in the evening peaks so may not be representative of the experience of coming off a Severn Beach line service in the morning peak. But it certainly is easily possible to get to Temple Meads without having had a chance to buy on board and then not have enough time to buy at the excess fares desk.

 

[AnkleBoots]

I'm not directly involved in this one but

Intriguing. I like it when proper staff contribute to these threads in the midst of less-informed discussion and speculation by some others (such as myself!).

I would speculate that the void card receipts are a red flag given that onboard transactions are not usually online.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I no longer live in Cardiff, but understand that all Valley Lines stations now have card-only TVMs

That most certainly is not the case.

It may be true for stations close to Cardiff, but not for others (e.g the upper valley stations on the Treherbert line from Treherbert to Dinas Rhondda do not have any ticketing facilities at all).

If you are making a connection at Cardiff Central, the situation has improved slightly with the new excess fares desk that is part of the ticket office at the rear of the station. This is usually better manned than the old excess fares desk was. Though there are still times when the queues from that can easily stretch way back down the subway towards the steps for platforms 3/4.

 

[js32]

Just to let everyone know - they didn't accept submission of further evidence without going to court, but they did reduce it to a standard penalty fare, which I paid rather than take the risk/deal with the hassle. Thanks for all your help and I hope this thread helps others.

 

[najaB]

Just to let everyone know - they didn't accept submission of further evidence without going to court, but they did reduce it to a standard penalty fare, which I paid rather than take the risk/deal with the hassle. Thanks for all your help and I hope this thread helps others.

Thanks for letting us know. I'm not much pleased by the fact you ended up having to pay for what appears to be the TOC's failing, but I also get that certainty of it being resolved trumps the risk that comes with having your day in court.

 

[SA_900]

Just to let everyone know - they didn't accept submission of further evidence without going to court, but they did reduce it to a standard penalty fare, which I paid rather than take the risk/deal with the hassle. Thanks for all your help and I hope this thread helps others.

Appalling. Anyway having accepted the penalty fare I would now seek to have it refunded.

 

[Bantamzen]

If the financial matter is settled in the eyes of the TOC, and no risk of court action pending then I would suggest that the OP move to publicise this issue via social media. If the facts offered are correct, this is a failing of the TOC to make reasonable arrangements for them to buy a ticket without incurring long delays to their journey.

Its by far from the only possible situation in which a passenger might find themselves unable to properly buy a ticket, and if TOCs are to be more aggressive in dealing with such situations then it needs to be raised and brought to the public's attention. Social media, as much as it is lamented by some is a useful tool when in dispute with a company. Unable to hide behind the relative safety of a customer services complaint, issues raised on social media play out to allow following and raise awareness so that people in future are not caught out. I am all in favour of revenue protection, but when a TOC makes it difficult for people to buy they should not be threatening court action or issuing fines.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Just to let everyone know - they didn't accept submission of further evidence without going to court, but they did reduce it to a standard penalty fare, which I paid rather than take the risk/deal with the hassle. Thanks for all your help and I hope this thread helps others.

For me, this tale is just another disgusting example of a little person abusing their little bit of power... I find it odd that the fact you asked for a ticket all the way from the Bristol area wasn't sufficient evidence of your desire to pay your way. If you had claimed to have come from St James' Park and the guard hadn't reached you, you might well have got away with it...

Can you tell us exactly what you were required to pay in the end?

 

[MichaelAMW]

I am all in favour of revenue protection, but when a TOC makes it difficult for people to buy they should not be threatening court action or issuing fines.

What bugs me is that there was no revenue to protect! The OP was offering to pay their fare all the way from their origin station.

 

[Mag_seven]

Appalling. Anyway having accepted the penalty fare I would now seek to have it refunded.

Agreed - the OP seems to have given in to TOC bully-boy behavior.

 

[Whopper]

How can they offer a pf? Montpelier is not a pf station and Bristol Temple Meads and Exeter St David's are in different pf schemes.

 

[jkdd77]

If the OP has received and paid an *actual* PF, rather than a sum in lieu, then it is clearly not valid, and I would seek to appeal it, both formally and informally.

The entire incident, along with similar examples, shows just how biased the system is towards the TOCs, and how they can use the threat of prosecution to extort ransoms from innocent passengers.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, I would appeal to the Penalty Fare Adjudicator on the basis that the PF was erroneously applied to a journey made from a non PF station. That is a basic rule: to operate a PF scheme, the TOC is under an obligation to provide and maintain adequate ticket buying facilities at all PF stations, i.e. not a system which relies on the conductor selling tickets, which is the case here! Some of the posts here potentially are implying that the Severn Beach line is a well-known 'loophole', but it is always open to the TOC to fix it by installing proper ticket facilities on it.

 

[najaB]

Yes, I would appeal to the Penalty Fare Adjudicator on the basis that the PF was erroneously applied to a journey made from a non PF station.

Assuming, of course, that the term 'penalty fare' wasn't being used colloquially and it wasn't actually an out of court settlement.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Yes, I would appeal to the Penalty Fare Adjudicator on the basis that the PF was erroneously applied to a journey made from a non PF station. .

I never cease to be amazed by how quickly discussion in these threads moves away from what a poster has actually said so that the 'ifs' & 'buts' quickly become treated as 'fact' by those who don't read the original post clearly.

Assuming, of course, that the term 'penalty fare' wasn't being used colloquially and it wasn't actually an out of court settlement.

najaB has it spot on as usual

There is no mention of a Penalty Fare in the OPs post and an appeal to IAS or IPFAS has no relevance here.

These are the 2 main points that the OP made clear, taken from the start of this thread.

the man working at the barrier (a GWR employee) set out to completely intimidate me by insisting on a long interview, which he recorded, and taking my name and address details to pass on to the prosecution department.

I've now got home after a week away at work to find a letter containing a pre-court settlement offer asking me to pay £111.50.

It seems clear from that, that the OP was reported for an allegation of either breach of Byelaw or 'intent to avoid a fare' and has been given an opportunity to enter into a voluntary arrangement to pay an administrative settlement to dispose of the matter.

Whether or not it was justified is not the point I'm making, but it these are the facts that have been reported by the OP

If the OP does not wish to accept that non-obligatory option, it seems GWR would normally proceed to issue a Summons and the OP has the right to challenge the evidence in the usual way

That is not to say that the OP should not respond to GWR letter.

.

 

[sheff1]

There is no mention of a Penalty Fare in the OPs post

Well, no mention of a "Penalty Fare" with capitals but quite clearly a mention of "standard penalty fare":

Just to let everyone know - they didn't accept submission of further evidence without going to court, but they did reduce it to a standard penalty fare, which I paid rather than take the risk/deal with the hassle.

I hope we have not now reached the point where the use, or not, of capital letters is considered to alter what a lay person has said !

 

[najaB]

I hope we have not now reached the point where the use, or not, of capital letters is considered to alter what a lay person has said !

No, we haven't. But we often see posters saying that the TOC has fined them or that they've been issued a penalty fare when it fact it was a unpaid fare notice.

So I wouldn't take it as gospel that they were issued a real penalty fare - especially since (as Gerald Fiennes pointed out) the station they travelled from isn't part of a Penalty Fares scheme.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Unless we know the amount the OP had to pay, we're all just guessing. It could be an Unpaid Fares Notice for the amount of the ticket, or it could be one of the standard admin penalties (the infamous "Penalty Fake") that most TOCs now seem to have.

And if it is a UFN, there's no need to get any knickers in any twists: the OP still owed the fare!